Thomas Markle - To think the pain of being ostracised is not understood by those who haven’t experienced it?

[EarthlyAngel]

Reading various news reports of Meghan Markle’s elderly Dad having a stroke and her still not visiting. Some batshit comments of how ‘abusive’ he was to her by talking to the press after she cut him off and that he deserved it.

Having experienced something similar myself (being cut off), I can say it’s been the worse pain that I’ve ever experienced, that someone who is supposed to love you can callously walk off and totally cut you completely out of their life. Not talking about a boyfriend, a close friend or even a husband but a family member such as a parent or an adult child who you have complex emotional bonds to.

The silence is deafening. It’s like they’re dead but you can’t grieve them and you also have to deal with feelings of anger, rejection, worthlessness and profound sadness. IMO it’s something you can never move on from because you’re stuck in a limbo with no closure, hoping that someday they might want to have you in their life again even though you rationally know they don’t deserve to,

I for one can totally understand Thomas Markle speaking out to get a reaction, any reaction. You are desperate to get them to contact you in that situation. You try to fight back so they can’t just erase you and forget about you. He had a right to voice his truth and his sadness. I think he’s been treated abominably from the beginning when he was besieged by photographers while living a quiet life in retirement and people who have not experienced the pain of being cut off have no idea. It’s a punishment which IS actually abusive! The kind of people who do this know it will cause immense pain and distress.

Yes he did a deal with a photographer to get some flattering pictures of himself publicised under his control to improve his image as he didn’t look great when the press descended on him after the engagement but really did he deserve to be tossed like trash in the garbage because of that? It’s not like Meghan herself hasn’t made money from her connections now is it?

I am NC with my sister. The day I decided to do it, I felt like a tonne of weight was off my shoulders.

If you asked her why I did it she would be all wide eyed and innocent too OP but when I can live my life without her in it and my life is better for it, I would be a fool to stay in touch with her.

Life is too short to just keep handing a toxic person chances to abuse you.

Sometimes that abuse is overt and obvious, sometimes it's just that the person that has been cut off just doesn't 'get' the cutter.
If you were to be in a room with your DC and you asked them why they did it and you would have not listened to them or told them they are wrong, that might be your answer.
The reason for going NC might not be a huge thing. It might be more like a PP mentioned upthread when the son said 'they bring nothing to my life'. In that case the cutter still had the right to do it. Morally maybe not as it seems so shallow but actually, they have one life and if they are happier going NC so be it.

No idea about the Markles but just to put another scenario in place. My Brother cut my Dad out of his life for about 12 years. He said it was because Dad behaved badly and wasn’t grateful after he brought him a computer and because he was an Arsehole to him growing up.

My Dad really struggled with technology and my Brother turned up with a computer just after Dad got out of hospital following cancer surgery and he was really unwell. My Mother was a nightmare amd spent years lying to my Brother and I about things my Dad was supposed to have done. When I cleared her house it was obvious what a liar my Mother was .

My Brother is an Arsehole who has treated me appallingly too and the list of things he has done generally in life is quite a long one. He’s the type of person who struggles to stick to the law, is in his own words a c, rows frequently with friends and is difficult to maintain a relationship - my family don’t understand why I still speak to him.

Whilst I think the overwhelming majority of cases are that there is very good reason that NC has occurred, there are cases where it isn’t that simple.

From everything she posted about him and said about him in the years before the wedding, he was a good dad and they had a great, very close relationship (if you believe her and don't question her motives for posting all the stuff she did). He also spent a lot of his money on her education, travel and helping her to further her career

That’s a very cyclical way of looking at it.

My dad spent a lot of his money on a private education in top London schools for me and my siblings. I also talk fondly about how he is such a great dad who made sure I had the best in life and spent time with us making great memories.

I never ever tell anyone that he was physically and mentally abusive and controlling to us and ny mum, and still tries to have that control. Not even my husband knows the full extent.

To the outside world he was and is a great dad and we have a great relationship. In reality, he really wasn’t and we have a very superficial relationship.

I don't think it says much that she only had her mother at her wedding. I only had my parents and sibling at my wedding, if we're looking at blood relations. The reason for that was that I didn't have any other family growing up. You can't invite people you have never known.

This is my experience too.

staynow Narcissism is a personality disorder, and not necessarily genetically inherited or caused by abuse of any kind.

There are many studies that have looked for the cause of narcissism without much success. Many narcissists will have grown up in the family unit, parented and cared for in the same way as their non narcissist siblings with no discernible differences.

Parenting a teen that is a true narcissist (and not a typical teenager) and managing an adult relationship with them must be a very difficult and exhausting experience.

Nothing you do will be enough, you can expect no reciprocity as the narcissist is unable to offer empathy, understanding or a different view from their own. They won't even be aware you have needs/wishes/worries. We often talk about 'narc parents' on here, and how damaging they are, but we very rarely discuss what it must be like if things are the other way around. Narcs are a bottomless pit emotionally, and will drain you of everything and still demand more. You can never be or do enough. I suspect Dora and Thomas are, and have always be in close contact because they have had to work out how to parent such a child and will need support from each other as she has become an adult. It is not something most parents would be willing to share with those outside the family, so they know what she is like, and now the rest of the world has seen what she is like as well through her actions and interviews.

There is no cure for narcissism. They do not respond well to therapy and usually challenge robustly any suggestion of serious self reflection. The therapy will end with the client talking relentlessly about themselves, without any self reflection or work. As a result many therapists choose not to work with them, or limit their expectations of what can be achieved.

"The silence is deafening. It’s like they’re dead but you can’t grieve them and you also have to deal with feelings of anger, rejection, worthlessness and profound sadness. IMO it’s something you can never move on from because you’re stuck in a limbo with no closure, hoping that someday they might want to have you in their life again even though you rationally know they don’t deserve to."
I have no interest in the Royals so not posting on that, and assume this has happened to you. If so, I'm so sorry you are going through this. It isn't true that people "always" know what they've done and "always" deserve it (although if you've done this to a family member I can see why you would want to believe this). Toxic family dynamics, misunderstandings or just a personality clash can be the cause. As for some of the comments on here, I'm pretty new to MN and while, for the most part, people on here come across as kind and thoughtful, there are occasionally huge pile ons where really unkind and mean spirited stuff is posted, and this thread seems to have elements of that. I hope that you can reconcile at some point if that's what you want, or find some peace with the situation if not.🙏

i have a sister in law who has done this to my in laws. I’m a fairly objective bystander (I have no particular beef with either party) but my sister in law is ridiculous

You were not there when most of the damage was being done LisaSimpson1984 so I don't think you should assume your SIL is being 'ridiculous'. I very much doubt you know the family on a very deep level, have zero observations of their childhood and therefore simply can not judge the situation accurately at all.

Your unhelpful contribution of calling her things like ridiculous shows you are not a neutral person in this, for sure you have fully taken the side of the parents, so you should own that - but know you are only know half the story - the rest has been hidden away from you.

I can't stand Harry and Meghan, I think they're a shameless pair of grifters and nothing will ever excuse that Oprah interview. I don't want to see them at the Jubilee, and will be turning off all coverage as a result. Equally I have no wish to see Andrew either before the "Andrew is worse" crowd start waving their placards as they seem to on every f*ing thread about these two

She and her Dad seem quite happy to use the media when it suits them - I'd say they're cut from the same cloth and that's probably why they don't get on.

It smells bad of making money from her fame

But it’s fine for her to make money from Harry’s family background?

Zero sympathy for her with this. She’s more than happy to use the media for her own gain, hurting her husbands family in the process. But her father can’t do the same?

I have no contact with my parents because I just don't like them very much. There was no abuse. They were OK parents, in the context of the 1970s. I have never discussed this with them. I just don't understand why we have to stay in touch with people we wouldn't otherwise choose, simply because of a biological connection. Maybe I am the one at fault, but life's too short to worry about these things.
There may be all sorts of problems on all sides in the Markle family, but let's not make assumptions of "abuse" when we have absolutely no idea.

There are toxic people, and obviously he is one of them. The only solution to get free from those people is to cut them off.

Maybe when she’s ‘replayed’ everything, she’s actually ‘rewritten’ it instead. My parents did that. The son saying ‘they add nothing to my life’ is similar to what I say when I don’t want to be dragged into a conversation about my parents that I cut off for very valid reasons. Whilst they want to talk about it and tell everyone they’ve done nothing (they have), I just don’t really want to be questioned over it. It’s done. I wouldn’t attend funerals either and ignore and contact made. They know why, as will the people is your post in all likelihood.

Hbh17 I am glad to read such honesty.
It gets a bit wearing to hear families on the receiving end are invariably "toxic."

It is not abusive to cut someone out of your life to protect your own mental health.

He has had years now to just shut up and try to reconcile and have a relationship with his daughter again, but no, instead he has become Piers Morgan's sidekick in attacking his daughter, doesn't he even have a youtube channel about his daughter. I remember on one Piers Morgan interview he said something to the effect of 'it's time to show your daddy the money' ! He is despicable and vengeful, as are his kids.

Sadly, I think Meghan herself has shown she also has that side of his character.

Meghan has not been smart at all

It would have been far better for her to remain on cordial but very distant terms with her father and siblings. They would then be less likely to sell stories about her and drag her into embarrassing court cases, and she would look like the bigger person.

Meghan needed to 'manage' them far better than she has, because now regardless of who is at fault, the situation has damaged her greatly. She is seen to be the callous one, whilst her father is having had two known heart attacks and now a stroke only asks to meet his grandchildren, she continues to ignore him. It is doing untold damage to her branding, which is what she is relying on to provide financially for her and her children in the future. This will be compounded if he dies. Meghan has far more skin in the game than her father, and far more to lose. What does he care, he can keep this running indefinitely.

Meghan is a narcissist of that I am certain, but her father has not behaved well either, selling any story about his daughter is one story too many in my view. Knowing this was blowing up at the beginning Meghan should have taken the chance to protect her creditability at least by keeping an arms length connection. Sometimes it is about damage limitation when your life is in the public eye, given what is riding on it in terms of her future financial security.

You are only as strong as your weakest link and Meghan has many weak links, and it is not as simple as pretending they don't exist.

MrsTerryPratchett · Today 02:09
I think there is almost always a bloody good reason someone cuts their parent off. IME 9 times out of 10 it's a toss up between childhood trauma and personality disorder in the parent.
I totally agree that’s my experience too
ExDP was NC with his family classic toxic stately home types - it was a great relief to me too and helped his MH when he made the break

It's victim blaming in some cases.
There are enough selfish people out there to make this a real phenomenon.
I also think it's not even unusual to find one's parents tiresome ( I did for at least a decade, shame on me) since the Bible found it necessary to put a commandment in about it!

I think it's naive to take sides. Neither of them will be perfect, nor always tell the truth. People will always paint themselves in a good light. Forgiveness and tolerance of the others failings is the key. I always like to listen to two sides of a story. The truth is probably somewhere in between.

This.

There is always a back story.

No one cuts off a close family member without having reason to. Its a extreme response.

You might want to look at yourself rather than accusing Markle of being unreasonable when you have fuck all idea about whats happened.

Although we only have his side of the story where he claims she hasn’t been in contact (actually is it how, or SM’s story)

Didn’t he say the same thing after the wedding photos when actually both H&M had been in contact?

This is the truth for some people. There is not always a massive back story.

'I think there is almost always a bloody good reason someone cuts their parent off. IME 9 times out of 10 it's a toss up between childhood trauma and personality disorder in the parent.'

In which case going by all his overshared moans why hasn't Harry his family off completely. Oh wait, because he needs the RF profile/connections for his American fans. He needs the platinum jubilee fanfare.

I totally understand people being estranged from family, but these 2 need to sort out a bit of consistency here. Is running to the media and telling tales ok or not?!

The bible commandment has absolutely nothing to do with forcing people to maintain a relationship with toxic parents. It was written for a nomadic people where the custom was to leave frail relatives behind in the wilderness when they moved on.