To think you tell someone pre going on a date

[floralarrangement]

that you have a 2 year old and a 4 year old?!

Just got back from a brunch date and this was casually brought up. I feel like this is a HUGE deal, especially due to the ages. I don't have children and don't want to date someone who does. I'm 28 so maybe I'll change my mind on this later in life.

I feel like he didn't tell me (and probably other women) in advance as a way of getting dates from people who otherwise would've said no. Is this too harsh? For those of you who do OLD, do you tell people in advance/put it on your profile?

We work together (huge organisation - didn't know of him before & none of my friends do) which meant I felt pressured have a good date with him because I hate awkwardness. I already have one ex-boyfriend at work which I find stressful, I'd rather not make it a pattern with multiple people I have to avoid for one reason or another

Yup @Quincythequince

This is what led to me being annoyed. All this chat where he had omitted details that would have made it clear he had a two and four year old living with him!

For example, he told me all about a trip he took to a local tourist destination with his buddy Pete.

He and Pete got ice cream, he and Pete walked the trail etc etc. On the date when we were talking about it, he gave a lot more details where it turned out of course his two little boys had been with him too (ice cream had been dropped, short trail took 40 mins to walk etc etc ).

He'd deliberately not mentioned them.

If you think they're the same thing, then I suggest you try saying to someone important at work "you wasted my time" rather than "my time is important too"

Neither I nor Tandora said they were the same thing. We both used the words 'clearly implied'. To imply = 'to communicate an idea or feeling without saying it directly' (Cambridge Dictionary). So no, they're not the same, one is a less direct way of saying it than the other.

Mind you, I have a feeling that this discussion is indeed a waste of time, so I'll leave it there.

He'd deliberately not mentioned them

Yep, so it seems.

That’s not on.

Your phraseology is uncomplimentary hyperbole and the OP has the right to question it.

She said it the way she meant it.
You read into that if you like, but it’s ridiculous to put words in her mouth and then get annoyed when she objects.

And so what if she did feel it a waste of time? What of it?

@floralarrangement
You are still assuming that the majority of 28yo women don't want to date a man with young children! Many people do enter relationships at that age and younger with someone who has children.
You don't want. That's fine. But don't assume that all don't.

@ChoiceMummy

Nope, I never said that. I have been very very clear in my posts this is dependent on sociodemographic factors.

In my social circle, where I live, and in my profession the average age of first child is mid 30s. It is incredibly unusual to have children at my age, to be a stepmother, or to be divorced with kids.

This man works in my field (and in my company), he can see my dating profile. He knew I would not have gone on a date with him if I'd known this advanced, and has since apologised for not being upfront about it and has updated his profile. He said he wanted to meet in person so I could get to know him first, and that knew I probably wouldn't have done if I'd known in advance.

YANBU.
I understand why people wouldn’t put it on their profile but it just makes sense to mention it before springing it on someone halfway through a first date.

I’m a single parent at 32 and I wouldn’t want to have to invest my time into a date when I haven’t even established if they’re compatible with a major and non negotiable part of my life. Just seems sensible to me.

@ReachersAbs if a fella phrased the question in the direct way you did I’d be put off. I’d wonder why they were asking if I have children when I’ve never been asked that before in dating chats. I’d probably wonder if he thinks I look ‘mumsy’ and why I’d give those vibes. Not the greatest reaction from me (esp now I’m a mum!) but I know lots of men would feel the same on a dating scene where childless is default. It’s understandable.

I also wouldn’t love your transactional style of questions generally. Why do you ask so formally about my job? You say you’re a bit older and it shows a little. Online dating is all quite fun and light in the early stages as you’re both talking to lots of different people and have to be witty in your approach conveying/gathering info else you’ll both forget about each other. I’m assuming OP is on something like Hinge rather than eHarmony.

I’d have been pissed off too Op

when I was online dating there was no way I would have wanted to date men with kids.

you only have to look at the appalling way step mothers are treated on mumsnet to know why!!

Op sounds like you and I are in a similar boat

I think it's a balancing act. On one hand I don't want to see your kids on your OLD profile and the phrase "my dc are my world " or words to that effect make me want to scream. Not expecting to be priority number one but it's hard enough to organise a date or whatever without putting kids into the mix as well

However, if you get to the stage of chatting and organising a date then maybe something could be mentioned.

No, when I was OLD I didn't want to date anyone with kids so generally it was one of the first questions I asked because it was a big deal to me. You're as equally to blame for not asking the question! Why should people with children be expected to put it on their profile, there's a much of an argument for someone who doesn't want to date a parent to state that on theirs.

Maybe he too wanted to seem “fun and breezy” and didn’t want to mention his kids for fear you’d make some judgements about him , solely on the basis of that, before you’d got to know him?

Are you able to acknowledge at least that your perspective / experience is not universal ? Even to your particular “social circle” / “social demographic group”.

Maybe he too wanted to seem “fun and breezy” and didn’t want to mention his kids for fear you’d make some judgements about him , solely on the basis of that, before you’d got to know him?

Yes that's exactly what he was doing @Tandora and I'm not sure why you don't see the issue with it?

He knew I wouldn't have met up with him had I known, so pretended he didn't have children.

He has since apologised, why continue to bend backwards defend him?

@Tandora

oh come on, most child free women do not want a man who already has kids given the choice. Let’s not be disingenuous.

"@ReachersAbs I think, as a woman, all sorts of different issues can arise if you specify ‘no kids please’ in your dating profile or ask outright.
Men might think you dislike children and don’t want your own when this isn’t necessarily the case. You might also be placed in the one night stand category, which you might not necessarily want."

Interesting because I experimented with a dating site once - never actually joined - and putting 'don't want children' made me see the profiles only of men who already had children so the opposite of what OP wants. I think that's because it's only men who already have children who choose that.

Aye.

I expect this changes above a certain age, but it's crazy to debate the idea that a professional woman in her 20s without kids probably isn't looking for a partner who already has them!

Exactly.
As you get older you realise you may have to accept it because there are more and more people with children, but at 28? Why would anyone want that rather than have their own children?

I think it’s the name of the site that confuses people.

So you are not required to communicate what you need in a partner in advance of the first date , because after all you want to look light and breezy and avoid unwanted assumptions.

But he is required to anticipate what you need , and communicate to you that he probably doesn’t meet those requirements/ needs requirements (because after all what 28 year old childless woman in your sociodemographic group would want such a man) before ever meeting you, and if he doesn’t he is clearly selfish and not recognising the value of his time?

im not bending over backwards to defend this particular man. I’m trying to open your mind to the possibility that people with children aren’t morally obligated to communicate that to you in advance of a first date, and many may choose not to do so for a variety of reasons.

im trying to suggest you may benefit from adopting a more open minded and mature approach to dating if you want to avoid such situations in the future.

anyways clearly this a futile cause, as you are not the least interested in seeing beyond the end of your own nose.

*recognising the value of your time sorry!

*So you are not required to communicate what you need in a partner in advance of the first date , because after all you want to look light and breezy and avoid unwanted assumptions.

But he is required to anticipate what you need , and communicate to you that he probably doesn’t meet those requirements/ needs requirements (because after all what 28 year old childless woman in your sociodemographic group would want such a man) before ever meeting you, and if he doesn’t he is clearly selfish and not recognising the value of his time?*

Personally I think having children is the kind of "likely to be a dealbreaker" thing that does make the person obliged to convey that information, yes. Kind of like if someone was polyamorous and already had other partners, as people have mentioned up thread. I wouldn't ask if someone was polyamorous, the default would be that they are not, but if they are then they should be upfront.

I can understand not putting it on your profile but if you're talking extensively before the date then it should come up.

YANBU
I can really see his (deceitful) point, but it would really piss me off too (especially if I was as young as you).

Having children is a big deal. Way more of a big deal than most things.

Its definitely one of the first things people should be disclosing.

God Tandora! You are very hard work and hell bent on misrepresenting the OP and/or what is considered reasonable expectations between potential matches in OLD.

anyways clearly this a futile cause, as you are not the least interested in seeing beyond the end of your own nose

And WTF is 👆🏻
What a goady person you are.

im not bending over backwards to defend this particular man. I’m trying to open your mind to the possibility that people with children aren’t morally obligated to communicate that to you in advance of a first date, and many may choose not to do so for a variety of reasons

Respectfully, I think you are crackers!

Who wouldn’t mention this on the first date, or if not before. What fantasy world do you live in when someone tells a person on date 3, BTW I’ve got two kids
🙄

I’m am not “misrepresenting what is considered reasonable expectations”. I am pointing out that people have different opinions on what those “reasonable expectations” are. Hence the split of opinions on this thread.

Why is it so hard to understand that other people don’t necessarily share the same “reasonable expectations”?

I am not being goady, I have genuinely tried to debate the Aibu in this thread in good faith, but am not getting anything back in terms of willingness to engage with alternative ideas.