AIBU to think it's cruel to force a toddler to sit on the loo

[Sheesh89]

I have posted before about my DS1 possibly having ASD and the difficulty I have with my DH not engaging/being difficult/awful.

My DS is 3 (only just) he going to pre school in Sep and its expected before he starts that he's toilet trained. We started yesterday, bye to the nappies, hello cool duggee pants.

He absolutely hates it. Literally hitting us every time we take him to the loo when he starts weeing. He has done it a few times in the loo but while sobbing. DH is sitting on the floor of the loo refusing to let DS off until he wees. So he is complying but it's so bloody traumatising.

Anyway I've said we are going too hard-core and it's awful. DH is now refusing to engage and saying "you bloody do it then" and basically saying I'm too soft and he won't be able to go to pre school because we are bringing up some "backwards, spoilt, kid"

I get that if we don't push DS he won't do anything ever. He refuses to do so much tidy toys, pick up clothes but also he was sobbing and totally out of control. Begging for his nappies. I think having the toilet brush thrown at me was a particular low point

Am I being soft? Does it need to be this drastic? Or is DH being awful? I feel so bloody confused. I just want to do the right thing by my DS but I feel like I'm not protecting him but then if neither of pushed DS he would just eat crisps and live in nappies until he was 8

I feel absolutely done in.

Find a better preschool. One that actually cares about children not its la-di-da reputation.

Can I recommend Yvonne Newbold approach to dealing with ASD/behaviour difficulties (website and Facebook). I think you'd find it really helpful and a supportive community of parents, many of is have also been accused of being too permissive or soft!

Personally I think you are dealing with things in the right way and perhaps pausing potty training for a few weeks would help both you and your ds. I also had big problems with my husband forcing my 3 yr old to sit on the toilet; the judge at our family court trial agreed that this was abusive, and is partly why we are divorced.

It’s ok. I’m sorry too if I come over harsh, but I have an autistic (just turned 2) grandson, and the thought of someone treating him the way your husband did your child makes me feel very sad, and I’m sorry to say but all the cuddles in the world won’t make up for the pressure he is putting on your child at such a very young age.

DS is 3yrs 8m and has been trained for about 2 months. He's still not reliable (we've just moved house and he struggles massively with change), but I only trained him when he was ready, he started going to the toilet like me and his dad and his cousins, thought it was super cool and there was no tantrums and upset involved, if there was I'd have just stopped tbh, it only makes it more of a thing I think. We do also think DS is autistic and he does have a language delay that prevented him from being able to communicate his needs for a long while but he doesn't HAVE to be trained for pre-school, they can't refuse to take him if he's not trained.

To be fair I think much of it could be solved with some decent communication. It sounds like the two parents are very at odds over parenting altogether (not just in potty training) with mum cuddling him because he screams and cries after throwing an unwanted dinner and regularly hits her, then dad overreacting in response. I think maybe sitting down and really talking/agreeing on plan going forward could really help. It would also clear any resentment or pressure.

I only succeeded on my third attempt to potty train DS2 when he was 3.5. Nursery continued to do his nappies until then with 0 pressure to potty train before. For what it's worth I know several boys for were potty trained past 3 - it's definitely not that uncommon.
It turned out my son is autistic and demand avoidant (which stems from anxiety). Rewards, praise, bribes and threats really don't work for him. Forcing him to do something and trying to 'win' and show him who's boss (which is what your husband is doing) doesn't work and is very traumatic. Once my son decides to do something he usually picks in up quickly. When he was ready for the toilet/potty it all happened v quickly with virtually no accidents and no stress. I only wish I hadn't tried earlier tbh!
I have 3 neurodivergent children and you do need to parent differently and the kinder more sympathetic approach is better. They have enough added stress in their lives without parents adding to it further.
Your husbands response sounds fairly extreme and he sounds triggered- I would suggest he works out what about this upsets him so much and he deals with that rather than take it out on his son. Your instincts sound right you just need to stand up for your son more confidently.

Just a quick recommendation here for free app 'Poo Goes to Pooland' (download it on your phone). A lady with a strong Scouse accent reads a cheerful story about Poo. Sounds unhinged but it was mentioned on Mumsnet and was invaluable in helping my 3y old son to make sense of toilet training and see it's not scary after all. We had to read it several times of course!

Jeez your DH is being a complete arsehole...what a way to talk about his child!

DS is clearly not ready, and if he has ASD maybe he won't be for abit longer than others.Don't compare.

And PLEASE choose another nursery....one that actually has an understanding of child's needs, not a 'they all need to be doing this by this age' sort of approach.If they are being like that now what other unreasonable expectations will they put on the poor little boy once he is there.
You need somewhere that treats children as individuals, and understands additional needs!

Scrap the toilet training for now and the nursery too...your little boy (and you!) need a break x

Jeez your DH is being a complete arsehole...what a way to talk about his child!

DS is clearly not ready, and if he has ASD maybe he won't be for abit longer than others.Don't compare.

And PLEASE choose another nursery....one that actually has an understanding of child's needs, not a 'they all need to be doing this by this age' sort of approach.If they are being like that now what other unreasonable expectations will they put on the poor little boy once he is there.
You need somewhere that treats children as individuals, and understands additional needs!

Scrap the toilet training for now and the nursery too...your little boy (and you!) need a break x

*don't compare

*don't compare

Ime most children train between2.5 yo and 3.5 yo so there's plenty of kids your son's age who aren't trained yet.

If you're only training because of September nursery then stop.

Having read your replies, my son did the pooing and needing "privacy" thing too. Afterwards, does he ask you to change him? My son doing this made me try potty training.

At first he was bottomless and we went in the garden to save washing and simplifying things. (Remembering to take your trousers and pants down before weeing is an extra step) There were times when he'd end up just watching the wee come out but he worked out quite quickly what to do. I used a potty because they are portable, less high up so feel more stable (toilets where feet dangle aren't going to be pleasant- especially if you're ND)

I know some people have sitting on the potty before bath time as part of their routine regardless of whether or not anything is produced.

You mentioned previously that you think your husband is neurodiverse too and that's why he has been resisting having your DC diagnosed and feels he has to just 'fit in' with the world. I think it's important to know that information as it could mean your husband isn't just a bully but is carrying his own unresolved emotional baggage. Or he could be a complete arsehole, I don't know him.

I do agree with pps that you are both parenting to extremes and that you need to find a medium setting. He sees you as too soft and so goes overboard with strictness which in turn makes you (understandably) want to make everything easier for DS and take the path of least resistance which probably frustrates your husband and leaves you both at a stale mate and probably creates a horrible atmosphere at home for you all. I don't think either of you is wrong in your intent and I'm sure your husband loves your son just as much as you (unless there is a big reveal), I think the whole situation has evolved into a mess.

Good luck with today.

OP I’m sorry you are having such a hard time. Can I recommend you find other sources of support for looking after a child with Autism. People really dot know what it’s like and whilst they may be well meaning in their advice a lot of it is just ablist and offensive. There are a lot of great FB groups for example. I really like the Autistic Girls Network (although I know you have a boy.

Also, I thought I would post this extract from a book, because many of us will have been in the position of having our parenting criticised.

Here it is

"And I stepped in and told him to give him a break"

So the loo is where mummy and daddy fight in front of DS. Hardly going to be a place he wants to be.

I used re-usables, including pull-ups, for mine when we were potty training. When the child has wee-d they remain wet and go cold encouraging the DC to try to avoid that. Disposables don't seem to feel different wet or dry so hard for the wearer to distinguish.

@Sheesh89 In your shoes I would leave it completely for at least a week and try to reset a bit. What worked for us was having a potty in every room and showing DD where it was, then pants off and letting her do what she wanted- we really praised her if she sat on the potty whether or not she did anything. Accidents (lots of those!!) we just cleaned up without a comment. It took a couple of weeks but then she was away. She also didn't respond well to pressure so just letting her do it in her own time was the best approach for us. It helped that it was summer and also we have lino floors- might not be for you if you have carpets/very house proud!! Another idea is you can put a folded out nappy in the potty so DC is weeing into the nappy, if you get me, as a sort of halfway.

I think your bigger problem is your DP. Did you post about him the other day? What you described sounds really distressing and really isn't going to teach your little lad anything. It sounds to me like your instincts are totally right and DP are totally wrong!! It's not possible to learn anything when so upset. I don't know what to suggest because presumably he has his good points but I'd find it very hard to respect a partner who acted like that.