AIBU to think it's cruel to force a toddler to sit on the loo

[Sheesh89]

I have posted before about my DS1 possibly having ASD and the difficulty I have with my DH not engaging/being difficult/awful.

My DS is 3 (only just) he going to pre school in Sep and its expected before he starts that he's toilet trained. We started yesterday, bye to the nappies, hello cool duggee pants.

He absolutely hates it. Literally hitting us every time we take him to the loo when he starts weeing. He has done it a few times in the loo but while sobbing. DH is sitting on the floor of the loo refusing to let DS off until he wees. So he is complying but it's so bloody traumatising.

Anyway I've said we are going too hard-core and it's awful. DH is now refusing to engage and saying "you bloody do it then" and basically saying I'm too soft and he won't be able to go to pre school because we are bringing up some "backwards, spoilt, kid"

I get that if we don't push DS he won't do anything ever. He refuses to do so much tidy toys, pick up clothes but also he was sobbing and totally out of control. Begging for his nappies. I think having the toilet brush thrown at me was a particular low point

Am I being soft? Does it need to be this drastic? Or is DH being awful? I feel so bloody confused. I just want to do the right thing by my DS but I feel like I'm not protecting him but then if neither of pushed DS he would just eat crisps and live in nappies until he was 8

I feel absolutely done in.

No that all sounds a bit Jericho and traumatic.

My DS who is similar age to yours is using a potty. He went for one little poo on it and it was a victory.

There is no pressure for him. He has had accidents in his pants but his potty stays in the same place so he knows he can go off to use. He's very private when going to the toilet, doesn't like us in the same room.

Sometimes he will just sit on it and pretend to wee. At this point, I wouldn't make it too stressful for your DS. My DS doesn't like the toilet as it feels too big. We will move onto the toilet after he is comfortable using his potty.

I meant hectic not whatever word that just threw out!

Sounds really hard and I note you've mentioned other issues so can't advise on your specific situation but no potty training doesn't have to be so traumatic.

I really recommend the 'oh crap potty training' book. It says take all bottoms off ( no pants or trousers) have a potty in the room with you and watch the child like a hawk. As soon as they wee you sit them on the potty. You soon work out the tell tale signs of when they need a wee (dancing/shuffling etc) and can then move on to pants/ trousers after a few days but in those early days they take too long to take off.

I followed it quite closely and DD was pretty much trained in one week.
I took the week off work and focused solely on it. It was hard work for me but not traumatic for her.

Are you in the UK? If so your ds can categorically attend preschool (and after that school if needs be) without being toilet trained.

Beyond that, I don't think your current approach is working. To be trained he needs to take himself to the toilet, not be forced onto it. If he does have asd there may well come a point where you have to push the issue a bit but not like this and not yet.

My (autistic) daughter was well over three when she potty trained. She was similar to your son, hated it, wasn't interested - until two older children (about 8 and 10 yo) that she knew encouraged her - she was dry in two days. Do you know any lovely older kids that could say how much better it is to not have a nappy etc? Might help.

Did he start with the crying the first time? Or was it just "no" and then getting more and more angry when "no" didnt work so he starts crying?

Because you say he wont pick up his toys and other things. So, is he maybe just used to being able to say no and getting away with it? Now that you're enforcing something, he is throwing tantrums?

I know you're saying there might be issues but it seems like every parent is saying that nowadays.

Children with ASD are notoriously much harder to potty train and would, I assume, likely not respond to standard methods. If I were you I'd look into resources for training ND kids rather than expecting him to just "get it".

And give your DH a metaphorical boot up the arse, how can he possibly think this is an acceptable way to treat a toddler?

Can he reach the floor with his feet? Sensory issues are common in people who are autistic and postural instability is one aspect of this. I remember someone explaining to me that having to sit on a toilet which already has a hole in with nothing to rest your feet on is terrifying.

Does he need to sit for a wee? Maybe thats what he hates?
My 3 boys have never sat, they stood from the very start. On a small step at first, aiming at a ping ping ball in the toilet.

Fucking hell hes 3! And with asd? Leave him alone! I often get told on here I’m way to strict with mine and expect too much, but I would not expect a just turned 3 year old to be tidying toys, picking up clothes etc. if he’s not ready to potty train yet then he’s not ready.

Getting a child to sit on the toilet isn’t an issue. However, it sounds like the parenting in the household is dysfunctional with your DH trying to ‘win’ over the child and beat him into submission. Also him just ‘refusing to engage’ isn’t healthy. Just sounds like there’s no concept of sensible conversation. Doesn’t matter if someone else is potty trained earlier - it’s about what’s right for THIS child, and an environment like this isn’t any good.

My daughter is neurotypical and didn't get toilet training until she was 3 years 5 months. I sent her to nursery in pull ups. I would find a better nursery that will work with you and stop the pressurised training.

But with all mine I sat them on the potty at nappy changes from quite small, encouraged them to sit on, praise for using toilet etc. Two were trained at 2.4/2.5, one at 3, one (autistic and struggled a lot) not until reception and to be honest still patchy then. There is no perfect way and perfect age. Kids are ready when they’re ready.

No, you’re right. My son is autistic and didn’t get properly toilet trained until he was 4 to 5 - he used to find it terrifying for some reason. Forcing him will make more of a thing about it, don’t do it.

Also pre schools shouldnt be demanding a child is toilet trained, that’s discriminatory as plenty of kids that age will have SEN that’s not been diagnosed yet.

Maybe your child isn't ready yet for potty training? My daughter (now aged 30) wasn't ready to start potty training until just before her 3rd birthday whereas her cousin was reliably clean and dry both day and night before she was aged 2 - but cousin did have the example of an older sibling to follow.

During the daytime I put daughter in knickers but made absolutely certain toi take her to toilet regularly and certainbly before we left the house if we were going anywhere. Once she was reasonably reliably dry during the day we started to leave her nappy off at night; we did have a few llttle accidents during the night at first but she soon got the hang of it.

One thing I made sure of was to never force daughter to go to the toilet because I felt that could possibly cause problems. Althoug daughter started her potty training rather late she soon got the hang of it. Don't try to force your child and he will soon get the hang of what it's all about. I certainly wouldn't expect a 3 yr old to be able to tidy his toys away.

Hi OP, can I ask if you researched this at all before embarking on this project?

It seems like you didn't, which is - to put it mildly - not the best idea for you or your poor son.

When potty training DS1, DH and I got a few books from the library, looked through them together, made a decision about which bits we liked and what we thought would work for us and our boy. Then we implemented it.

No screaming, no toilet brush throwing, no drama.

Like PP said - no pants, nothing from the waist down. Give him potty (or 2 or 3, ideally that he has chosen), not a big scary cold noisy toilet. Praise him for doing well, don't criticise his mistakes. Some parents swear by rewards - we did stickers, I know parents who did white chocolate buttons for a wee and brown ones for a poo...

Make it fun, make him feel like he's doing well, don't shame or scare him. I.e. follow the basic rules of parenting...?

aww poor bairn. My nephew with autism is 6 and not toilet trained. DS aged 3 is neurotypical and there’s plenty in his group not toilet trained. Are you sure pre school said that? Do they know he has potential additional needs?

I think back to the drawing board. There doesn’t need to be so much pressure. It’s got to be collaborative. Just strip him at the bottom with a potty in the living room. Make it exciting. Reward chart. We had a bowl with sweets for DS and every time he went to the loo he got to choose one. He’ll have accidents as it’s a brand new skill he’s learning. It’ll go well and then not so well. patience.

I wouldn’t expect a just 3 year old to happily pick up toys and do what he’s told to be honest! It’s better to work together with them rather than tell them.

you sound lovely and it’s so tough to start with without having the other parent having different ways of wanting to do things. Absolutely dreadful to call your son backwards and spoiled. Follow your instincts.

God. I feel like I have no good instincts on this stuff. I didn't make him tidy up his toys but now ask him to put things away with me as they certainly ask him to do that at nursery.

The pre school is for a small private school (I couldn't afford it but my DH works there so we get a huge discount so it will actually work out much cheaper than nursery or childminder). I only mention this as I don't know if it means they don't have to be as inclusive as state primary. But tbh if they're going to be that inflexible maybe itz not the place for DS after all. I had my doubts.

But I'm hearing that with other people its more of a case of persuading little ones to sit on the loo. There is no persuading him. He hates it. I can't work out if he's scared or if he just hates being told to do something

See I don’t know if I’d just not get him to tidy up any toys. I think there’s a way to install good habits without being confrontational/negative. For me I would always make the toys being picked up necessary for anything else. So ‘when the toys are picked up then we can do lunch/park/painting/TV.’ And then keep repeating and refuse to move to next activity until this is done. For my son who is autistic we had a now and next and I would take his hand to the toys then the box. I think there is a line between positive parenting and permissive parenting.

No, they still have to be inclusive. It’s a legal requirement. I’m not a fan of a lot of nurseries in general but I wouldn’t send him if they’re going to be like that to be honest.

Persuading didn’t work with any of my dc. DS1 took ages to get it, DD was quicker and DS2 was in between the two. All raised the same, and all are non neurotypical - all kids are different. He’ll get there when he gets there

What I mean is I wouldn’t tidy up my kids’ toys. They were (and are) only allowed one thing out at a time, need to tidy up the first thing before getting out anything else so it doesn’t get chaotic, and have to tidy away their own toys. I’ve got all my stuff to tidy up! Don’t need to be tidying up their stuff too.

@WoolyMammoth55 I was going to write something a bit sarcastic back to you but honestly your last sentence just made me burst into tears. I'm trying my hardest. Yes I researched it, I went shopping with him to buy his pants, we said goodbye to his nappies together, I bought him a reward chart, I praise him and cuddle him all the time. But he refuses to go near the loo. Hits us. Throws stuff. I came on here because I wanted advice but maybe I should try to "learn the basic rules of parenting".

Look up ‘family toilet seat’ it is more sturdy than those slip on top things and can make it seem less daunting. Put a step in front too.

Have you tried using a potty instead of moving straight to using the toilet? Apologies if I've missed it.