To think you tell someone pre going on a date

[floralarrangement]

that you have a 2 year old and a 4 year old?!

Just got back from a brunch date and this was casually brought up. I feel like this is a HUGE deal, especially due to the ages. I don't have children and don't want to date someone who does. I'm 28 so maybe I'll change my mind on this later in life.

I feel like he didn't tell me (and probably other women) in advance as a way of getting dates from people who otherwise would've said no. Is this too harsh? For those of you who do OLD, do you tell people in advance/put it on your profile?

We work together (huge organisation - didn't know of him before & none of my friends do) which meant I felt pressured have a good date with him because I hate awkwardness. I already have one ex-boyfriend at work which I find stressful, I'd rather not make it a pattern with multiple people I have to avoid for one reason or another

But equally I’ll bite. Your entitlement comes from the assumption that your standpoint is the default .
everyone should understand your expectation: if you are dating you are assumed to be childless by default , and if you do happen to have children you should understand that there’s a good chance your date won’t like it and it’s your obligation to warn them in advance that your circumstances deviate from the default.

Actually it’s your job to communicate your expectation to your date and ask if about his circumstances if that is important to you, rather than just making assumptions.

@floralarrangement I know you didn't say that - I did rtft! Sorry if it came across like I was insinuating you said it, more just that it had been said on the thread. I quoted another poster and my response was more just a general reply to the topic than directly at you.

@floralarrangement - I suspect many of those who refuse to get it have kids, and are annoyed/not ready to accept it would make them undesirable to a lot of people should they be in/or want to enter the dating pool. Not everyone loves your little darlings 😂

As I've said in my PPs, in my sociodemographic group and profession that he also works in, being childless at this age is the "default". Being a divorced dad of two at 30 is incredibly unusual, which if you'd read my posts, you'd see he mentioned quite a few times on the date. He felt that part of the reason things didn't work out was because they did them so early in life (his words, not mine).

His profile implied he did not have children. His age and profession implied he did not have children. His chat implied he did not have children. It isn't entitlement for me to assume he does not have children.

Despite you bending over backwards to make me seem silly, he agrees with me, and hence has updated his profile.

Most OLD apps have a have/want/don’t want children section. I’d find it suspicious they’ve avoided that bit.

Anyway, yes, I would expect them to have it in their profile or at least mention it and if I had children I would have told them pre date.

@tandora - this would be true if being childless vs having children was equally desirable- I.e. roughly half of people would like it one way or the other. Having children is much less desirable and therefore not the default assumption. Many people on here have even said someone wanting to date you because you gave children is a red flag!

@CRbear I mean that goes both ways though. Most people who have kids do realise they have a limited dating pool in their late twenties/ early thirties. Most people who have kids also realise their options are going to open up over the next ten years (because they have the pick of the people with older kids and the people who never wanted kids now their own kids are grown), while the ones without are going to become "the undesirables" or at least the ones with the smaller dating pool (because the people who want kids have either already had them or are being 'snapped up' by women in their 20s / early 30s, and they themselves are likely to want kids which rules out the ones who don't).

That's kind of the way of the world and I think there are equal amounts of women in denial and fully aware on both sides of the coin.

But yes laugh away at the ignorance of single parents HAHAHA.

It may be the majority situation it doesn’t make it the “default”.
look up the meaning of default. For example-
the majority of people don’t have disabilities; it’s still wrong to go about one’s life acting as if being able-bodied is the default.

I’m not “bending over backwards to make you seem silly” , I happen to think , quite sincerely, that your view - whilst undoubtedly a majority one - is unreasonable and unpleasant.

In any case carry on as you are , but don’t be surprised if you inadvertently end up on more dates with men who have children.

At @Tandora - you seem confused. I've very carefully explained how it is the "default" (your phrase) in my sociodemographic group and occupation, of which he is also in. I specifically stated this is not true of all sociodemographic groups, as age of first child shows a strong social gradient.

This is basic population level statistics.

When you put this together with the fact that his profile implied he did not have children, his age and profession implied he did not have children. his chat implied he did not have children, I'm not sure how you can continue crying it's entitlement for me to make the assumption he doesn't have children

The man himself said he was an anomaly in his peer group, I'm not sure how much more it can be stated.

Err- you are confused and haven’t read my message properly. You also don’t understand the meaning of the word default.

Why don't you just ask before going on a date in future op?

And maybe just don't date people you work with either 🤷‍♀️

Seems like both problems are easily solved by asking some quick questions before you meet up.

Do demographics not mean anything to you?

The vast, vast majority of under 35s in the dating pool in cities like London are childless. It's perfectly normal to assume that this is the case unless told otherwise. It's an age where it's common to be single or married but not so common to already be divorced yet, or separated with kids.

If you're in the much less common situation, it's on YOU to inform.

Totally agree, OP.

He was deliberately concealing the kid issue.

As I've said in my PPs, neither of us had the specific company we work for listed on our profile.

But sure, it's the woman's fault, why not How dare I go on a date with someone I work with & assume he doesn't have children with no evidence to the contrary.

It's 100% this and so incredibly obvious.

Seemingly that would be far too straightforward and not worthy of all this overthinking and blaming.

You literally found out something on a first date which means you won’t see them again, that’s the whole point of dating. Does it really matter in the grand scheme of things?

I would argue that 90% of the AIBU threads are based on the premise of overthinking and blaming @SmiledWtherisingsun, seems to be what the forum is for

I didn't like the fact he deliberately concealed it because he knew I would be less likely to go on a date with him if he was upfront. So I started a thread on it!

I find most people are upfront about children, even if not on profile but chatting before the date. I think you got unlucky. I would always mention I have children and most men are upfront about it, I don't think I've come across a man I've dated that's hidden it. Only that one guy I dated worked away for the whole week, every week, in a different part of the country, was a bit annoyed about because he wasted my time, I wouldn't of dated him if I'd known.
Ask questions on children before you date, as it's a big deal.

If you're in the much less common situation, it's on YOU to inform

Interesting. Why are they obliged to thought?
if someone has a disability do you think they are obligated to disclose that before the first date?

You don’t know that, you suspect it unless I’ve missed it and you asked and he told you.

This whole thread seems to be about who’s fault and responsibility it is to bring it up. Maybe it’s an age / life experience thing but it seems clear to me that you can’t account for other people’s behaviour so if something is important enough to be still thinking about it after the event you need to be proactive rather than rely on someone else - this is not specific to this thread but any situation.

This

Being disabled is not the same thing as having children.

I've said in PPs that the two things that should be disclosed if you've got your settings to looking for a relationship is whether they already have a partner (and are looking for a polyamory type setup) or if they have children. They're both huge things which would impact greatly on a relationship and you should only go into if you've really considered it.

It isn't about whether you like children or not, it's thinking about the things that are involved with helping raise someone else's kids and all the potential issues that could arise.

@floralarrangement
I learned long ago, if you have real preferences or non negotiables, when OLD it's your responsibility to ensure that these are met.

I'm a parent, don't think children of the same age would ever work for my child, so I ask the ages in conversation if they say they have children. If not divorced, I ask if they now live separately. If they don't suggest they work, I ask what they do! It's not an interrogation, it's a conversation. And given these are areas that are of relevance to me, it is my responsibility to find these responses. It's not their responsibility to offer all of the information that I would like on their profile or when chatting; I accept they're not mind readers nor do they know what is important to me!

Imo, @floralarrangement the man wasn't unreasonable. Its also not about demographic circles because there are always outliers. The majority of my social circle at your age were unmarried and not parents, but there still was the married young with 2 children and divorced member, the single parent etc. They were a minority but existed.