AIBU to think it's cruel to force a toddler to sit on the loo

[Sheesh89]

I have posted before about my DS1 possibly having ASD and the difficulty I have with my DH not engaging/being difficult/awful.

My DS is 3 (only just) he going to pre school in Sep and its expected before he starts that he's toilet trained. We started yesterday, bye to the nappies, hello cool duggee pants.

He absolutely hates it. Literally hitting us every time we take him to the loo when he starts weeing. He has done it a few times in the loo but while sobbing. DH is sitting on the floor of the loo refusing to let DS off until he wees. So he is complying but it's so bloody traumatising.

Anyway I've said we are going too hard-core and it's awful. DH is now refusing to engage and saying "you bloody do it then" and basically saying I'm too soft and he won't be able to go to pre school because we are bringing up some "backwards, spoilt, kid"

I get that if we don't push DS he won't do anything ever. He refuses to do so much tidy toys, pick up clothes but also he was sobbing and totally out of control. Begging for his nappies. I think having the toilet brush thrown at me was a particular low point

Am I being soft? Does it need to be this drastic? Or is DH being awful? I feel so bloody confused. I just want to do the right thing by my DS but I feel like I'm not protecting him but then if neither of pushed DS he would just eat crisps and live in nappies until he was 8

I feel absolutely done in.

@Jellybean23 no one has suggested that before! Sounds great. Can't imagine DH having much enthusiasm but give it a go. Thank uou

Oh OP, my heart goes out to you.

The first thing I want to say though is why are both the grown-ups in the house so involved in this? I mean, I'm totally into equal parenting but essentially you have the only two people in his world literally pressurising him to get this right. The power balance is SO unequal, of course he's kicking off.

Both parents absolutely have to have the same approach to something like this, but you don't both have to be doing it. The amount of pressure you're piling on is huge.

I'd go straight back to ground zero tomorrow. Wait and try again in a month or so. It took us three goes to get it right. If pre-school won't take him because he's not toilet trained then it's not the right pre-school for him. No biggie.

@Sheesh89 i know if that happened in our preschool then yes, we'd make the child clean up the mess no matter how sorry they were. Obviously it's a token effort of cleaning up but still, they pick up the plate/bowl and scoop up some of the mess. We'd make it easy, bring the bin over to right beside the mess.

We have the time and the staff to wait it out but even if it took an hour we'd expect the child to clean up.. even if that was literally just picking up a fork. Not as easy at home.

Don't be too hard on yourself, it sounds tough. X

Potty, zero pressure and zero expectations. Expect it to take months and if its weeks you will be pleased. NEVER say anything negative about efforts. Never ever heard about making kids go directly on the toilet - where did you read that?
for now - go back to nappies 100%, take the pressure off him for a few weeks and then gently try again. You and DH need to reestablish his trust.

It just sounds a bit silly. Is his behaviour generally difficult/challenging? At 3 there shouldn’t be any fuss over dinner so he’s regularly throwing it around. Personally if any of mine threw their dinner over the age of about 1.5 it wouldn’t have been time outs and crying and cuddling. It would have been ‘clean this mess. Do not throw and waste food.’ Then they would have swept it up. I wouldn’t have been cuddling them for throwing food because it wasn’t the right kind of pasta. Same with all the silliness of him screaming for pudding and you saying no and trying to bribe him to eat more. It should just be ‘there’s no x pasta. This is what’s for dinner. We’re eating dinner right now and not pudding.’ Then ignore, except maybe a ‘please don’t scream at me.’ But instead you’re pandering and bribing then cuddling. There’s no need for big drama over everything.

It just sounds like you and your DH are a bit at odds. I think he’s right about the dinner situation but I don’t agree with how he’s handled the toilet situation.

He will wee and poo on the floor etc one or twice but you must never react. Without pressure they get it quickly

3 is still very young to be fair, so please try not to worry in that sense. When we potty trained, we asked every 30 mins 'do you need a wee?' and if she did a wee/poo on the potty we just did loads of praise and treats, and if she had an accident we just cleaned up, didn't make a bit deal out of it, kiss and cuddles and move on. Inevitably there will be accidents, and your husband cannot physically know that your son needs the toilet, your son and only your son knows that - if he says he doesn't need it and then has an accident, it's really not the end of the world, him making a huge drama out of it is likely to put your son off, and you need to make that abundantly clear to your husband.

Try a potty, they're much less daunting at first, put the potty in the spot your son goes when he poo's, and he has absolutely nothing on at all from the waist down for a few days (you'll have to stay at home for the first few days and just let him run around in the buff) then try pants when he has mastered actually going on the potty.

Potty training is stressful for both you and your son, and it's not an overnight process, your husband needs to cool his jets or it will be impossible for all of you. Speak to him and have a strategy going forward, if he thinks your too soft and you think he's too harsh then meet in the middle. There of course is a chance your son isn't ready, in which case it will be worth waiting a little, it really isn't unusual for just turned 3yo not to be potty trained at all.

You sound lovely, and very child centric, which is exactly how it should be, you and your husband just need to get on the same page.

When you and your DH have such differing parenting styles do you not see that receiving some guidance and outside perspective together would be beneficial?

Otherwise you are going to raise a very confused child

Do you think that your DH is worried that the school won't understand the fact that your son is autistic? They will need to make reasonable adjustments.

My son is autistic and started school in nappies. He got there in the end.

Children with autism like predictability. Could you do a visual timetable of what's for dinner each day or w choice of two things.
I think it's difficult at this age with a child with ALN because a lot of people assume they're just naughty. You are trying to help him regulate his emotions. You are doing the right thing.
I would have a think about whether this school is in your son's best interest.

if that happened in our preschool then yes, we'd make the child clean up the mess no matter how sorry they were. Obviously it's a token effort of cleaning up but still, they pick up the plate/bowl and scoop up some of the mess. We'd make it easy, bring the bin over to right beside the mess.

Yep. I am a retired teached of children with severe autism. If they threw things or detroyed things (or even accidentally dropped things) they always were involved in some way in clearing it up. I and my TA were very relaxed in our tone of voice and body language and talked about 'doing it together', and sometimes simply picking up a single bead from the floor was accepted as enough. But always the result of the child's action had some consequence for them in that regard. And if they hated having to help clear it up, then it was an added incentive not to repeat the throwing.

TAs. I had three or four, usually!

My nt son was almost 4 before we cracked potty training! Anytime we tried he clearly wasn't ready. When he was ready, he cracked it straight away within 2 days. You cannot force a child to toilet train. He's just not ready. This will traumatise him and push him back further.

Buy one of those potties that looks like a mini toilet, just the right size for him, let him play with it for a couple of weeks then start with him sitting on it playing & work up to him using it, lots of praise, no shouting. If he isn't ready it might be better to go back to pullups for a couple of months then try again.

Gosh your husband sounds harsh (a bully)and he works with young kids??? This sounds v traumatic. I can remember being scared of big loos when I was little.scared of falling in, I found it difficult to balance-and they were cold . Peeing on demand, shouting and fighting is not helping at all in fact it’s going to give your son bigger problems. Are you sure he’s ready?I remember trying my daughter before she was ready and had to abandon but 3 months later she came out night and day within a week. Definitely try a potty first and keep it lighthearted and positive - lots of praise and dont make a big deal out of lack of progress/ accidents. I wouldn’t do the stripped down to pants thing either. I would hate that - I would feel stripped/alien to me. Just joggers/easy off clothes. It takes a while for every child to get it then hopefully suddenly it clicks,You may have to gag your husband or get him to butt out it if you and your son would get on better without his input. It will take time. My second son was v tricky. Threw out loads of pants as had lots of poo accidents and I really despaired. I bought a sticker book from Amazon called Pirate Pete and sat down with it one day and he never looked back. Good luck

I’d also try to help your son by forgetting about it for a month or so so it’s less stressful for him.

Jesus. He's 3. The experience sounds like it was horrific for him and you've probably se back any chance of successful potty training by weeks at least.

STOP looking for suggestions to continue tomorrow because that kid needs time to get over the fear and upset and trauma.

Try again in a few weeks. Put a potty in the living room. Keep him naked from the waist down. Wipe up the accidents with a smile on your face and when he eventually gets the tiniest bit of wee in the potty or toilet, make the biggest fuss of him ever. No pressure.

Some boys, ime, don't take to sitting at all. Two of my 3 went straight to weeing standing up in the toilet, using a stepping stool. And remember they love to copy...get your DH to wee in the toilet when ds is in the room then make a huge fuss of him in front of ds. It often works, weird as it sounds!

My ASD SS is 6 and not potty trained yet, he goes to a mainstream school, don’t be so hard on him he’s only little, you’ll know when he’s ready 😁

My ds was only 3.5yo when we started him. He was dry the first week because he was ready. Your poor little one doesn't sound ready and he is feeling traumatized. Take a break, start getting him used to the idea, lots of gentle talking about it and try again in a few months

Have you seen the You Tube cartoon Poo goes to Poo Land? It may help

We introduced the potty long before getting rid of the nappies. From when she was 1 plus we just thought let’s see what happens if she sits on a potty and she would pee on it reliably if you put her on it - like a reflex at that age - so we would do that e.g. before bath time just for fun. I learned afterwards that some people do this basically from birth. By the time she was ready to self monitor to an extent and sort of take herself to the potty with encouragement, the potty itself wasn’t a new thing, only not having a nappy was. She was I think 2.5 when she fully trained.

My second tip is one that someone gave me. Basically, let the nursery do a lot of the actual potty training. They are best at it - they’ve done it with many many children - they can really help. Plus my DD started to feel ready when she saw the slightly bigger nursery kids use the toilet and wanted to do the same. I think it seems a bit crazy for a nursery to want the child to arrive trained.

Also used the Pirate Pete book PP mentioned which she enjoyed.

Good luck it will all be fine in the end. Just do whatever you think will work and feel free to wait for a few more months. It’s not worth any member of the family getting upset over. Every child is different.

Can he not be taught to stand up to wee into the potty or toilet instead? It might be a bit messier as he gets the hang of aiming but sounds like having to sit down is stressing him out and causing unhappiness for everyone? You can put a ping pong ball into the toilet (which floats so won’t flush), buy flushable paper targets or plastic targets which stick to the toilet bowl or hang from the rim (search for ‘boy toilet aim target’ on Amazon) to help him learn to aim.

No member of staff has any business working with children if they refer to a child as 'backwards and spoilt'

I started potty training when DD was nearly 3 in about June time. She didn't take. She wasn't understanding and too many accidents. I stopped again until September and gave it another go. She'd be about 3 years 3 months by this point. She potty trained in about a week. We used the summer infant my sized potty for her. It's a miniature toilet which has flushing sounds and she loved it. She'd sit on it for ages reading a book and playing whilst she tried.

We also used toilet training pants. They are like normal underwear but have a thicker gusset so hold wee a bit better. You can find these on Amazon. Called toddler training pants. She wore these for nursery and within the first week was having no accidents.

It's a stressful time and each child is different. If you feel your child isn't getting it then it may be a good idea to delay it a bit for now.

You poor things!
Apologies if this has been suggested but it worked for my neurotypical but very very reluctant 3 year old (2 of them). It seemed to interest them in the idea of going though I believe it was intended for kids who withhold poo.
apps.apple.com/gb/app/poo-goes-home-to-pooland/id987924591
also apologies as it’s the most annoying thing literally ever!