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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want my friend to move out

167 replies

ImNotBossyImtheBoss · 30/05/2022 17:25

My friend of 20 years, Christine, has lived (lodged?) with me and my husband for the last 5 years. At the beginning we needed the extra money for the mortgage, we are both good friends with Christine and the set up worked well for us all.

The last 5 years have been intense, Christine became very physically unwell and her mental health suffered as a result, we supported her through this. (She has no living family, which is very relevant, we are her support network.) We all went through lockdowns etc. together.

Last year my husband and I had a baby, so now we have a lovely one year old DD. I have found it hard being both her support system and caring for my DD. Additionally she works shifts and trying to keep a baby quiet around someone sleeping in the day is stressful!

In general she is a happy, helpful addition to our household but I'm starting to feel a bit done with having another person about the place. However I would feel horrendous kicking her out. After such a long time this is very much her home too, I know she doesn't want to live alone or with strangers. I don't think our friendship would be the same if I asked her to leave, and I would miss her.

An aside: she has also never babysat our daughter, which she is well placed to do as she sees her everyday! We've asked twice but she said she'd prefer not, which I understand, we decided to have a baby knowing we don't have a support system nearby. But it's also sad when it's been over a year and you just want your friend to give you one night out with your spouse!

I would just like her to not be here half the time! (Reading it, I can see IABU, she isn't a friend to be there only when it's convenient to me.)

She pays a going rate to lodge with us, and this is set up as her permanent address re. electoral roll, bills, etc. I.e. this is not a casual living arrangement.

OP posts:
DockOTheBay · 31/05/2022 10:28

Tandora · 30/05/2022 23:28

I’m going to go against the grain here- it sounds like you want to evict her because you’re a bit hurt/ offended that she wont babysit? I can completely understand why she wants to keep that boundary- if she didn’t she might worry where it would end. she pays the full market rent to lodge with you , so you are in no sense doing her a favour- you are profiting from her. why should she be required to offer you free childcare (in addition to presumably paying off your mortgage).

Maybe because the OP and her husband have provided her with mental and physical support for the last 5 years when she was ill. Its not a normal lodger/landlord relationship.

Derbee · 31/05/2022 11:02

All this talk about whether she’s a tenant or a lodger are irrelevant. It’s YOUR home, and it’s only HER home until you decide it’s not.

The 6 month Covid notice periods are over anyway. The max you’d need to give her is 2 months notice, which seems fair for a friend.

Presumably you’re not holding an official deposit from her in a deposit scheme etc, so she’s a lodger with very few rights to notice etc anyway.

Flossyhair · 31/05/2022 11:11

What happens if you want to have another child or your little one has her friends round when she gets older, how will you keep everything quiet for your friend?

What happens if in the futue her health deteriorates further and you end up taking on even more responsibility for her an her declining physical and mental health?

Seriously, it's time to give her notice. This is beyond the boundaries of a healthy lodger/landlord/friendship.

Give her notice and she will have to negotiate her own wants and needs for new accommodation and compromise like everyone else has to.

Inklingpot · 31/05/2022 12:05

PerseverancePays · 30/05/2022 17:43

Difficult conversation needs to be had. Would it be worth taking on additional debt to build her a granny annex so that she would still be part of the household but more separate?
If you were going to have a meeting to discuss this , then I would suggest the following agenda:
Arrange a mutually convenient time to have the meeting.
Outline what you think the problem is, take your time with this. Don't drag in or allow anyone else to drag in other issues , like her lack of giving anything back as in babysitting , stick to one problem, that her living with you is not working for you anymore.
Once you have the problem thrashed out, suggest solutions, don't evaluate them or shoot them down, just brainstorm.
Evaluate,
Choose a solution,
Arrange to reconvene to see if the solution is working and if it needs tweaking.

I feel for you, it's going to be a tough conversation, but ultimately it's your house and your life, and if it's not working anymore, then it's not working.

This is right up there with the poster who told an LL she should gift the house to her tenant.

Dashdotdotdash · 31/05/2022 12:10

Tandora · 31/05/2022 09:37

This is the crux of the problem- people (including OP it seems , aren’t understanding this)- If she pays full market rent it’s her home. Tenants have rights. OP is her landlord but as long as friend is paying rent it’s her home.

She's not a tenant, she's a lodger. Completely different position legally.

Dashdotdotdash · 31/05/2022 12:14

Maybe start paving the way by allowing your child to live normally without having to be quiet during the day?

BadLad · 31/05/2022 12:30

Inklingpot · 31/05/2022 12:05

This is right up there with the poster who told an LL she should gift the house to her tenant.

That suggestion was nowhere near as illogical as it sounds. The OP on that thread had inherited a run-down house with a tenant whom it would have been impossible to evict, who was locked into an agreement to pay a miniscule amount of rent, and for whom she would have been obliged to spend a considerable sum on renovations to keep the house in liveable condition. Giving the house to the tenant probably wasn't the best course of action but it wasn't totally without its advantages. This annex suggestion is far sillier.

Stellamar · 31/05/2022 12:50

She surely can't have imagined that she would live with you forever.

It sounds like you have given her a lot of support during what was an immensely challenging time for you as new parents. Please don't feel bad or guilty about telling her that it's time to move on.

Astralis · 31/05/2022 13:02

In some ways the hard part is over: you and your husband agree that now is the time to move on from having a lodger. You just need to stay on course.

I would suggest that before speaking to her, you decide between yourselves what message you will give. Be clear, give a short message, be impersonal and don't take on her problems as yours to fix.

So: "As we discussed before xx was born, life has changed a lot! It's clear that having a lodger doesn't fit with family life the way it used to, so we wanted to talk to you about moving forward. We know that lodgers only require 28 days notice to leave but we can extend that to two months. (Don't offer to help her find a place otherwise you'll get drawn into why "this one's not suitable either").
I know that this was inevitable at some point, it's not like any of us expected you to be our lodger forever, and we'll still spend time together as friends.

As an aside, you might find that moving out is the making of her. She'll probably be reluctant to make the change but she'll eventually gain a bit of independence and confidence.

pigwood · 31/05/2022 13:45

@ImNotBossyImtheBoss you have both given her SO much more than lodging and there is nothing wrong with saying to her that you both want to be back on your own for the benefit of your new little family unit . If you give her excuses to make it less difficult for you to tell her , she will likely try and talk you round and give you reasons why she can't move out. I think you and your husband will have to dig your heels in and tell her up front that you need her to move out , give her a definite timeline for this or I doubly she will go. It's a hard situation and you've been a wonderful friend but she sounds a bit like an emotional drain !

QueenWatevraWaNabi · 31/05/2022 15:03

If not now, then when? You don't want to be posting on gransnet about this when you're 80 and she's still never moved out!

Cherrysoup · 31/05/2022 15:33

I’d just add, give her a moving out date and be firm, don’t let it drag on for months. Also, don’t tolerate any nonsense re her needing to save for 6 months for a deposit etc or help her with rent. She isn’t your responsibility. I’m horrified that you’re having to subdue your child’s noise in her own house due to the lodger!

DFOD · 31/05/2022 17:23

There are two dynamics going on here.

First: Lodger / Land lord which seems to have worked well. Transactional in nature and suitable for both parties. The point that a PP made stating that the OP benefited more because she owned the property is wrong because it’s irrelevant to the transaction.

So overall this seems a balanced and acceptable arrangement to both parties.

Second: Friendship. This has been one sided and disappointing for at least a year. The OP has supported her friend unendingly even compromising her own experience of motherhood. The OP senses / knows now that her friend does not have the same family values or any notions of reciprocity in friendship when it came to her newborn baby daughter. That must sting.

I agree with @billy1966 (as ever) that this friend is not as “fragile” as you think. She will be fine and it’s important that you prioritise your own little family without any feelings of guilt or obligation to Christine.

milkyaqua · 31/05/2022 22:33

It's very easy to read and think: what a pair of saps. But she is our friend, she isn't some random lodger and like a lot of situations it didn't become this way over night, little by little shifts...

You don't sound like saps. You sound really warm and nice and caring, but it is time to be a warm, nice, caring family of three.

I am a bit gobsmacked that this friend has not reciprocated with even a night out for you, looking after the baby while you two relax, after all the care you've shown her. I should think anyone that resolutely self-centred should have the grit and wherewithal to find another place to lodge/live, but fully expect you will be showered with reluctance, excuses, obligation, and guilting, as she seems to be keen to protect her own comforts (at your/the baby's expense).

drpet49 · 31/05/2022 22:57

Give her notice to move out. You have your child to think about.

KettrickenSmiled · 01/06/2022 22:47

PerseverancePays · 30/05/2022 17:43

Difficult conversation needs to be had. Would it be worth taking on additional debt to build her a granny annex so that she would still be part of the household but more separate?
If you were going to have a meeting to discuss this , then I would suggest the following agenda:
Arrange a mutually convenient time to have the meeting.
Outline what you think the problem is, take your time with this. Don't drag in or allow anyone else to drag in other issues , like her lack of giving anything back as in babysitting , stick to one problem, that her living with you is not working for you anymore.
Once you have the problem thrashed out, suggest solutions, don't evaluate them or shoot them down, just brainstorm.
Evaluate,
Choose a solution,
Arrange to reconvene to see if the solution is working and if it needs tweaking.

I feel for you, it's going to be a tough conversation, but ultimately it's your house and your life, and if it's not working anymore, then it's not working.

Would it be worth taking on additional debt to build her a granny annex so that she would still be part of the household but more separate?
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Astralis · 01/06/2022 23:30

Indeed! The absolute cheek of expecting poor Christine to live through the renovations and one finished, move into a granny annexe when she's used to having the house itself. The OP should just live in a tent with her family. 😂

ImNotBossyImtheBoss · 02/06/2022 04:33

We've decided to go with granny annex option

OP posts:
ImNotBossyImtheBoss · 02/06/2022 04:41

We talked, agreed it was for best and agreed a move out deadline in a couple of months.

It went more smoothly than we imagined so obviously it's been on Christine's mind too.

Feel like I've kicked a puppy, but also a massive weight has been lifted. The situation wasn't sustainable and now the end is in sight.

OP posts:
BadLad · 02/06/2022 04:42

If you were kind friends, you'd move your family into the granny flat and leave the rest of the house to Christine.

You sound vile.

NaughtyDaddyPig · 02/06/2022 04:49

BadLad · 02/06/2022 04:42

If you were kind friends, you'd move your family into the granny flat and leave the rest of the house to Christine.

You sound vile.

🤣🤣🤣

skybluee · 02/06/2022 04:53

I was a lodger. It actually was an amazing deal as I got to live in a lovely area (Harborne, Birmingham) in a massive house for £350 including all bills (except for phone) in 2007. The lady was also away a lot. It was advertised wrongly as a flat, which is why I went to view, had not been considering being a lodger before, but I was blown away by how nice the house and garden were, it has three floors. I also knew I'd save a lot of money. Anyway, the notice period was one month, so I think giving Christine a couple of months (considering the length of time she's been there) is reasonable.
I think you've made the right decision and sounds like it will work out for all of you.

milkyaqua · 02/06/2022 06:51

Well done, OP. Better times ahead now.

QueenWatevraWaNabi · 02/06/2022 07:52

We've decided to go with granny annex option

Are you the same OP as the swimming pool lady?! 🧐😂

Well done for having the chat and agreeing a date. If it feels like a massive weight has been lifted, then it's definitely the right decision.

ChagSameachDoreen · 02/06/2022 08:02

Would it be worth taking on additional debt to build her a granny annex so that she would still be part of the household but more separate?

Are you fucking insane?