To cut DD off?

[BrokenToy]

DD is 18 (just). She’s been living pretty much at her boyfriend’s house for months now.

She informed me the other week that she doesn’t live at home anymore and so we’d have to pay her to babysit/dog sit for our weekend away. Weekend away had been booked for over a year. We were left with no choice but to stump up cash (we were already paying for a takeaway for her and the BF) or lose hundreds of pounds of concert tickets/hotel.

She sent me a text on Saturday about needing new jeans. I didn’t respond. She then phoned me yesterday screaming down the phone that I’m abusive and neglectful and leaving her without clothes. Two weeks ago I gave her £50 to buy summer clothes for the holiday we are taking her on in July. She is constantly asking for small bits of cash here and there (tampons, printer credit for college, things like that that she knows we won’t say no to) and DH and I have just realised this adds up to £155 so far this month…

I’m done. I’m about ready to say fine, you’ve moved out, no more monthly bus pass, pocket money, clothes, takeaways. She works five hours a week and could work more. She smokes and drinks. She’s using us purely as a bank and only contacts us when she needs a top up. I also really really don’t want to take her on holiday but that’s a sunk cost and at least it’s AI so she won’t be asking for cash.

I'd have concerns about an 18yo who has recently received £500 plus has a small wage and allowance, few outgoings and is making frequent asks for money in an angry and desperate fashion. Ring the college, OP and tell them you have safeguarding concerns. Maybe your daughter would or even has already disclosed something to a teacher.

One of my children went through a stage like this. Things got better as they matured. It did hurt dreadfully at the time.

One thing I wonder about is whether your DD can cope with the schoolwork. Lots of parents say things like their child would do okay if they put in more work. My FIL with a number of academically brilliant children insisted that his youngest daughter would do fine if she put in more work. She in fact had inherited none of her sibling's academic ability and needed quite a bit of help. It took my FIL time to accept that. Does your daughter have difficulties with say ADHD or dyslexia or is she just not very good at school? A young person who is doing badly at school is not usually a happy person about it. Would extra tutoring be the difference between her passing or not and would she go to it?

I think that desperately trying to get the approval of young people who behave like this is a mistake. It is obvious you are hurting a lot about largely being used as an ATM and it is so not what you thought having a daughter would be like. I wouldn't cut her off totally but you and your husband should agree on an amount that you can afford to pay her as an allowance to cover essential costs. I didn't expect my children to work during term time as I wanted them to focus on their academic work. I wouldn't be paying the BF's parents who, if they don't like the arrangement, should pack your daughter off home where she belongs rather than enabling her to swan back and forth like this. I wouldn't be rushing to contact your DD any time soon and I'd be a little bit more unavailable. Don't make a fuss of her when she comes home - don't rush off to greet her for example. I wouldn't be letting her know anything in future about takeaways or restaurant meals given the way she spoils the meal with her behaviour. I think you are probably stuck with taking her on holiday if it's already been planned but I wouldn't in future. If she realises she can't use you as a punching bag she might buck up her ideas.

At 17 I was on my own at university. My parents' rule was that the day we walked out the school gate for the last time, we had to support ourselves. That's really tough. I've allowed my own children a much more gradual transition.

I wonder whether your abusive relationship affected your ability to emotionally engage with your daughter? It happens. You come across as very cold. I’m sorry but you are the parent here and I think what you are contemplating is cruel.

Your ‘difficult’ DD has become a ‘difficult’ young adult. You say her father was abusive (to you? To her? Did she see or hear any of it?) You say her father has abandoned her and is no contact. How does she feel about that? You say she has a ‘temper’ - tbh I think she has many reasons to be angry. Has she ever had therapy? It sounds as if she has unresolved trauma to process. It’s not too late.

or you could carry on shrugging your shoulders and shaking your head over her disappointing behaviour, counting up how much money you spend on material goods for her, blaming her for her lack of gratitude.

If you choose to cut her off, be aware you are sending a message to ALL your children that if they disappoint you, you will stop loving them. Your 10 year old is watching.

She had therapy all through secondary school, alone and with me. She was violent to her peers, abusive to her teachers and was lucky to be allowed to stay at the school. Every single parents evening from primary onwards left me in tears.

She’s not been violent for a few years now thank god but the screaming rages still happen.

She’s never been easy and I probably have spoiled her somewhat to try and make her life a bit nicer. It’s backfired.

I probably do sound a bit cold about her but I’ve had years of trying to navigate her temper and she is so so vile to me that I’m pretty much running on empty.

She works five hours a week and could work more. She smokes and drinks. She’s using us purely as a bank

Yes she is. Cut her off. She needs to earn her own money.

Have I got this right? You give your dependent school age child £10 -12 a week to cover clothes, food, entertainment, college supplies, toiletries (and give nothing towards rent and utilities, expecting another family to subsidise her), and you get angry with her if she asks for money?

And you also don't give your Uni age son enough for him to buy new trainers when his old ones are worn out (BTW - since you are over the CB limit, the minimum contribution for you to give your son as per the government guidelines is approx £6k per year or £500/m year round, not just a "top up on rent").

All the while, you, your new DH and your child with your new DH live in a beautiful house with a huge mortgage, which prevents you from adequately supporting your children from your first marriage. And then you expect her to babysit/dogsit for free at your request.

Yep, I can see why she's acting out. Can you really not?

She's gone through the trouble of repeating year 12 so I think that sticking it out until year 13 is over would be a good cut off.

Iirc you're her employer so she could easily up her hours in school holidays?

My son has three showers a day and eats constantly. He has singing lessons that cost £20 a week, dinner money for college £30.00 a week and for doing the dishes and emptying the dishwasher he gets £100 a month. If he doesn't do a good job with the dishes his £100 is decreased. If I have to clean his room and his bathroom because he is being a slob I charge him £10. The money you are saving because your daughter is not living in your house most of the time is a huge amount! She is 18 years old. Stop demonising her and try to understand that she is NOT AN ADULT EMOTIONALLY just because she is 18 years old! Of course, explain to her that it is not acceptable the way she behaves towards you and if she wants a new pair of jeans she needs to do some chores etc. Why cut her off and give her nowhere to turn to? She is your child? Guide and help her with some boundaries which will allow negotiations within the relationship.

By the tone of your posts @BrokenToy you sound depressed and counselling may benefit you.

You are obviously distressed by the rejection from your daughter, however your resentment of her behaviour at every given interaction between you is probably worsening the situation and causing her to be withdrawn and to see the relationship as purely transactional.

In short you are meeting her with negativity and thus getting it in return.

I would arrange to meet with her and you can both write down in bullet points whatever your issues are to try and resolve them.

It’s quite common for parents to fund rent, bills, fees, transport and an allowance while their children are studying. Or to help them fill in the grant/loan forms etc if money is an issue so that they have independence and security.

You need to sit and define what you feel is the most you can pay monthly to support her. If she is not eating with you daily then why the resentment over paying for a family meal, and why so miserly on the clothing budget? £50 is not going to go far. She needs support to get her through her qualifications so that she can provide for herself in life, and support you if required later too…. Right now you’ve let another family pay for her bed and board and aren’t really contributing to her life at all in any sort of a substantial way financially/emotionally/physically. She needs you, step up.

You’ve come off so badly here OP. It sounds to me like she has a lot of issues - women and girls do so badly with autism diagnosis.

I think the term ‘cut off’ has wound people up, but I get your point. Regardless of whether she is living with you or not she can’t just ask for £60 for jeans and then give you abuse when you say no. At 19 it’s reasonable to give her a set amount and expect her to budget - maybe consider a more realistic amount based on what you’re actually spending on her and give her that and no more.

If she's old enough to move out, she's old enough to pay for her own stuff! She can work way more hours, even if she is at college - weekends, holidays, evenings!!

I wouldn't cut her off because if it all goes wrong with her bf, I'm sure you'd have her back? But I think you need to set some boundaries, stop enabling it and just say no to her. If she's abusive, so be it and ignore her - she has to learn somehow.

No you haven’t got that right. Any of it.

She isn’t expected to fund herself from her pocket money. We pay for all toiletries, clothes, everything essential. The £50 is fun money, plus her wages.

DS didn’t mention the trainers. He turned up yesterday and we commented on the brokenness of them and he laughed and said he hadn’t bothered replacing them and he’d rather spend cash on going out. Also we don’t have £6k a year to give him, who does?

DH is not new. We’ve been together for nearly sixteen years. We bought this house when the kids were 9 and 10, they’ve grown up in it fgs.

Some real (wilful?) misrepresentation going on there.

I left home at 18, had my own flat, attended college and paid my own way. My parents offered to help all the time

But it was never expected of them

Wait, is she in high school? If she's in high school, she is entitled to your full financial support. Not necessarily what she wants, but all her needs. I don't think I'd be paying towards any rent towards living out of my home though, unless really necessary. If I am willing and able to have them living at home full time, then they don't get to move out on my expenses unless the situation really requires it. But clothing, food, education costs, transport, all of that is mine for a high schooler.

Bloody hell the OP is getting a hard time on this thread, her DD sounds bloody awful and although I definitely don't think cutting her off is the answer, it does seem like the OP has tried a lot.

WHY are people so fixated on money on this thread and implying that the OP is stingy? Her daughter lives rent free with her BF's parents, earns £200 a month and has her travel and mobile phone paid for by the OP, plus £50 a month for spends and received £500 for her birthday last month!! OP has pleaded with her to come home, has offered the bf's parents money for her keep and yet apparently that isn't enough?! How much more should the OP give?

No wonder we are raising such a generation of entitled arseholes.

It's clear she has issues OP but how you go about sorting it I don't know. I would absolutely sit her down and explain calmly to her that you'll continue paying for her travel, phone and give her an allowance each month but nothing more unless it's a genuine emergency, she loses her job or it's bday/ christmas etc. I'd tell her that you love her very much but you find it hurtful that the only time she wants to speak or socialise with you is when she wants money.

I actually would still take her on holiday and use it as a chance to try and bond with her/ repair the relationship.

Oh give over is it a big task for her to stay at home one night as a favour to her parents! I bet she never paid a single penny in rent living there. Honestly, MNers seem to think child-parent relationships are one-way and you should bend over backwards for your brats whilst they show no respect.

That sounds like undiagnosed needs to me

Sorry my post keeps posting too soon. I left home at 18, on my own, went college, had a flat and paid my own way. My parents offered to help me with little things when it got tough financially, but I never screamed at them for help and I didn't expect it.
I bought my own clothes and toiletries etc.
If your daughter thinks she is old enough to leave home, then she is old enough to accept the responsibility that comes with it.

I forgot the £25 gym membership, £25 phone and watch contract, and he can earn extra income if he washes the cars (£25.00 for two cars). We are not high earners. I just budget this in so my son feels he has some control and earning capacity. He is doing 4 STEM A levels and he understands once he has passed these he will need to get a job he does do voluntary work in a nursing home at the moment though. Children cost money it's not their fault it's just the way of the world. Buy anything she needs directly so she cannot spend the money on cigarettes and alcohol. She's doing so well in college don't derail her now with this bullshit attitude. She will mature. Give her time.

Presumably you were not screaming down abuse on the phone with them?

You have clearly managed to break this type of vicious cycle and have come out the other side. But (I fear by reading many of the responses in this thread), you are the exception rather than the rule

I agree with all of your posts too cats my mindset was improved greatly by travelling extensively. Strangely 'being cut loose' (I was only seriously endangered a handful of times and sexually assaulted a few times en route - which now horrified me as an adult) it allowed me to experience life in other countries with other cultures. To observe other ways of raising children, the art of being gentle, being thoughtful. Being unconditionally loving. Questioning how we actually raise children in this country too as a result. Also having lots of MC friends and their parents were so relaxed and easy going, and their conversations were not fraught or controlling, but so normal talking casually about current affairs or the weekend plans. It was a world away from my life and the tension that pervaded. I could relax. So I spent the same time again enjoying life away from the stress of my childhood that op describes, and it helped no end in shaping my future and parenting decisions I took as an older mother.

I have paid the price for 'breaking the cycle' by not really having a family, they are still of the same 'mindset' and unfortunately sound exactly like the pp on here.

We are so different, and therefore I barely ever see or speak to them. I don't want the aggression, the mind games, the expectation I should be grateful for making it though alive, the lack of love or true emotion. There is nothing there I need in my life.

They called me a brat, a madam and much worse - and of course I was far from perfect, but actually most teens are just trying to survive the experience, and doing what they can to get by. The odd blow up due to the intense pressure, lack of support, lack of money and dire prospects of homelessness and loss of family is ever present are very hard to live with. Most teens are simply desperate to be loved, to be accepted for who they are. It causes a backlash when they feel rejected or abandoned.
The coldness op displays to her dd is chilling to me. I recognise the indifference, and know better than to suggest she tries to change. You can't magic up love or emotion. I imagine she has been through a lot, and on some level it has really affected/damaged her. Maybe op could get some help and counselling to reconnect with her own feelings?

I think op's dd is on her own - and will remain so if these posts are anything to go by. There does not seem to be much awareness from op about her part in how dd has turned out, or the impact of being around such abuse - and not having her biological father in her life. No particular wish to reflect or think about what could help and improve things. I hope her dd is one of the survivors, and doesn't full foul of the various traps that are out there ready for lost young girls with no anchor.

I vaguely remember your last thread. Your daughter is a very sly and manipulative girl. Something about how she works one evening a week at your restaurant, but won't work or stay a few hours longer to get a lift home with you. Instead, she demanded you pay for a taxi for her because she won't get the bus. Then she phoned her BF mother and told her you were making her walk home, so BF's mum came and collected her.

You're just going to have to keep saying no to giving her more money than she already gets. You can't afford it. Don't argue, don't debate, just say "sorry no I don't have any more to give". She will just have to learn to manage her money better. You'll be the worst person in the world of course but what can you do. Hopefully she'll grow up one day.

Interesting that she didn't quite meet the threshold for an autism diagnosis. Was that assessment on the NHS? I wonder if she might have PDA which can present very differently from 'classic' autism.

I think I can understand why you're sounding rather detached, it seems as if you're at the end of your tether. From what you've said her behaviour has been very challenging for a long time. If she has an undiagnosed condition and unmet needs, that might explain the behaviour, but it doesn't change the fact that it's taken a huge toll on the whole family and her relationships with you.

Sadly there's no magic solution. I do think that in order to protect yourself you need to put boundaries in place (ie no verbal abuse) but I am frankly amazed at some of the suggestions on this thread; block her?! I have no idea what parent in their right mind would prevent their 18yo child from contacting them. Ditto changing the locks - if she was trashing the house or stealing, I'd understand it, but she's not.

It's important for her to finish A-levels (or equivalent) as it's very difficult for young people who leave education/training before that point. Legally 18 is an adult, but the NMW for 18-20 year olds is £6.83/hour; hardly a huge amount to live on independently, especially given the rising cost of living.