To cut DD off?

[BrokenToy]

DD is 18 (just). She’s been living pretty much at her boyfriend’s house for months now.

She informed me the other week that she doesn’t live at home anymore and so we’d have to pay her to babysit/dog sit for our weekend away. Weekend away had been booked for over a year. We were left with no choice but to stump up cash (we were already paying for a takeaway for her and the BF) or lose hundreds of pounds of concert tickets/hotel.

She sent me a text on Saturday about needing new jeans. I didn’t respond. She then phoned me yesterday screaming down the phone that I’m abusive and neglectful and leaving her without clothes. Two weeks ago I gave her £50 to buy summer clothes for the holiday we are taking her on in July. She is constantly asking for small bits of cash here and there (tampons, printer credit for college, things like that that she knows we won’t say no to) and DH and I have just realised this adds up to £155 so far this month…

I’m done. I’m about ready to say fine, you’ve moved out, no more monthly bus pass, pocket money, clothes, takeaways. She works five hours a week and could work more. She smokes and drinks. She’s using us purely as a bank and only contacts us when she needs a top up. I also really really don’t want to take her on holiday but that’s a sunk cost and at least it’s AI so she won’t be asking for cash.

You sound fairly money oriented op, so maybe DD is taking after you. I think you want validation for cutting her off. She is technically an adult and can move out but as you are still her parent and like it or not are responsible for how she has turned out (although I suspect there is more background) then the least you can do is calmly explain how things will work now you are not supporting her, help her with a budget, and teach her some basic life skills. If you just keep up your part of this ongoing war between you while cutting her off then I doubt your relationship will recover.

since it’s clear you’re only here to needle and nitpick at the OP it’s probably better if you do

She is your daughter. I was a horrible teenager but am much more sensible now and a lot of this is probably related to teenage hormones and immaturity.

It would cost you something if she lived at home, possibly an allowance, extra food for meals, never-ending snacks, extra water, electric etc. I would try and have a calm conversation with her where you explain that you have calculated it would cost £x and because you have a limited budget you will transfer that amount to her at the beginning of each month but then she needs to budget that plus her wages as you cannot afford to give her extra. Whatever you calculate I would leave say £25 out and not give that to her and save that unbeknownst to her for emergencies. I would also tell her that you really love her but find it incredibly hurtful when she says how much she hates you so if she does that you will just end the conversation. Make it clear its not because you don't love her but because no one deserves to be treated like that. Tell her she always has a home with you.

I have huge guilt about how I treated my parents now but as a self-centred teenager I could not see the wood for the trees. Don't cut her off. This is just a phase, just as when she was two and having tantrums. Don't underestimate the power of hormones and teenage insecurities. Just try and stay calm and don't let her drag you into her drama.

Good luck OP - deep down she really needs you x

I'm not sure why your relationship with your dd is so bad, but it's clear from your posts that you're completely emotionally disengaged from her, whatever the cause. I'd probably focus on that first and foremost, and do whatever I could to fix it. I'm sure this is easier said than done, and there must be a considerable back story, but I personally couldn't just cut off my own child without looking at whether my own behaviour/ actions may have in some part contributed to the breakdown. Once you've reset your relationship, then you can have the conversions about what you may or may not be prepared to do for her financially and what your expectations are of one another.

I wish I could sit down with your daughter, give her a massive hug, and find out why she has taken herself away from a relationship with her family. She's desperate to be loved, and unfortunately for OP, she's found it from another family.

OP, you said she knows which buttons to press about you being an awful parent. Were you an awful parent? I'm sure not all of the time - but some of the time, or in some respects?

Sometimes we have to face our failures and the damage we've done - even though it was done accidentally or because we are ourselves damaged.

I think the bf parents are totally enabling this shitty and ridiculous situation. It’s not unlike the thread about the Australian 16yo with the controlling gf. The bf in this case, and the parents, may be delightful but it’s not “normal” or developmentally appropriate for a 17yo still in school to be co-habiting with a bf. I know millions of people will say “I met my bf at 16 and we are still together 40years later and the only thing my parents got me as an “adult” was a share in a packet of pork scratchings” but living with a bf at 17 (yes I know she is 18 now!) artificially accelerates the relationship. For some reason the bfs parent want the relationship between a pair of school kids to be accelerated. She’s already managed to fail lower sixth, she’s not managing her money well, she’s smoking and drinking, she’s stropping about, she’s unhappy, the relationship with her actual parents (and siblings) is decaying - this situation is not working and the other parents pretending it is is spectacularly unhelpful.
She is technically and adult at 18, but she’s also still in school and, dependent on parental income, would be eligible for child benefit for another 15 months or so. She isn’t being an independent adult, she smoking and drinking her wages and pocket money while a pair of unrelated adults feed and house her.

I would request the other parents tell her she is only allowed to stay over one night a week, and visit until 10pm 3 evenings a week, with a similar arrangement at the OPs home so the bf is fed and watered in a mutual way, sort out the money (x amount to cover phone, transport, toiletries, clothes etc.) and arrange some family therapy. I would get a dog/baby sitter to cover the weekend away. It’s a normal favour that normal family members do for each other but this isn’t normal.

If you say to the other parents “dd staying here so much is damaging to our relationship and impacting on her college work. Please can you only have her one night a week and bf can, of course, stay with us one night a week.” And they tell you to fuck off, they are keeping her, then at least you know what you are dealing with.

I have no solutions for you. My sister is exactly like this - it's all pay for play with her. I eventually started saying no to her frequent requests for £££ in my late 20s and surprise, surprise she has nothing to do with me. She's found new people to manipulate and use.

Since she's still in education I think it's fair enough to pay directly for her bus and phone and give her the rest of her child benefit, but nothing more. It won't matter what you do - you'll always be the bad guy to the boyfriend and his parents. They are choosing to believe what she says rather thinking of the bigger picture. If you are so awful why does she keep going out with you, etc?

She’s an inbetweener isn’t she.
She hasn’t left home really as she can’t manage on her own but because she has a strong character she wants to impress on you that, by staying at her boyfriend’s house, she really is completely independent, - an adult with her own mind, living her life freely.
She actually knows, deep down, that she isn’t properly independent because her little problem of finances keeps spoiling the illusion for her and she gets more and more upset and defensive about having to keep asking you for cash. She can’t rationalise any of that yet as she’s a little too immature -in spite of having a strong personality. Therefore she screams and shouts and acts irrationally.
In the meantime, I would play along with her a little bit more and let her know that you are happy that she is working towards independence because you love her dearly and while this situation of her having moved out isn’t what you expected or wanted as you miss her and prefer to have her at home with you still, you do nevertheless want to support her properly on that path to independence.
Invite her to a family meal to talk properly about her having moved out and to brainstorm ideas for financial support. Invite her bf along too if she wants him to come.
Ask her how much she thinks she needs each month and how much she thinks she is costing her boyfriend’s parents. Impress on her that they have to be paid for the expenses she incurs at their house. After all, she isn’t their responsibility, she is yours and you insist you must manage that responsibility properly so that she can go forward without any problems in the future -eg they may be lovely people but resentment could easily still set in after a while and you don’t want her to ever feel uncomfortable where she is living as it might affect her studies. Or the relationship might change at some point making it difficult for her to stay if she isn’t paying for herself properly as lodger.
At the same time, impress on her that your budget simply doesn’t allow for branded clothing for any of you, - or for her alcohol or cigarettes.
When you have come up with a figure that her lifestyle costs which includes rent, food, utilities, Council tax, clothing, personal products etc, tell her that in order to come up with that extra amount of money to pay out to her (minus what she herself earns) you will be renting out her ensuite room because you can’t afford to keep it free for her to keep popping back. Unless she has any other ideas of course, like working more hours to help pay for her independence herself.
Then suggest that she should now take time to think about and talk about her expenses with her boyfriend and his parents while you go about finding a lodger for her room.

Tell her she should then get back to you within say a week, with a complete breakdown of her financial needs, item by item, all topped up into a final figure for her monthly allowance for your consideration as this will give you some indication then of your own budget and how you are going to meet it with a lodger.
if she shouts and screams, stay calm and loving but simply walk out of the room and give her time to calm down before going back in again to resume the conversation. It will be a difficult conversation for her but it will hopefully bring home to her that she can not act in such an entitled way any more.
Good luck. Hope you can find a loving way forward with her without cutting her off.

She’s 18 and at college, unless you cannot afford to support her she is still your child and in education, so no she shouldn’t work more than 5 hours if she wants to achieve good grades for a good future? College is the full time job already! How is she paying for rent/food? Do you want her to be financially reliant on a random 18 year old boyfriend?

My guess is that your new DH isn’t her dad and that’s why she’s been forced out of the family home and isn’t supported by you.

Op you might find some counselling or therapy useful to try and unpick what has happened with your dd. Something has gone wrong somewhere.

Does she engage with anyone else in the family? Her dad, siblings, aunts etc?

I think I'd try and get the bfs mum on side, can you meet up with her again for coffee? Talk about how hard it is and see if she has any ideas for improving relations?

Your dd sounds angry and she obviously resents you. Until you can get to the bottom of that anger you won't get anywhere.

I agree with pp, something has gone very wrong. I know that technically she's an adult (just), but she's in full time education and needs good support. You need to speak to the KS5 year manager or support team, they should know that she's not living in the family home, apart from anything else. That alone would raise a couse for concern where I work, 18th birthday or not.

@Swayingpalmtrees I agree - there are two very different outlooks on this thread.

my parents were working class - but supported me until I was 22 and had graduated university. They couldn’t afford halls so I lived at home. They would not have tolerated me moving in with a boyfriend at 16 or 17 (or 18!).

but not would they ever cut me off. At 18 they didn’t see me as a fully formed independent adult - there was no Big Bang your on your own - more a gradual process.

every family is different - I am very glad I had my family though! They were far from perfect and I do have issues with how involved my parents are - but I always knew if I needed something they would move heaven and earth to give it to me.

I would just find a local dog sitter for the future OP and remove her from that equation.

I wondered why the OP didn't just use a pet sitting service /dog walking or boarding - then someone mentioned babysitting and wondered if there was some expecattion the DD would watch the younger child -10 - as well.

But I'm use OP learnt a lesson of not relying or expecting her DD to do things in future.

All I can suggest are boundraies - she doesn't have free reign in the house so locks changed and phone calls were she screams abuse - are terminated till she is civil.

It is hard because if the DD is doing well at college- the OP really does not want to dsrupt that. My parenst had a blazing row with sibling - they moved out sofa surfed then swatted then rented dives - but they ended up droppng out of collge and for next 10 years getting into serious finacial difficulties that parents felt they hadt o step in - push away too soon derailed my sibling getting fully independent - unlike many MN who seemed to manage fine.

That's why I suggest a budget and being clear what what is and isn't paid for and not having any other discussion on the subject - just repeat what been decieded every time - for another academic year and hopefully end of courses - saying there's always a room at OP house in mean time.

After she finishes college - then she should be in a better position to work full time and be fully independent rather than current half way house.

Cheeky? Really? I have three kids living at home, I don’t ask the oldest two to contribute financially, just do their fare share around the house, so I sure as hell wouldn’t be paying them to ‘babysit’ their younger sibling, especially when babysitting constitutes ordering a takeaway and making sure she’s home at a decent hour.

I think the bf parents are totally enabling this shitty and ridiculous situation

I agree they are part of OP problem.

she won't have child benefit if she's moved out

When did she get like this? Was her behaviour challenging when she was nine? Did she switch or was it a gradual thing? You said she said that you saying 'no' was abusive. What was she like when you said 'no' to her when she was younger?

I’m not convinced you need a hard time for this!

DD is independent spirited and is forging her own way as teens are designed to do. She is seeing you as a barrier to that but you are not really.

If you give DS £200 a month why not do the same for her, all in? This will allow you to budget and she will need to learn to budget too.

It sounds like the sparks come from her wanting money and asking regularly and this leads to multiple decisions/cliff hangers. These type of interactions need to be reduced.

Where she sleeps is not costing her money - lucky her. She has a double en-suite free of charge available also and all things she needs at home and is even allowed to pop in to collect stash of stuff and take it to BF house.

I would tell DD to come discuss her needs in that they relate to you and agree what is reasonable monthly/weekly and transfer that. The figure should be appropriate to what it would be if she were sleeping at home and to what DS had/has. There should be no discussions about money otherwise except in 🆘 situations. Keep the conversation grownup and calmly treat her like an adult, if she can not do the same then postpone the discussion until she can and make your own temporary allocation.

Beyond that she needs to earn her own money - which she is starting to do so all good 👍🏻

I think the bf parents are totally enabling this shitty and ridiculous situation

I disagree.
I think they’re stuck with her as they believe she’s not welcome at home.

I imagine it’s very expensive paying for an extra person and they may be struggling.

I do think OP should reach out to them as I think they could help mend the relationship but it is concerning OP has only met them once.

No 16/17 year old should be living with and be financially dependent on their bf and I think OP and the bfs parents should absolutely be in more contact and work out what to do.

I don't get why people are calling her a child at 19

because she is in full time education and if OP qualified she could claim child benefit for her.

If this has been going on for two years then her daughter was 16/17 when this started. You don’t let someone that age just move out without finding out what is going on with them.

OP, we've had a similar experience with our younger daughter. She dropped out of 6th form and got a job in a nightclub, and spent almost all of her time at her boyfriend's. She came home to grab a shower and a change of clothes. She refused to come out with us or visit grandparents. Money was her number one priority. We had lots of arguments and it was an awful time. We are just an ordinary family, no backstory or reasons for her behaviour. Eventually, I got to the point where I had to disengage for my own mental health. So we stopped responding to the text messages, stopped inviting her to come out with us, and stopped giving her extra money. We just let her get on with it. Things gradually improved. Now, she has a job in a pub which she loves. She's at home most of the time and we very occasionally go for a coffee. So please don't cut her off. Make a plan and stick to it. Don't engage. But please don't take her on holiday with you because you will all have a shit time. Been there, done that. Good luck.

My guess is that your new DH isn’t her dad and that’s why she’s been forced out of the family home and isn’t supported by you.

That's always the go-to explanation on here. Just maybe the daughter is disrespectful and playing at being an adult but wants to have her 60 quid jeans paid for when it suits.

Sounds like she harbours a lot of resentment towards you for something and it’s maybe not as clear cut as you are portraying. Regardless of how mean my kid was to me I could NEVER cut them off. I’d focus more on the internal issue than money as pp have said you’d be forking out the same money if she was at home with you . At her age cutting her off isn’t likely to bring her home to you which sounds like that’s what you want it’s more likely to have her drop out of college struggle and waste her life and will most likely ruin what little relationship is left. As my mum has done for me (despite being that horrible teen who had a bad relationship that’s now wonderful as an adult) I would support my children in any way possible physically emotionally and to my financial ability regardless of their age as you don’t stop being a mum as soon as they are 18.

I’m surprised so many people think ur being reasonable. Why would u cut off an 18 year old? She is still a teenager and at college. She likely doesn’t feel emotionally supported by you and you are comparing her with her brother, which is horrible. £50 for ‘holiday clothes’ - wouldn’t get much return for a few second hand items.I don’t think it was unreasonable to ask for the jeans on top of that if she needs them. She has a part time job and is at college, you must be saving money on bills from the fact she’s living with her BFs family rather than you? Is focussing on money an excuse to not deal with emotional issues you aren’t addressing? She must pick up on the coldness and comparison, especially as you’re ready to cut her off, while she is struggling at college. I wouldn’t like to be in her position and wonder why her boyfriend’s family who she is living with have such a different view of her and seem to be attempting to build bridges on her behalf. .