To think you tell someone pre going on a date

[floralarrangement]

that you have a 2 year old and a 4 year old?!

Just got back from a brunch date and this was casually brought up. I feel like this is a HUGE deal, especially due to the ages. I don't have children and don't want to date someone who does. I'm 28 so maybe I'll change my mind on this later in life.

I feel like he didn't tell me (and probably other women) in advance as a way of getting dates from people who otherwise would've said no. Is this too harsh? For those of you who do OLD, do you tell people in advance/put it on your profile?

We work together (huge organisation - didn't know of him before & none of my friends do) which meant I felt pressured have a good date with him because I hate awkwardness. I already have one ex-boyfriend at work which I find stressful, I'd rather not make it a pattern with multiple people I have to avoid for one reason or another

@Savemeplease.

Nobody is defending the guy. Pp like myself are merely stating that he doesn't have to disclose that information before a first date. A first date is hardly entering into a relationship is it.

I bet if you put on your dating profile “not interested in dating men with children” you would still get a number of men who either didn’t bother to read it properly or are arrogant enough to assume you’ll change your mind once they have dazzled you with their sparkling personalities!

Not the PP, but it is not unreasoable to state that for a 28 year old woman (which the thread is about), having a partner who already has children is more likely to be undesireable than it is to be desireable.

IME that's a bit of a nonsense assumption though? Early twenties and I might have agreed with you, but by late twenties I think a fair amount of women are thinking about children and wanting to settle down (and the ones who aren't but definitely want children at some point probably should be, as sadly evidenced by the vast amounts of threads on here from mid-30s women who either can't find a partner because the dating pool is at its smallest or are have found a partner but now struggling to conceive because they're years past peak fertility).

If I was 28 and knew I wanted children in the near future and there was two 30 year old men to choose from, I think I'd be more inclined to choose the single dad with his own house / car, a steady job, and a life already set up where weekends are family time and socialising is a Tuesday night 5aSide or Sunday morning at the golf range over the single guy who is flat sharing with 3 other people in a city centre and plans to spend next summer in Thailand.

I know my ex is in the first boat and has never struggled finding dates, but I guess they are probably not the type who want to have another 5-10 years building their career and living in short term lets between flat shares.

And I still maintain those types of women are getting less common in their late 20s and early 30s. What you tend to find is a lot of single women around 30 who want to settle down but can't because the male early 30s dating pool is made up of the two types I listed above (the single dads and the peter pans who don't have biological clocks). They're holding out for the rare unicorn who is living the life of the responsible single dad type (with the job and house and settled lifestyle) but without the children.

It's totally fair enough if you don't want to date single dads because you are years away from settling down yourself / don't want children / don't want somebody else's children / whatever reason you damn well please, but I totally disagree that the default for 28 year women is to find single father's undesirable. I can however see how someone who lives in London and is building their career as a lawyer for whom children are a far-off pipedream might definitely think that, but that's not the reality for most women.

Any thing that's a complete deal breaker for you,, you have the choice to mention it BEFORE the first date, to save wasting everybody's time.

If kids are a N0 NO, you should have said so before the date.

Think it's shallow to choose whether to date someone based on whether or not they have kids. I find it hurtful when men turn me down because of my one child.

Shallow really? For not wanting to be a step parent?!

No, it's not remotely daft.

Having a partner is in exactly the same category as having kids, in terms of huge, important life things that need to be mentioned. In fact, your example is daft. How can you compare a hobby or a political party to being responsible for two human beings?

Someone might love hunting but be prepared to give it up if they met a partner who really hated it. Someone might be a meat eater but be prepared to go vegetarian if the love of their life couldn't stomach meat.

You can't just make your kids disappear.

This is so hugely, enormously dishonest that it's a total no brainer. Anyone defending this behaviour needs to have a long hard look at their own morals and ethics. It is not OK to just edit your kids out of stories about what you did at the weekend and to purposely give the impression of being a young, free, single, childless guy because you're afraid you won't get dates otherwise.

What a fucking arsehole.

100% this. I think some people commenting have trouble comprehending that there might be a very different world outside their tiny little bubble.

It would just be fucking weird to randomly ask someone if they have kids if they haven't mentioned it at all on their profile and you've been having casual chats about what you've been up to. It would offend, or at the very least confuse, far more people than it would weed out those who are deliberately hiding their kids.

I'm nearly 37 and have been using apps on and off for about a decade. I have never, literally never, not once, been asked if I have children. The default is that you don't. Even at my age. This is how it is in professional London circles. You don't shoehorn in 'BTW do you have any kids?' when someone is telling you about the film shorts programme they've just seen or the craft beer place they went to.

Of course it isn't shallow. What a ridiculous thing to say.

When you have kids, you give up the privilege of being 'fun and breezy' on dating apps. You put your kids first, and that includes being honest about their existence and not lying in an attempt to get laid. If you can't manage that, then don't fucking have kids in your twenties. It's not hard.

I think you need to start asking early on before meeting if it's a deal breaker for you. Fool me once...

If you spoke to him before meeting up, can't you simply ask him if he has children?

Because maybe it's not a blanket thing? Maybe there could be a situation in which she'd consider dating a parent? Maybe she quite rightly and understandably doesn't want that to appear as if she never wants kids of her own? Why is it on OP to change her profile and not on the people being deliberately deceptive?

@floralarrangement

This is the problem with your argument.

You are perfectly entitled to not want to date a man with kids. But your refusal to acknowledge any part in the responsibility for information finding about each other is what is making you appear as others have said “entitled” or “narrow minded” or “immature”.

You’re saying that in your socio- demographic professional circle nobody has kids or are on their second marriages.

It is socially unacceptable, awkward & unusual to even ask such a question upfront because it would seem so out of left field because it is so at odds with the norms of that social group.

Therefore anyone transgressing this code by a) being an outlier & actually having kids
is responsible for sharing this at the outset so as not to inconvenience you when your time could be better spent concentrating meeting someone who does fit these universally acknowledged criteria (for this particular social group).

And because he knows this to be true too - because he himself subscribes to this social group & its rules, broke the code by not telling you upfront.

He, despite being a total stranger, innately knew that you being from this homogenous group, would

knew I would not have gone on a date with him if I'd known this advanced

because* *
This man works in my field (and in my company), he can see my dating profile.

and

He knew I wouldn't have met up with him had I known.

Your reliance on others, complete strangers, sharing your expectations of what is socially acceptable for a group of supposedly homogeneous individuals has been shown to have proved unreliable, however because you have encountered an outlier, who whilst subscribing to many of the facets of this homogenous group of people, is different, in as much as he does have kids.

Nothing in your chat with him prior to meeting, or in your profile suggests that you are not ok with meeting someone with kids, bar your membership to this social group.

Your steadfast reliance on
He knew I wouldn't have met up with him had I known.

Is what people are saying is problematic.

How could he have known that? How could he have 100% known that you aren’t one of those people, who whilst subscribing to the many values & practises of said social group, wouldn’t mind it if he had kids?

I have personally always maintained that he should have mentioned his kids to you! But like so many daters you will probably encounter, he was trying to present himself in the best possible light to you. (And yes it backfired on him).

My & a lot of PP’s point is your refusal to adapt your (actually quite) rigid stance & belief that your approach is fail safe - when it patently isn’t.

Hopefully you will go on to select truthful people from the sane homogenous group who by virtue of being in this group will have exactly the same values as you on things like children etc.

But you are in for an interesting ride if you make the somewhat erroneous assumption that all 30something professional London living people on a dating app will subscribe to the same unspoken & universally acknowledged rules that you do.

Of course you can’t screen out everything in advance - but given that it is tiresome to invest in someone only to realise something fundamental about them that is a dealbreaker - why can’t your pride allow you to consider it might be proudest next time just to ask??

Prudent

why can’t your pride allow you to consider it might be proudest next time just to ask??

@LicoricePizza

Fifth time and counting.....

As I've said a couple of times now if this becomes a trend then of course I'll start asking and obviously couldn't really complain it has happened twice! However, it's the first time it's happened, he's apologised, and I'm putting it down as a blip.

Doesn't bother me but I am not worried if they have kids/or not. I have on 5 year old I have 50 50 but I certainly don't mention that on my profile, although I do mention it prior to meeting. I am 31 I tend to assume lots of men my age and older will v likely have kids.

How could he have known that? How could he have 100% known that you aren’t one of those people, who whilst subscribing to the many values & practises of said social group, wouldn’t mind it if he had kids?

@LicoricePizza

Then why - pray tell - did he deliberately avoid telling me he had children? Why go to all the trouble of omitting the details about his kids if he was completely innocent to this?

This isn't conjecture and assumption on my part when the man has already apologised for doing just this.

I just don't understand the lengths posters are going to try and defend him, when he has already updated his profile & explained that he made a mistake by trying to hide it.

Calling me entitled and immature seems a bit much, although everyone is allowed an opinion.

@RobynNora I think, as a woman, all sorts of different issues can arise if you specify ‘no kids please’ in your dating profile or ask outright.

Okay so let me get this straight... according to you it's problematic for a woman to state that she doesn't want to date those who have kids because people might assume she doesn't like children, people might put her in the one night stand category, people might think she has a checklist...

But single parents have to state it outright and open themselves up to people assuming they're looking for someone to take on full responsibility, people putting them in the one night stand category, and people thinking they must have some flaw because they couldn't make it work with the parent of their children / must be a financial burden / won't have any free time / won't want more kids / must have an ex in the picture / any of the other hundred assumptions people make about single parents?

What? 😂 Can you not see the irony?

A non-negotiable "no kids" requirement and a physical chid are both things OLDers can make assumptions and judgements on without getting into the details or taking time to find out more. Why should one have to be stated outright (and open themselves up to snap often false judgements and being placed into categories) while the other can't possibly be expected to state it outright incase somebody judges them falsely or puts them in a category 🧐?

@floralarrangement they're defensive because they do it themselves and try to justify it. That's basically it.

I can imagine it's really hard if you are trying to date and are struggling to meet people because of this.

It's not shallow to be cautious about being involved in this though. It's not a personal attack on anyone's children, it's about all the issues that can come with this kind of dynamic.

There are so many huge things to consider that I think it's silly to get annoyed that someone doesn't want to & call them names. I posted about some of them earlier.

Not least would be getting really attached to someone else's children, being a huge part of their lives, and then feeling bereft if the relationship ends and you have no contact.

Because they are not remotely the same!!! How can you not see that?

Some people simply have no interest in dating someone with kids. It doesn't matter why. Their very existence is more than enough to put a lot of people off. It's not on you to expect them to justify what their reasons are.

It's generally seen as negative to have anything on your profile about what you DON'T want. OP would be opening herself up to far more hassle by doing that than by expecting men to be honest about having kids. As she has now said FIVE TIMES, it has only ever happened to her once. Most professional, city living men of 30 do not have kids and those who do don't usually lie about it (lying by omission is lying).

Dating someone does not make you a step parent actually. My daughter has yet to meet anyone I've dated. I certainly don't appreciate my daughter being used as a judgement as to whether of not I should date someone, making her seem like some sort of obstacle. Before I had my own, I still dated men with kids. With no expectation to meet them unless things got serious

She is some sort of obstacle. People are well, well within their rights to steer clear of someone with children. It doesn't make them shallow. It makes them sensible, in many cases. Your sense of entitlement is unbelievable.