AIBU to think it's cruel to force a toddler to sit on the loo

[Sheesh89]

I have posted before about my DS1 possibly having ASD and the difficulty I have with my DH not engaging/being difficult/awful.

My DS is 3 (only just) he going to pre school in Sep and its expected before he starts that he's toilet trained. We started yesterday, bye to the nappies, hello cool duggee pants.

He absolutely hates it. Literally hitting us every time we take him to the loo when he starts weeing. He has done it a few times in the loo but while sobbing. DH is sitting on the floor of the loo refusing to let DS off until he wees. So he is complying but it's so bloody traumatising.

Anyway I've said we are going too hard-core and it's awful. DH is now refusing to engage and saying "you bloody do it then" and basically saying I'm too soft and he won't be able to go to pre school because we are bringing up some "backwards, spoilt, kid"

I get that if we don't push DS he won't do anything ever. He refuses to do so much tidy toys, pick up clothes but also he was sobbing and totally out of control. Begging for his nappies. I think having the toilet brush thrown at me was a particular low point

Am I being soft? Does it need to be this drastic? Or is DH being awful? I feel so bloody confused. I just want to do the right thing by my DS but I feel like I'm not protecting him but then if neither of pushed DS he would just eat crisps and live in nappies until he was 8

I feel absolutely done in.

I missed you started this just yesterday. Bloody hell. My enthusiastic, on board, neurotypical and absolutely ready other child took at least a week before they “got it”. The first 48h every single time they went on the floor after getting on and off the loo half a dozen times, they literally didn’t know how to let go into a toilet. Your expectations and those of your husband are way way off.

Why are you cuddling him after he throws his dinner though? I mean he’s three, not a baby. It sounds like your husband is overly aggressive and negative and you’re too permissive. Do you think you have an appropriate balance?

It doesn't sound as if he's ready op. We tried DS around 3 and he just wouldn't even contemplate going near the toilet. We then tried again in February half term so that we could spend the week pretty much at home with no nappy on and he got there, this was a week before his 4th birthday. He still has the odd accident and we haven't got it cracked through the night yet.
We suspect DS is autistic but are still waiting for his assessment at the end of the month.
They're all different and he will do it when he's ready.
Your husband sounds like a nasty,horrible bully and all he will do is make your DS associate going to the toilet with those feelings of being upset and traumatised.

I didn't expect success this early. I just didn't expect such a violent, extreme reaction. I should have done because he has v extreme reactions and often hits me. I feel like a dick.

He did actually wee on the loo a few times so he can do it. He always poos in the same spot in the house and insists we all go away. He hates his nappies and was so eager to wear pants. It had all seemed positive and then bam...slap round the face. I should have stopped then and I let my Dh push it and I feel so awful for that

You sound far too soft and your DH far too harsh so the answer is somewhere in the middle

Why are you comforting him when he has misbehaved? I appreciate there may be some ASD but he has to learn there are consequences to bad behaviour and you are giving mixed messages

This and then your DH OTT reactions - poor child probably doesn’t know what to do

I have an asd child, persistence is key to achieving anything, but not to the point of traumatising him, leave it for now and try again at a later date. Or persist for a bit longer this time around but not to the point he’s in tears being made to have a wee before he’s allowed off. I understand to a degree what your husband is doing, hoping to push through and get it done and dusted, another thing ticked off the list so to speak, but it could have a negative effect and work against you and then he won’t want to wee at all. So don’t force it but keep at it.

Mine was 5yrs 3 months when we took nappies in the day away for the last time, after several false starts from age 4. He’s almost reliably dry now at 8.5 years, so took 3 years a while to get to this point. He still wears them for bed.

Nursery cannot insist on a toilet trained child with suspected additional needs either. So don’t worry regarding that.

For the tidying toys away, and general getting your ds to do things he doesn’t want to do, you can buy now and next type boards to help with this. ‘First tidy toys, then x’. Etc.

I buy mine off eBay. / Amazon. I like these ones. I’ll add pic.

It sounds like you have diametrically opposed parenting styles and that's probably making your son even more confused and unsettled too.

@Sheesh89

This is particularly for children with additional needs. www.eric.org.uk/Handlers/Download.ashx?IDMF=68390a94-b585-414d-bab6-abe0558f8669

The whole website is useful actually.

I think your DH is in danger of making this into even more of an issue than it is.

Potty training doesn’t happen over night and requires a lot of patience. Accidents are normal. Your DS shouldn’t be forced to do anything but rewarded when he eventually does the right thing - and he will!

Your DH risks giving your DS negative and stressful associations with using the toilet. Your DS should not be 'punished' or shouted at for not getting this or finding it upsetting.

This may not be the right approach for your DS and other approaches have already been suggested, but what we did with our DC (admittedly NT) was take a very relaxed approach. 2 potties downstairs, toilet with seat and steps upstairs. He could choose every morning if he wanted pants (with his favourite character on them) or a pull-up. At first, DC only had pants in the house and a pull-up for nursery/trips out. And there were lots of accidents until he got used to the feeling of needing to go, but we never commented, just changed him into dry/clean clothes and told him he was a good boy for coming and telling us. And slowly he learnt about his body's signals and gained confidence, and then it was no more pull-ups at nursery and finally no more pull-ups on trips out either. And we've had very few accidents since, but when there has been one, we've tried to deal with it without comment or frustration (and with a quick hug when it's sorted) as this is not something we ever wanted DC to feel shame or stress around.

With DD, I started to try potty training a couple of months before she turned 3. I definitely persisted too long with the first attempt because I thought persistence was key. Eventually gave up, 2 more attempts over the next 6 months and then eventually she just took to it very quickly.

Couldn't face the trauma again when it came to DS so didn't bother trying so early. He showed a few signs of readiness a few weeks after he turned 3, I gave it a go and he potty trained like a breeze on the first attempt.

I have a friend who used to tell me quite regularly how her child was potty trained, both day and night, when she was 2. She's now 5 and having major toileting and soiling issues in school.

They're all so different that's is so difficult to give any advice to help your own situation, but I would say that if it's not working, give it a break for a month and try again.

Using the toilet shouldn’t be traumatising!

And it’s hard to go for a wee if you don’t need to go or you’re being forced to.

I would get him excited about his new big boy pants and then let him choose whether to use a potty or toilet each time.
He will feel grown up making those choices and you’ll be toilet training him at the same time.

Praise him for sitting on the toilet for 30 seconds - even if he doesn’t go.
If he can’t manage 30 seconds start shorter and then increase the time.

When he’s comfortable sitting on it then you can start asking him does he feel like he could do a wee - if not that’s ok, don’t push it just try next time.

Slow and steady wins the race.

I teach in a preschool for kids with ASD and we potty train when we feel the child is ready. That could be just gone 3 or just gone 4. I know your child doesn't have a diagnosis yet but i can give you the strategies we use.

A few weeks before we start potty training we talk almost incessantly about the toilet and what happens in there. We read books about it and sing songs. We have a little toy toilet and we sit dolls and teddies on it and praise the them (the toys) for using the loo.

Next we make the bathroom a super fun place to be. Books, songs, stickers. Anything that's high value to your child - put it in the bathroom.

We use cups to pour water down there to see what happens. We put tissue down and flush. The toilet can be really scary.

And finally we reward MASSIVELY for a wee in the loo. Jellies, crisis', iPad... whatever is the most reinforcing item. It can be anything.

However... there are always tears, and tantrums and hitting and throwing. It's easier for us because they're not our children but we persevere.

Sorry for the essay. Ultimately- is your child ready and can you persevere once you've started.

Best of luck

*crisps

I think you've come for advice and clearly very drained after today.

I would take a week and introduce a potty instead of a toilet. Kids thrive off praise and positivity and I think its best for you all to leave it a week. Also please don't pressure yourself to have him potty trained by September, just use the summer to increase his awareness. Let him see you go to the toilet and let him flush. You can say 'bye bye wee wee' my toddler loved doing that, he then just wanted to do it himself. Tell him you've bought him some big boy pants 'like daddys'.

Hope this helps

Enforced sits on the toilet are never going to work Get a potty, let him pee in his pants a few time. You both just need to relax and realise it's a gradual process.
It's really only one of many parenting hurdles and you've obviously managed to come through quite a few of them already so you will get there.

@flurryofcurry this is so so helpful. Thank you. I will put Iggle Piggle on the loo tomorrow and I've the idea of throwing water down there too. Thank you

@ChocolateHippo thank you. You commented on my other thread and you are so helpful and honest. I was worried putting pull ups when we left the house would confuse things but can see now that we will be some time before he's able to use a loo confidently

Cuddling him after he’s thrown his dinner at the wall? Just why? You and your husband are in danger of raising a very confused little boy, with your complete opposite parenting styles. I would really recommend that you both attend parenting classes asap, before you do him some real damage.

He always poos in the same spot in the house and insists we all go away.

So the potty goes in that place in the house, and he goes without a nappy.

I'm a GM so I'm interested in the going straight from nappies to the toilet thing. Is this how training is done now? It seems quite scary for me, for a toddler to be faced with that height and that size of hole to be sitting over (even with the insert seat). Of course I'm open to new strategies if there's reasoning to it, but a potty does seem a lot less threatening, sensory-wise.

It's a long slog with asd, my advice is bottoms off, potty in the room hes in and patience. My dd has asd and was much older, nearly 5 and we bribed her with books, the only thing she cared about - she got a coin for every successful trip to the potty and paid a fine of a coin if she failed, on Saturdays she could take her money to buy a mr man book. (Her maths was and is excellent)

When I said cuddling him after throwing his dinner I mean like this

I give DS tomato pasta.
DS says he wants tuna pasta
I tell him no, he can have tuna tomorrow
DS screams he won't eat it then and asks for pudding
I say no pudding until he eats some
DS throws dinner on the floor
I take DS away from table, tell him no, give him time out
DS comes back to table saying sorry and crying
I give DS a big cuddle

DH says I'm too soft. I should make him clean up the mess

I didn't mean he throws his dinner and then leaps into my arms.

I admit I haven't read all the replies so apologies if someone has already suggested putting a ping pong ball down the toilet so he can stand at the toilet 'like Daddy' and have a wee aiming at the ball. Daddy could show him and make it into a fun game.

Your little boy might be afraid he will fall in if he sits on the toilet so save the potty for poos for the time being? It doesn't sound like he's ready for sitting on the toilet yet. It will come, don't despair.

@PinkSyCo the suggestion I need parenting classes feels a bit rough. But clearly stuff I'm saying is ringing alarm bells. I read the books, go on MN, regularly see our health visitor, chat to nursery staff, (they have no concerns) I am trying. And my two DS love me. From the moment they wake up we are affectionate and silly together. Just I'm struggling to work some stuff out. Hence me coming on here.

I think it might confuse things for younger children, but maybe it made a difference that our DC was older when we started potty-training (3.2) and so seemed to understand quite quickly that the pull-up was just in case of accidents. He'd still ask to go to the toilet, but we wouldn't always make it in time if we were on the bus/train or in the middle of a park. But it meant we didn't stress and so he wasn't stressed, and I think that helped with training in the long-term. Certainly we've had no regressions and I do know a couple of little ones who were trained much earlier who have had some issues since (although I'm not suggesting this is anything but anecdotal).