To think you tell someone pre going on a date

[floralarrangement]

that you have a 2 year old and a 4 year old?!

Just got back from a brunch date and this was casually brought up. I feel like this is a HUGE deal, especially due to the ages. I don't have children and don't want to date someone who does. I'm 28 so maybe I'll change my mind on this later in life.

I feel like he didn't tell me (and probably other women) in advance as a way of getting dates from people who otherwise would've said no. Is this too harsh? For those of you who do OLD, do you tell people in advance/put it on your profile?

We work together (huge organisation - didn't know of him before & none of my friends do) which meant I felt pressured have a good date with him because I hate awkwardness. I already have one ex-boyfriend at work which I find stressful, I'd rather not make it a pattern with multiple people I have to avoid for one reason or another

Im nearly 49 and have never used dating apps Im child free by choice. Im appalled by the casual sexism towards child free by choice women being shown here Shallow for not wanting to be a step parent and the mooting of the assumption that men will think you only want a one night stand.

Now if i was single and was using one of these apps i would not want to date a man with kids or grandkids come to that because of the amount of grand parents being expected to do childcare.

And a step MOTHER would be expected to do much more of the grunt work than a step FATHER because its women who are still expected to do most or nearly all of the childcare. Ditto for a step grandmother.

@floralarrangement

Then why - pray tell - did he deliberately avoid telling me he had children? Why go to all the trouble of omitting the details about his kids if he was completely innocent to this?

I’ve never said he is innocent. I agree he didn’t tell you about having kids. I agree that he should have mentioned it when you spoke before.

My point is about your belief that belonging to the same social group should automatically mean that anyone with kids (& thereby the transgressors of this group) should tell prospective daters upfront if they have kids.

And clearly this simplistic view of how things should be (to you) doesn’t play out IRL.

He didn’t tell you because he lied! As people tend to on OLD for obvious reasons!

But your reliance that he should be the one to tell you & that at no part should you be expected to ask - because it makes you look weird - means you’ll continue to experience this going forwards.

If this is the first time someone hasn’t turned out to have been who they appeared to be - then you are in for a shock!

Its the problem partly of OLD. And how believing you are from similar backgrounds/groups etc to people that can lead you to make gross assumptions about people that are often not true.

Just keep an open mind!

Surely the date is to get to know someone?

Can't a date just be about having a nice evening? They won't all progress, but that doesn't mean they're a waste of time.

He should have mentioned it. Kids are a dealbreaker for so many people and he would know that.

There are loads of decent child free guys out there, don’t let him put you off.

@MissNothing1991

at the point of dating someone no, they aren’t a stepparent. But if they don’t ever want to be one, what’s the point of dating? Your relationship wont go anywhere! Unless you’re hoping they will change their minds, which isn’t fair on either of you. It’s a bit like dating someone who says they never want to get married and have children when you do - you don’t have similar longterm goals/aims. It’s not personal about your daughter.

@pixie5121
Omg I cannot actually believe you have just called a pp child an obstacle! How dare you . So my children are obstacles then . That's absolutely the most bonkers thing I think I've ever seen on mn. You are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else but to call a child an obstacle to going out dating is fuckin ridiculous quite frankly.

Yes.

I'm sorry your delusion and entitlement lets you think otherwise, but plenty of people will consider a child an obstacle for very good reasons.

Even if you don't introduce a partner to your child until it's 'serious', you're still a mother, aren't you? You're responsible for her, all the time. You can't just take off on a last minute spontaneous trip to Paris. You can't turn your phone off when staying at someone's house and just enjoy being with them. Your child is always going to be number one. And because you have to think about her at all times, so, by extension, does anyone you date.

It's not shallow for someone to prefer not to date people who have to deal with a child and all the obligations and responsibilities that come with it.

I'm not delusional or entitled thank you very much . The fact you called an innocent child an obstacle tells me all about the sort of person you are.

You are. You think people are shallow for not wanting to date you because you have a child. That's delusional and entitled beyond belief.

Your child is your issue, not anyone else's. Nobody on a dating app is obliged to overlook your 'beautiful little angle' if they are not interested in single mothers.

@ThreeonaHill

Of course - I actually have more male friends than female for the first time, because there have been many dates that while I haven't wanted a relationship with them (or VV), we had great fun and stayed friends.

But at this point in my life, it's really hard to find time and I'm seriously looking for a partner. I can maybe do one date every couple of weeks, normally after work when, let's be honest, it's a huge effort to put on nice clothes and make small talk with a stranger.

In this context, to meet someone and within the first couple of minutes (whilst you're taking first sip of a drink) they casually mention something that makes it a non-starter, with a wide eyed "oh I didn't I tell you?!" is really crap and disappointing.

It's not about children specifically - it would be exactly the same if they had a partner and were looking for a polyamorous thing but hadn't bothered to mention it (this has also happened to me )

See I’m looking for a serious relationship and marriage etc so anyone looking for the same wouldn’t want to be a step parent in that case, it’s fine if you’re only looking for causal though

I do feel like there's only this level of outrage when it's hitting a nerve somewhere!

Yes, you either have to get involved with the family or hardly ever see the person you're supposed to be 'seeing' if you can only see them when the child is with the other parent. Of course it can make things more complicated.
(As can all sorts of things like having a job with anti-social hours or having a dog/horse).

Absolutely not the case here thanks!

Yes - and with someone who has a 2 and 4 year old with them 50% of the time - clearly there's going to be (at some point in time) a huge level of involvement if you want a serious relationship like living together, marriage, children of your own.

@pixie5121.

I don't think anyone is shallow for not wanting to date me at all it's personal preference isn't it. And whoever i date wouldn't meet my children for a significant amount of time of I wished to proceed to relationship stage. At the end of the day the first date is hardly entering into relationship territory, he told op on the first date it's then on the op if she decides to proceed or not .The same goes for anyone else.

Not directed at you specifically @LicoricePizza !

the fact that children are a dealbreaker for quite a lot of people is hardly unknown. Why waste someone’s time, and your own, by not divulging that information before a first date? A first date isn’t a relationship, no, but it’s still valuable time.

@pixie5121 I'm one of those who are probably sounding defensive but I'm not actually defending him personally. I agree it's a nonsense to talk for two weeks about daily mundane things like trips to the woods etc and fail to mention the fact he had his two children there.

And I'm certainly not taking this stance because I do it myself. Most people with children who've disagreed have all said they mention it themselves! I'm also gonna assume that for most single parents (the ones who want more than casual anyway) it's pretty hard not to because OLD is far less of this bright / breezy / witty / trying to look fun AT ALL TIMES (dare I say games) and a bit more about trying to find out what life stage they're at and what they're looking for in future?

And to your second point - it's the same in that PP (and OP) don't want to state it outright because they don't want to be judged or put into categories?! That's literally what the poster I was responding to said which op totally agreed with.

They think if they put it on their profile or make it clear from the first initial messages they might get put into categories because of their choices, so they won't do it, but they believe they have every right to put other people into categories for their choices?

Of course everyone has the right to put people into categories and rule people out for whatever reason they want. It's not unreasonable to have hard-no's (especially when it comes to children!). The unreasonable part is expecting other people to somehow know what those are going to be and offer them up like some kind of disclaimer without you having to ask.

And that's literally what you are insinuating in your response to me -- that it's generally seen as a negative to state what you don't want, so you definitely shouldn't have to do that, because god forbid people view you negatively and make false assumptions and premature decisions based on your choices.

But of course other people need to allow themselves to be seen negatively and judged prematurely (possibly putting off people they might have had potential with otherwise), all to save you the massive inconvenience of asking very simple but important questions like 'do you have children?' or 'do you drive' or 'so do you live alone then?'

Your profile gets to be all light and fun and witty because you're special but other people have to have disclaimers because you don't want people to know about your disclaimers so you can appear light and fun and witty. I'm dead 😭😂😂

You really do need to mention it yourself OP. That’s the whole point of the ‘children?’ question most dating sites ask. Everyone needs to be clear here tbh.

Kids ARE obstacles to dating. So are things like shift work, money problems, already being married. But even those things can be changed - a parent is always going to be a parent and everything that entails is going to be the biggest obstacle ever.

Also, if you write a list of things you DON’T want on your profile as suggested you could come across as negative. “I want a man with no kids, non-smoker, non-ugly” 😁

I wouldn’t mention my child on an online dating profile or before I met someone. I need to filter out anyone who’s more interested in my child than they are in me. This approach might also filter out some of the cock-lodgers.

However, if someone wrote in their profile that they didn’t want to date anyone with kids, I wouldn’t waste their time (or mine).

But light and fun are everything when you’re dating @ringalingling - especially in your 20s! That playful flirtation is what makes it enjoyable rather than a slog or questionnaire - what’s your job? Got kids? Do you have siblings? God, shoot me now. I’d feel like I was conversing with an 8 year old penpal.

Doesn’t mean it can’t lead anywhere. I met my spouse online and most of my friends did too.

OP’s guy should have brought it up casually. Didn’t need to be a big deal at all but it was a lie by omission.

What would you say if they asked you whether you have children in one of their early messages?

No, I disagree. It's up to him to mention something so fundamental.
Also, as I mentioned, the website I trialled had completely the opposite effect with the children question. When I clicked that I didn't want them, I could only see the profiles of men who already had children (because presumably they were the only men who'd clicked that they didn't want children).