To think you tell someone pre going on a date

[floralarrangement]

that you have a 2 year old and a 4 year old?!

Just got back from a brunch date and this was casually brought up. I feel like this is a HUGE deal, especially due to the ages. I don't have children and don't want to date someone who does. I'm 28 so maybe I'll change my mind on this later in life.

I feel like he didn't tell me (and probably other women) in advance as a way of getting dates from people who otherwise would've said no. Is this too harsh? For those of you who do OLD, do you tell people in advance/put it on your profile?

We work together (huge organisation - didn't know of him before & none of my friends do) which meant I felt pressured have a good date with him because I hate awkwardness. I already have one ex-boyfriend at work which I find stressful, I'd rather not make it a pattern with multiple people I have to avoid for one reason or another

Okay, so 'waste of time' isn't a direct quote so shouldn't be in quotation marks, but it's a bit rude to think people are somehow only able to afford the cheap seats when you have clearly implied that he wasted your time.

Eh?!

It's an expression @WisherWood , it's used in theatres when people at the back (usually these seats would be cheaper) haven't heard something the actors have said.

Obviously this is a thread on the internet so I am not literally saying people can't afford expensive seating and that's why they haven't read my posts....

@floralarrangement
it is not unreasoable to state that for a 28 year old woman (which the thread is about), having a partner who already has children is more likely to be undesireable than it is to be desireable.
I don't disagree that for you it's not unreasonable not to date a man with children. But some in your situation don't have an issue with it. Again though, it's an issue for you, so the onus is most definitely on you checking by asking if they have children!

If this was the first date then I think it's fine for quite a lot to remain private on both sides. I'm probably really out of touch, dating-wise, but I think a first date is when you share more personal info, being more open as the date goes along if you feel it's going well. If it's not and you're not feeling a second date etc is on the cards then you've been able to keep some private things, well, private.
In my mind, a first date is not really a commitment from either side, and no big loss or upset of someone, for whatever reason, turns out to be the person you thought they were, or have circumstances not in keeping with your own.
I think past the first date, there shouldn't be any big bombshells to reveal, e.g. kids, but even then there are some things you'd keep a little private to someone who essentially is still somewhat of a stranger.
TL:DR First date - fine to not reveal about first, but would be weird if not mentioned during it

As I've said in PPs, if this becomes a trend then of course I'll start asking and obviously couldn't really complain it has happened twice! However, it's the first time it's happened, he's apologised, and I'm putting it down as a blip.

As others have said, if you have already been chatting to someone and they've told you all about their life and there's no indication they have them, it's a very bizzare question.

I can gurantee that if I asked one of the men I have been speaking to, "oh by the way do you have kids?", they would think that is strange and also pretty offensive. It's a weird thing to ask someone after you have already been talking about your lives and they haven't offered it up. It implies you think they're hiding it.

If someone asked me that, after I'd been telling them about my week, recent holidays, my job, how my dog is getting on, how I got stuck in a traffic jam and was late to work, of course I'd answer but I'd think it was odd, and that they had a previous bad experience with someone hiding it from them.

You definitely did very clearly imply he wasted your time (for not anticipating your needs and requirements , and then conforming to them , in advance of the first date).

I think not being upfront about it in the initial chat before meeting up puts the other person in a really awkward position. There's a big difference in telling them during the message stage where the potential date can think about it and decide if they are OK with the situation and go on a date, to telling them on the date where that person is put on the spot and has to ride out the date to be polite until they can leave.

It’s really not odd, you’re overthinking this on so many levels.

If it’s important to you, you need to take responsibility for it and ask. If you’re not going to ask you need to accept that there’s a chance that you will spend some of your time talking to people that you don’t want to take it any further with. This is a fact of life and no amount of complaining about how unfair or out of order it is will change that.

Telling someone in the message stage you have a two very young children is hardly conforming to someone's needs in an unreasonable way. I have kids of my own and don't mind someone with kids, but even I would be put off someone with kids that young and this guy would know that, hence why he probably failed to mention it.

@Tandora I'm not sure why you're so intent in misinterpreting my posts. Or bending backwards to defend a man who has since apologised for being unreasonable.

It is a lazy way to try and make a poster look unreasonable, by putting things in quotations marks that they never said.

If you think they're the same thing, then I suggest you try saying to someone important at work "you wasted my time" rather than "my time is important too"

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one @ReachersAbs

As I've said a couple of times now if this becomes a trend then of course I'll start asking and obviously couldn't really complain it has happened twice! However, it's the first time it's happened, he's apologised, and I'm putting it down as a blip.

Personally, I think it is strange to question whether someone has young children, when they have told you all about the details of their life and failed to mention it, and their profile gives no indication that they have them.

If you think they're the same thing, then I suggest you try saying to someone important at work "you wasted my time" rather than "my time is important too"

surely that’s just a polite way of making the same point?

Then you need to accept this this is possibly going to happen again and find a way to get over it and move on.

You are responsible for what happens in these situations because you know what you want and they don’t. Realising where the locus of control for your life sits for the most part is a hugely liberating thing.

@ReachersAbs

Why so intent on telling me off?

For the fourth time now

As I've said a couple of times now if this becomes a trend then of course I'll start asking and obviously couldn't really complain it has happened twice! However, it's the first time it's happened, he's apologised, and I'm putting it down as a blip.

I do feel that if I'd posted the same thing as a reserve you'd have exactly the same pile on, it seems to be the way on MN.

She’s not telling you off, she’s given you some sound and mature advice about taking responsibility for your own needs and desires, rather than expecting others to anticipate and meet them. The reality is not everyone thinks and feels the same way as you- hence a the 46/54 split on this thread.

And fair enough- put it down to a blip. Maybe it won’t happen again, maybe it will. If it does then it will be on you. But if you would rather take that risk than ask a potentially awkward question then that’s obviously totally your prerogative and reasonable 😊.

Oh give over!
She doesn’t want to date a man with kids. What exactly is your problem with that?

Just add it to your set of questions that you ask before agreeing to a date.

Always ask - 'What was the last book you read?'

and 'Do you have any children?'

Sorted!

@ReachersAbs I think, as a woman, all sorts of different issues can arise if you specify ‘no kids please’ in your dating profile or ask outright.

Men might think you dislike children and don’t want your own when this isn’t necessarily the case. You might also be placed in the one night stand category, which you might not necessarily want.

It also reads as quite prickly/heavy (a checklist, if you like) or like you’ve had a previous negative experience. Fun and breezy is the name of the game when online dating in your 20s - especially if people are flicking through profiles quickly - so this isn’t great

I dated in my 30s in a city and nobody ever asked about kids as it’s such a given that people on the market are single and generally too young to be on second marriages/relationships involving children. My younger sister dates in a more regional area where people settle down earlier and so more likely to have children but even there, they always disclose this

@Tandora you seem to be not replying to any questions people ask you, just attempting to contradict all my statements.

I have said many many many times now

As I've said a couple of times now if this becomes a trend then of course I'll start asking and obviously couldn't really complain it has happened twice! However, it's the first time it's happened, he's apologised, and I'm putting it down as a blip.

It is ridiculous for someone to read that and take it as me not "taking responsibility for your own needs and desires" or me refusing to ask the question, as the PP said.

Honestly, because I’m much older than you and can see that life is much less stressful and more straightforward when you just get over yourself, take responsibility for what you want in life and be up front about it rather than expecting other people to behave in the way you think is acceptable.

Your insistence on continuing to do the same thing when a simple question would get rid of any risk, seems pretty immature, especially when the potential outcome seems so dramatic for you.

Of course it doesn’t!

What do you do for a living? Oh you like rugby? What team do you support? Have you got any kids?

I think this is the real issue tbh. OP doesn’t want to write that on her profile for fear of how it might look (despite the fact that it is honest). Ironic perhaps?

Yes, exactly to all of this @RobynNora !

I have three kids.
Nobody would come near me - they are massive teenage boys 😂
Only joking.

However in the run up to dating, I fail to see how they wouldn’t have come up in conversation (assuming you spoke before you met) if he’s an involved dad.

How’s that possible?

Ot does sound like he was hiding it until a face to face date which is sneaky; and to be honest a bit pointless because look at what OP has said.

I wouldn’t date a man with younger kids, no way. And many wouldn’t date a woman with three teenage boys.

Such is life.

No it's not ironic @Tandora and you seem to have ignored most of the post.

You have a couple of lines to write a fun and breezy intro to yourself. I don't want one of the lines to be taken up with "not interested in men with children", when a) this has never happened to me before, b) i see many men who do list children on their profile, and 3) it's obvious that it's a huge thing that the majority of 28 year old women would not find desireable