To find this overt racism totally shocking in 2022

[DownToTheSeaAgain]

With the extended in-laws yesterday. Had a conversation about society and the role of state vs individual. All good and better than the usual run of the mill smalltalk. However in the middle of it SIL made a comment so outrageous and racist that shocked all of us in the room.

She kept on repeating it. This is an educated woman in her late 50s.

For full disclosure no one was drinking.

My AIBU is that I can't let it go. Is that normal?I woke up this morning feeling quite unsettled. I can't now see her as anything other than a racist bigot.

I can't go low contact as one of her adult DC lives with my family so for the sake of the DC (who is great) I have to suck it up.

Coping strategies?

I'm confused why you need coping strategies for your SIL but not your MIL, you've been letting this shit slide for years pretending it's funny but now you 'can't cope'? Bullshit OP, speak up every time and let them know you won't tolerate it from any of them.

With MIL I don't say 'you're funny' I say that's ridiculous or equivalent and laugh.

Then you are part of the ‘totally shocking’ problem you mention in your OP.

HTH.

’silence doesn't mean agreement.’

Silence is aiding and abetting racism. Not challenging racism isn’t a passive action. It encourages the racist to believe that it’s ok to say that in public.

Challenging someone you don't know in a pub isn't for everyone, playing the hero isnt always a smart move my cousin tried intervening in a domestic abuse situation at a kebab van which ended up with him being attacked by the woman and a nice scar on his face to remember it by. I personally don't know what I'd do in that scenario but i sure as shit wouldn't be agreeing with whatever they're saying.

Racism wether overt or not should always be challenged. Every single time. There is no such thing as "overreacting". If anything people don't react enough. But then I have black children, a black husband and other family. Know this. There is no such thing as "subtle" racism. It cuts like a knife, every single time. If it never crosses your path, if it does not impact your life, every day then you are extremely fortunate. I don't know any non white people, not a single one, who has never experienced racism. Personally, I have a zero tolerance, regardless of how close a family member. I have to for the safety of my children and my peace of mind. There is no ifs and buts. Its one strike and you are out in our house.

"Silence isn't agreement"

Oh hell yea it is. People's silence is deafening and most certainly agreement. If you fail to call it out, you are no ally and I don't trust you around my family.

I haven't read the full thread, I can no longer bear to read the endless whataboutery. It is too triggering

I have a racist SIL and BIL. When they started on one, I'd tell them that I find I find it offensive and ask them to stop. If they carried on, I'd say "I'm not listening to this vile shit" and either leave the room or go home.

They don't do it any more, SIL found it "too upsetting".

@DownToTheSeaAgain

If you're not going to give us any clue as to what she said, apart from 'it was similar to all girls with vaginas are stupid' (which makes zero sense anyway,) then how can anyone advise or give an opinion?

Did she call someone a stupid N-word, or just use an outdated term that you 'disapprove' of?

I wasn't looking for advice as to whether what she said was acceptable or not but as to how to cope with my longer term reaction. For that this thread has been helpful

Sorry that sent before I finished.

I can see that racism should always be challenged even if the person doing it is old and doddery. The shock for me was that someone I'd known for a long time wasn't the person I thought them to be.

Tbf, there have been a few racist incidents in Wetherspoons, and anyone who's seen their MD on Question Time is likely to think some of his views are distinctly unpleasant.

I was never keen on their pubs, but I've boycotted them since I realised what he was like.

@OnceuponaRainbow18
I’m sorry, probably a misjudgement to repeat what my SIL has said but I was trying to give context seeing as other people earlier were of the “if we don’t know what the comment is we can’t say” mindset.
I certainly didn’t mean to upset anyone and I certainly don’t agree with her, no decent person would.
I’m sorry for upsetting you.

That makes it difficult. You can't really challenge your SIL's racism when you haven't challenged MIL's racism. It will look personal, as though you have it in for SIL.

But I'm gobsmacked that you've been tacitly accepting or laughing at MIL's racism for all those years.

Racist, homophobic, sexist etc views are often associated with some very deep issues and unhappiness.

You can and should challenge it but most of the time you’d be wasting your breath as they can’t see beyond their own pain/anger.

It’s hard to not be angry or sad but you just have to pity these people who aren’t very intelligent and need someone to blame.

Yes this is helpful. With MIL I have always thought she is too old to really challenge but she is deeply disappointed in her life so it makes sense although it doesn't make it ok.

With SIL I just didn't realise she was like that. On the face of it she has a great life.

You said her ADULT dc lives with you so yes, you absolutely can go no contact!!!

Also be very sure that you correctly understood the meaning of what she said. For example, sometimes my adult DD says something that I consider to outrageously offensive. I jump on what she has said and we have a huge row. I am doubly wounded because she has said something that I find offensive, and I can't believe I have raised an adult who thinks these things,

Ten times out of ten, when the dust settles, it turns out that I have misunderstood what DD is trying to say. This is not because I am dim, but because she has an unfortunate way of expressing things. She thinks she is being clever by using 'sarcasm' - but actually she just has a really muddled way of making her point. When we actually break down the conversation we find we are in agreement. Could this be the case with your SIL?

No it doesn't. Silence and withdrawal - ie exclusion - is a legitimate tactic to show disgust at such views.

Sitting with your black and Asian 'friends' and saying nothing when they challenge racism is not in any way legitimate or ok.

I'm Jewish so have occasionally had the... interesting experience of someone making extremely antisemitic remarks without realising they apply to me. That's always fun.🙄

Let's say someone makes a racist comment about black people. You think the person making the comment 'doesn't know any better' or 'that's just how people of their generation think.'

Now, imagine there's a black person standing next to you both, and they've overheard that comment. How would they feel? And how would they feel if you - someone who they thought was better than that - didn't speak up in their defence?

Use that an acid test. TBH, it works for any kind of offensive or mean comment, not just racist ones. If the person targeted by the comment was there, would you be horrified and speak up? If so, speak up even if they aren't there. It's how you become an ally - it's when you speak up, even though no one is 'watching' or 'listening' to observe you being 'decent'. You just be decent for decency's sake.

Hope that helps a bit with reframing it in your head. I do think like most others that you've overreacted a little, especially given what you've tolerated from your MIL, but I do also appreciate that it can be upsetting/shocking when someone shows you to be a different person to the one you imagined in your head.

I'm sometimes "white passing", depending on the crowd. I feel your fun.

Solidarity!

@theobligatorynamechange
Solidarity and sympathy.

It is horrendous how many apologists there are on this thread.

This is probably in the top 10 of worst ever Mumsnet threads and that takes some doing.

Sitting with your black and Asian 'friends' and saying nothing when they challenge racism is not in any way legitimate or ok.

I didn't suggest it was though. I am addressing OP's situation. Not the one you just made up.

YABU to be shocked by it unless you live under a rock. I'm black and encounter overt racism pretty much daily.