AIBU - BIL visiting

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Posting in AIBU for traffic and advice - I'm absolutely certain AINBU. NC'd for this as it could be outing. Apologies that there's some background to this.

DW has 3 siblings, BIL1, BIL2 and SIL. Very close family, I get on well with everyone but BIL1 and BIL2 live abroad (in different countries from each other). MIL has always preferenced BILs as the golden children and SIL and DW were never prioritised - I think MIL potentially just prefers men because she's very similar with me and SIL's husband too (treats us as her surrogate sons etc).

DW is pregnant. She's had a seriously bad pregnancy with HG and other complications, spent a lot of time in hospital, on a lot of medication etc. She's been told she'll probably need to be induced at 38/39 weeks. She's now well into her 3rd trimester, and still weighs over a stone less than when we conceived (and she wasn't exactly huge to start with), and she's also in a wheelchair now (which has been really tough because she was very athletic before). To add stress to the situation, our house sale has been delayed and delayed and we're now scheduled to complete just 2 weeks before the due date.

BIL1 and his girlfriend have struggled TTC and are going through IVF. As a result, DW and I were told that we're not allowed to mention the pregnancy at all because it'll upset them - as far as we know, this message hasn't come from BIL1 or the girlfriend, but has been enforced by SIL and MIL. This means my wife has been in and out of hospital, really struggling and in a horrible place with no support from her family because they won't even discuss the pregnancy. No one talks about names or her bump or how anything is progressing. DW and I have both found this really isolating and difficult. For around the last six months, MIL has been trying to book a holiday to go away (abroad) with us and SIL's family (husband and children) this summer. The holiday would need to be in school holiday time for the children to go and this isn't possible for us because our due date is the start of August. Every time MIL brought it up and we tried to shut the idea down, we were reminded that we're not allowed to talk about the pregnancy.

Now, BIL2 (who's single) has announced that he's coming back to the UK from mid-July to mid-August. When he first announced this, although DW is obviously excited and happy to see him, DW was apprehensive about this because she knows it means a) a lot of obligation to spend time at MIL's house (where BIL is staying) which is many hours from our hospital and b) that she won't get any support or affection or help from MIL whilst BIL is here because he's the golden child and he'll be taking up 100% of her attention. MIL had agreed to look after our DS when DW is in labour but she's now saying she probably can't. It's also being suggested/implied that BIL will be staying with us (in our new house that's a renovation job) when the baby is born so he can "bond" - which DW and I both think will just add stress. DW didn't express any of this disappointment/frustration to her family but I think it was clear from her response that she wasn't enthralled that this had all been planned with no discussion with her and that she's, yet again, not being considered by her family.

DW has now been confronted by MIL and SIL about two issues. Firstly that BIL is upset that she isn't sufficiently excited that he's coming all the way back to the UK in order to be here for the birth. Keeping in mind that, at no point, did DW ever express that she wanted him here for the birth and his return flight is for two weeks after the due date so (if they don't induce the baby) there's a chance the baby might not even be here by the time he leaves! Secondly, they're annoyed because they've now booked a family holiday abroad (that MIL has been pushing for for months) and we're expected to "pay our share". It's booked from 3 days after the due date so, even if the baby is induced at 38 weeks (which is the earliest that they've said they'll induce) then the baby will only be two weeks old! The journey, door-to-door, will take over 12 hours to get to the resort. I tried pointing out that we wouldn't have a passport for the baby but they just sent links for how to pay lots for an on-the-day appointment. I then said that we don't have the capacity for a holiday at that time and that it's not feasible for us and now MIL and SIL are furious because we're ruining everything and apparently BIL is really upset that we're not going to be spending any time with him and he was really looking forward to this holiday.

The difficulty is that DW relies on SIL and MIL for support and friendship and she's really struggling being so isolated from them in this pregnancy. I'm prepared to be the bad guy who puts his foot down and says we cannot go but, unfortunately, they aren't accepting that I'm capable of locking DW up against her will - and DW doesn't want to cause a rift. It's also being thrown back in our face that when DS was six days old we travelled for a family wedding on my side (but that was, to my mind, different because the wedding was planned before the pregnancy, it was only a four hour journey each way, it wasn't abroad and the B&G were fully prepared for us to play it by ear and see if DW could make it - there was no pressure). As far as I'm concerned, my ILs are being completely unreasonable but DW would like to just smooth it all over.

Thank you and well done to those who managed to read this far.

Get those people away from your family. They sound utterly, utterly toxic. Don't worry about hurting their feelings by saying no-they don't care about your feelings at all.

Gosh, they sound like a big toxic mess
your poor wife, and poor you

it doesn’t sound like it will ever get much better, if the family dynamic has always put your DW at the bottom of the pile

I would be inclined to start withdrawing from their nuts plans and definitely not rely on them for any sort of childcare

you’ll have to just stand firm on the holiday
“we told you from the start when the due date was, so it wasn’t going to be possible for us to come, you can’t take babies abroad before jabs, let alone the very well publicised issues with passports at the moment. Obviously it would have been nice to come but we hope you enjoy yourselves, and send us some pics.
Obviously we can’t contribute to it but you can’t have expected us to when you booked a holiday you knew we couldn’t come on”

Rinse, repeat

Agree with PP. They are toxic individuals. Not being able to mention the pregnany is disgusting. They are naive too ...a holiday abroad with a new born? You have to make an appointment to register the birth and that can take weeks. Never mind the passport. You have no idea whether your wife will have a straight forward labour. If she has a c section she wont be able to travel and will be a high risk of clots. You will need to tell your wife and her family its not happening. I would be stepping back from them

Wow! They sound absolutely horrible. Your DW would benefit from going NC with them. They’re absolutely awful. I would put your foot down!
You wouldn’t even have a passport for the baby. Going on holiday abroad was the last thing on my mind when I’d just given birth.

This is absolutely horrific. What's your wife's stance? Is she willing to cut contact?

There is going to be fall out and your wife is going to bear the brunt of it because she is a woman and MIL is a misogynist. I know this is going to be hard in the short term. I think long term your dw needs to source support from elsewhere - local friends, your family.

Don’t let these people bully your DW. Definitely put your foot down! No holiday, No BIL staying with you, Limited visits to MIL.

I can understand being tactful around family TTC, but they are not even in the same country??! Hideous behaviour either way.

Find someone else to look after DS & once the baby is here, support DW in finding mum friends so she isn’t so isolated.

Also this ‘golden child’ behaviour is likely to extend to the grandchildren. Unless you want to see your DC treated like this, (especially if you have a girl), then put down your boundaries now.

They are deranged!

Of course your wife shouldn’t be expected to travel immediately after a birth. The fact that she’s had a horrible pregnancy makes it all the more insane.

Step up and shield her from their toxic demands. No, you are not having a house guest with a newborn baby, no, you are not travelling abroad, and no, you are not “ruining” anything, you are prioritising the well-being of your DW and new baby.

Foul, absolutely foul. There's a massive chance DW will end up with a complicated birth, as inductions often do, and will need to be nurtured and relaxing at home with no stress

They don't give a shit about her and you need to help your wife to see that and have more respect for herself. She needs different support, new friends, a fresh perspective. This set up is utterly toxic and abusive.

I hope you will show her this thread.

You need to step in to protect your wife. The holiday is out of the question. The excitement of your new house and baby should be your priority, not the stress of getting a passport. All of this could send your DW into a PND spiral. I wouldn't have gone along with not mentioning the pregnancy. The whole family should be looking forward to the baby, this is a totally abnormal, toxic situation. You need to help your DW break free of them.

Thanks - glad to see I'm not completely insane.

The dynamic with MIL prioritising BILs over SIL and DW is definitely toxic but, in general, they aren't toxic people - which is why the situation is so tough. DW gets on really well with MIL and SIL and they're usually very close. There's no way that DW would cut contact and, truthfully, I do think the relationships with them are overall more positive than negative but this saga is definitely highlighting the very toxic element.

DW simply does not stand up for herself to them, which I understand is very difficult because it would definitely not be met with a rational or logical or reasonable response from them - it wouldn't go down well. She's also very cautious of what I say for the same reason, and because it's clear that if I'm saying no then I'm speaking for both of us so she wouldn't avoid backlash. DW would like to be able to smooth this over without any confrontation, especially considering how tough everything else is right now. I don't really know how best to support her because she wants to not have to deal with the stress of the BIL visit and holiday but also doesn't want to have any friction with her family (either way is going to cause her stress).

It's also very difficult for DW because she's a very, very determined person - she doesn't allow herself to be a burden or an obstacle so her family aren't used to her being obstructive. She's the one who makes sure things happen and go to plan. She doesn't like failing and she's feeling like she's failed here because she's saying she can't do something - and that's upsetting other people.

She's been trained by them to be compliant and doesn't want to see the abuse, fine. Then you need to give her the excuse that it is YOU putting your foot down. In the longer term she could do with some therapy I think

The "golden child" behaviour is definitely a concern DW has already raised. We're having a girl but all MILs other grandchildren (so far) have been boys. When we found out that we're having a girl, DW had a big cry on the way home about being worried that MIL won't treat her the same way as she treats DS, and it's something we're definitely going to be keeping a very close eye on.

There may well be a list of things that one would like post giving birth, which might include
Quiet times to connect with baby,
Adjustment with existing children re new addition,
House, other children, meals, all chores and admin miraculously taken care of for at least a month, ( highly unlikely but one can dream,)
An endless supply of snacks and drinks,
Lots of resting so body can recover from growing and birthing an entire human being.
At no point would anyone in their right mind write : pack up and go on holiday before I have stopped postpartum bleeding!
I think your wife needs to read up about toxic families so she can learn to protect herself and not feel so vulnerable around them. Maybe you should both read up so you can present a united front; same language, same values.

they Are awful.

you need to become those people who have hard boundaries that no one can mess with.

state, what will be happening once then say it’s not up for discussion or debate.

ring golden balls brother in law and say this is all out of control. Your sister is having a really difficult pregnancy, and doesn’t need all this drama. The timing of your trip is at a really bad time for us. If we can we will see you - but you will have to travel to us for what will probably only be short visit. We can’t have overnight guests and we certainly can’t go on holiday.

tell MIL they same. You and your wife are in control not them.

clealry state your boundaries, don’t change them, repeat them clearly.

By the way your mother in law sounds like a narcissist. She will never change or recognise she is in the wrong.

all you can control is your behaviour and reactions to her.

read up on narcissistic

Generally my approach is I deal with the crazy in my family and my partner deals with his and that mostly works.

In this case though, I would absolutely be prepared to put my foot down and be the arsehole.
Set out those boundaries in writing to all of them together.
Yes they'll bitch and moan but at least it's done. Tell them if they've got an issue to talk to you.
Reiterate your poor wife has been really really unwell and needs emotional and practical support.

I think you need to step up and look after your wife in this situation. If your MIL is a bit of a misogynist she will probably take you saying YOU have decided and that's it, better than you think. Just say it's not up for discussion. Say you don't care if your wife is happy with it, you are not and sorry you cannot host in Aug. As for the holiday - madness.

Crikey I have scarcely heard the likes! Your poor DW!! Don't even know where to start!!
No committing and paying for a holiday which is out of the question, no BIL to stay in your new house (would be gobsmacked if a single man would want this anyway, it's ludicrous, very much doubt he is specifically coming back to be there at the birth).
Think your DW needs counselling to reduce her (perfectly understandable) people-pleasing behaviour so protect herself going forward.

They sound fucking horrid, and like DW needs to be as far away from them as physically possible.

But you can't go abroad with a new baby - they won't have a passport!! Delays for new passports are massive at the moment, there's no way you'd get one in time even if baby is induced. Tell them to take it up with the Passport Office and leave you all the fuck alone. Wankers.

I'm irrationally annoyed on your behalf. Can you tell?!

Really you should reducing contact.

In what way are they close/supportive at all?

I cannot see why you would even consider a holiday with them.

1. no to holiday or subsidising it - you said no, you meant no
2. no to BIL staying - you need to bond with the baby not be hosting a grown-up baby
3. no to your DD being treated second-class because of sex - either MIL is decent or go LC
4. all this avoidable had there not been the pussy-footing, walking on eggshells re pregnancy for a SIL who has not requested it

Put your foot down - it will get worse before it gets better. They will not be supportive and she will need practical support. Are your own parents able to step up?

At the moment in most places there are long delays to register the birth which you need to do before you can get a passport. Even if you wanted to go you will not be able to get one in time. This may help you to get out of the holiday but you need to clearly explain that you will not be going, will not be paying and it has been booked at a time that does not suit you.

Also explain that you will not be having overnight guests with a new baby and probably make alternative plans for someone to look after your DS.

To get the babies passport you need a birth certificate which you won't get for a few weeks after birth anyway so you can use that as an excuse too

Agree.

Your wife is being bullied and you are too by extension.

Utterly toxic.

Only on MN do family tell you that they are staying in your home, uninvited.

I think you need to tell your wife that enough is enough.

Definitely no holiday.
Definitely no visitors.

She has to mind herself at this time.

They sound truly awful.