To want my friend to move out

[ImNotBossyImtheBoss]

My friend of 20 years, Christine, has lived (lodged?) with me and my husband for the last 5 years. At the beginning we needed the extra money for the mortgage, we are both good friends with Christine and the set up worked well for us all.

The last 5 years have been intense, Christine became very physically unwell and her mental health suffered as a result, we supported her through this. (She has no living family, which is very relevant, we are her support network.) We all went through lockdowns etc. together.

Last year my husband and I had a baby, so now we have a lovely one year old DD. I have found it hard being both her support system and caring for my DD. Additionally she works shifts and trying to keep a baby quiet around someone sleeping in the day is stressful!

In general she is a happy, helpful addition to our household but I'm starting to feel a bit done with having another person about the place. However I would feel horrendous kicking her out. After such a long time this is very much her home too, I know she doesn't want to live alone or with strangers. I don't think our friendship would be the same if I asked her to leave, and I would miss her.

An aside: she has also never babysat our daughter, which she is well placed to do as she sees her everyday! We've asked twice but she said she'd prefer not, which I understand, we decided to have a baby knowing we don't have a support system nearby. But it's also sad when it's been over a year and you just want your friend to give you one night out with your spouse!

I would just like her to not be here half the time! (Reading it, I can see IABU, she isn't a friend to be there only when it's convenient to me.)

She pays a going rate to lodge with us, and this is set up as her permanent address re. electoral roll, bills, etc. I.e. this is not a casual living arrangement.

It's good that you're not going to mention the babysitting issue. Similarly, don't make too much of the issue of having to keep quiet during the day so that she can sleep. She might offer to remedy that by giving up shift work for normal work hours. Simply focus on the fact that you and your husband want to have the house to yourselves so that you can have a conventional family life.
Good luck for the difficult discussion ahead.

We’ve loved having you here, and all living together, but it’s not really working any more. Since we had the baby, it’s been more apparent that we need our private space back, and to live as a family of 3. Keeping DD quiet with your shift work etc is unfair on her, and is clearly not going to work for any of us. It’s been a really enjoyable 5 years, but I think it’s time that we all made other plans now. Anything we can do to help smooth the transition to whatever your new arrangements are, just let me know. This has been difficult to bring up, and I really hope you understand that changes need to happen for all of our benefit.

The fact of the matter is that if she pays normal rates, she's not obligated to babysit.

On the flip side, it sounds as if she's received a huge amount of emotional support from you that's gone unreciprocated.

You can't expect to keep a baby quiet during the the day and that means the situation is no longer working for either of you as she works shifts.

Yes, this will change your relationship but maybe for the better? It's well past a time for her to be independent and you to focus on the needs of your family.

As a pp said, there is no need to make it personal.

Your family simply is not in a position to have/need a lodger anymore. Any lodger.

After 5 years, she also should be in a position to move on and a home with a small child isn't going to work for her either if she needs to sleep in the daytime.

So speak to her and focus on the facts.

Don't mention about babysitting as it blurs the lines. Keep it simple - that times have changed and it's not going to work for either of you moving forward - and give her 3 months notice to find somewhere else to live.

You let her move into your house 5, years ago and she has being paying the rent rate for your area. You then supported her when she had issues with her mental health. After all the help you gave her she won't even mind your baby to give you and your husband a few hours break. Then she expects you to keep a baby quite when she sleeps due to shift hours. You can't even bring a few other friends who are mother's around with their babies because she is their.

To be honest she should have been looking for a new place to live when you were pregnant. She can't be supprised when you ask her to move out and she has had 5 years to prepair for this day.

I chat to your husband and decide how long are willing to give as a notice period.

Good luck.

Trying to keep a baby quiet in their own house for her shift work is ridiculous.

Other posters have said it will be harder with a toddler and they're right. Will your daughter be able to have friends over to play etc in the day?

She must know its coming... !

And the granny flat suggestion wtf? Just build her a flat? That's insane!!

OP, does your friend have any long term plans of her own or is she intending to live with you indefinitely?

The whole situation with her continuing to live with you now that you have a baby is slightly bizarre and it is time for her to move on.

She was happy for the boundaries to be blurred when op and her DH were providing her with care for her physical and mental health.

Just to add, put it in writing and be clear about how much notice you are giving,say she must be out by a certain date. I have the feeling that if you don't the situation will just roll on forever.

This.

Actually, I think your friend sounds quite selfish. I can't imagine having a friend who's done so much for me and then not want to do a bit of occasional babysitting for them. It seems to be all on her terms. And if you feel like she's the kind of person that would no longer be friends with you because you asked her to move out, then that says an awful lot about her and not you!

Does your husband not want the house back too? Can you not have a joint discussion and explain that you both need your space. You can still spend a lot of time together, so there's no reason why it has to change your friendship that much. You are actually being a bit unreasonable by putting her feelings above those of your husband, yourself and your baby to this extent.

Good luck speaking to her op. Be strong though! Stick to it.

However I would feel horrendous kicking her out. After such a long time this is very much her home too,

You are not “kicking her out” - it is not “horrendous” it’s just a new chapter and change of plan which happens in all contractual situations. It’s also not “her” home - she is a lodger.

I find it really sad that you say you found it hard to support her MH and physical health alongside having your new baby. You shouldn’t have been put in that compromising situation.

Don’t make any excuses about noise, au pairs etc as people find workarounds - just new chapter and notice - no need to defend, explain, apologise or justify your decision - landlords don’t do this.

I also think keep it factual and simple and rinse and repeat (once) if she gets emotional and then walk away and let it sink in etc - because in reality you are justifiably disappointed in her behaviour but I suspect someone with MH issues will take that information badly and you just don’t need to get drawn into that space.

Know that you have been an exemplary friend - your support should have encouraged her independence and it’s clearly now your time to prioritise yourself, your motherhood, marriage and family.

I hope it goes well. I have a feeling it won’t. Just weather any initial storm and stay calm and focused - don’t get stuck in any notions of obligation or guilt.

Life changes, it does suit you to have a lodger any longer. This is fine. Agree dont bring up the babysitting, more the way your house has moved from a couples house that fitted with a friend in it into a family home.

The babysitting sounds hard though, has it meant that you have felt unable to hire a babysitter as Christine has been in the house, and it would be weird to expect them to sit together, so effectively her refusal to babysit has meant you've been unable to go out as a couple?

This.

She'll be just fine.

She has some neck and rock solid boundaries that she wouldn't so much as give you a few hours babysitting after all you have done.

She is 100% in touch with what suits HER.

No babysitting whatsoever and you being quiet in YOUR home?

OP, your boundaries are poor and you have been used

Send @NellesVilla email and move this "friend" out.

You have been her carer for years.

I think it is simply awful that you have allowed this woman to take so much energy from you during your babys first year.

She is not a great friend to you, she has you exactly where she wants you.

Send the email.

When she is gone, you will so regret not having done it sooner.

The responses on this thread are bizarre! OP has not done her friend a favour. Her friend is paying full market rent. It is therefore her home too. OP needed the money for her mortgage. Friend is not morally indebted and therefore required to offer free baby sitting.

Not the same situation, as I’m only staying in my friends guest room for 12 weeks due to a rental fuck up, (with my DCs!) but I’ve already plugged a few childcare gaps for them, and will do so my entire stay and beyond as I’m moving to the next village over (relocated for various reasons), and I’m doing an integrated Masters/PhD over the next few years so will be able to continue to assist when needed.

I’m a lone parent to 3DC so could easily say “sorry, don’t want to, already got too many kids” - but I adore their DC, our DCs adore each other, they’re wonderful friends who have saved me thousands in AirBnB fees, travel and stress, so I figure it’s the very least I can do.

You are right not the same situation at all!! You are a guest in your friends house and not paying full market rent

Mumsnet is bizarre sometimes. No one owes you free childcare unless you are their landlord / they are your tenant!

OP hasn't suggested they do. But the friend might reflect on the fact that no-one owed her free care through her physical and mental health crises.

OP, you say that you want your friend to act more like your sister/ baby’s aunt and therefore be willing to babysit sometimes so you can go out, but would you charge your sister full market rent for a room in your house and use that money for the mortgage (ie accrue capital for yourself)?

Tbh when it comes to me and my sister, I doubt she’d be up for babysitting my infant/ toddler. On the other hand if she were living in my house, I’d at the very least offer mates rates.

OP your friend is a friend and no more. You entered into a transactional relationship regarding living arrangements, which suited you both , and benefited you financially more than it did her.
Of course as her landlord you are entitled to evict her if the arrangement no longer suits you, but YABU for even mentioning the babysitting as it has nothing to do with anything.

All friends provide mutual support to each other through health issues-
unless it went beyond the ordinary levels of care? Perhaps OP could provide more details? Later in the post she describes her friend as a “happy and helpful” housemate.

It’s not fair on your child to expect them to be quiet all day in their own home , and can’t believe she wont to babysit - she obviously doesn’t see herself as part of the family,

Of course she is not morally indebted to babysit because she's our lodger. But as other posters have said the lines have become very blurred with us taking care of her a lot: cooking meals, driving her about etc. Which is why, now she is better, it feels like it was all one sided.

I felt like we were more family/friends, but she doesn't want that relationship with our daughter, so obviously we're not.

We won't be getting another lodger, we can afford the mortgage ourselves it was a specific situation that suited us all at the time.

LOL to all the au pair, granny annex comments. We do not have the space, means or inclination to build a granny annex. And I want my house back so an au pair sounds awful.

Also the timelines are relevant I became pregnant during the pandemic, when Christine was unwell. Not a straightforward time for anyone to be sorting out new accommodation. We did talk about what would happen when the baby came and that if it didn't suit either of us then she would move out. But somehow between then and now there's been loads of boundary creep with us making lots of concessions.

My husband also thinks it's time we're on our own again. He was hoping she would just decide to leave so we wouldn't have to have the conversation (I mean didn't we all!?). He will be talking to her with me.

It's very easy to read and think: what a pair of saps. But she is our friend, she isn't some random lodger and like a lot of situations it didn't become this way over night, little by little shifts...

It's been 5 years. That's a long time.

Frame the chat in a way that makes it clear it can't continue but you want to help however you can. As others have said, the fact that you've become her carers mean it's not normal lodger relationship, she's asking for more than you can give now.

Yes, a baby in a pandemic, her perhaps preferring the less ideal situation of sharing with a family, not just a couple over being on her own when unwell and facing the possibility of another lockdown... definitely can see how things would creep.

And yes, fine to say you won't babysit, but then being in the house rules out the option of a paid external babysitter without it seeming rude to her, so effectively limits your life options. And yes, paying market rent should mean some consideration re noise when on night shifts, but then not really suitable in family home... its all a set up you fell into but wouldn't have chosen.

Onwards and upwards. Have the chat. If she can find somewhere nearby you'll still be able to help her.

Offering someone a lift or cooking them a meal is not the same as looking after an 18 month tot for an evening. I’ve had plenty of friends who’ve done the former for me on many many occasions. I’ve never asked a friend to babysit my small kids , or done it for a friend.

Of course you are free to ask your friend to move out, but I think you are being unfair by being “put out” by having the conversation/ her not realising she should move out on her own. She is not your guest. She pays full price, she’s lived there five years, it’s her home too.