AIBU - BIL visiting

[Switchin]

Posting in AIBU for traffic and advice - I'm absolutely certain AINBU. NC'd for this as it could be outing. Apologies that there's some background to this.

DW has 3 siblings, BIL1, BIL2 and SIL. Very close family, I get on well with everyone but BIL1 and BIL2 live abroad (in different countries from each other). MIL has always preferenced BILs as the golden children and SIL and DW were never prioritised - I think MIL potentially just prefers men because she's very similar with me and SIL's husband too (treats us as her surrogate sons etc).

DW is pregnant. She's had a seriously bad pregnancy with HG and other complications, spent a lot of time in hospital, on a lot of medication etc. She's been told she'll probably need to be induced at 38/39 weeks. She's now well into her 3rd trimester, and still weighs over a stone less than when we conceived (and she wasn't exactly huge to start with), and she's also in a wheelchair now (which has been really tough because she was very athletic before). To add stress to the situation, our house sale has been delayed and delayed and we're now scheduled to complete just 2 weeks before the due date.

BIL1 and his girlfriend have struggled TTC and are going through IVF. As a result, DW and I were told that we're not allowed to mention the pregnancy at all because it'll upset them - as far as we know, this message hasn't come from BIL1 or the girlfriend, but has been enforced by SIL and MIL. This means my wife has been in and out of hospital, really struggling and in a horrible place with no support from her family because they won't even discuss the pregnancy. No one talks about names or her bump or how anything is progressing. DW and I have both found this really isolating and difficult. For around the last six months, MIL has been trying to book a holiday to go away (abroad) with us and SIL's family (husband and children) this summer. The holiday would need to be in school holiday time for the children to go and this isn't possible for us because our due date is the start of August. Every time MIL brought it up and we tried to shut the idea down, we were reminded that we're not allowed to talk about the pregnancy.

Now, BIL2 (who's single) has announced that he's coming back to the UK from mid-July to mid-August. When he first announced this, although DW is obviously excited and happy to see him, DW was apprehensive about this because she knows it means a) a lot of obligation to spend time at MIL's house (where BIL is staying) which is many hours from our hospital and b) that she won't get any support or affection or help from MIL whilst BIL is here because he's the golden child and he'll be taking up 100% of her attention. MIL had agreed to look after our DS when DW is in labour but she's now saying she probably can't. It's also being suggested/implied that BIL will be staying with us (in our new house that's a renovation job) when the baby is born so he can "bond" - which DW and I both think will just add stress. DW didn't express any of this disappointment/frustration to her family but I think it was clear from her response that she wasn't enthralled that this had all been planned with no discussion with her and that she's, yet again, not being considered by her family.

DW has now been confronted by MIL and SIL about two issues. Firstly that BIL is upset that she isn't sufficiently excited that he's coming all the way back to the UK in order to be here for the birth. Keeping in mind that, at no point, did DW ever express that she wanted him here for the birth and his return flight is for two weeks after the due date so (if they don't induce the baby) there's a chance the baby might not even be here by the time he leaves! Secondly, they're annoyed because they've now booked a family holiday abroad (that MIL has been pushing for for months) and we're expected to "pay our share". It's booked from 3 days after the due date so, even if the baby is induced at 38 weeks (which is the earliest that they've said they'll induce) then the baby will only be two weeks old! The journey, door-to-door, will take over 12 hours to get to the resort. I tried pointing out that we wouldn't have a passport for the baby but they just sent links for how to pay lots for an on-the-day appointment. I then said that we don't have the capacity for a holiday at that time and that it's not feasible for us and now MIL and SIL are furious because we're ruining everything and apparently BIL is really upset that we're not going to be spending any time with him and he was really looking forward to this holiday.

The difficulty is that DW relies on SIL and MIL for support and friendship and she's really struggling being so isolated from them in this pregnancy. I'm prepared to be the bad guy who puts his foot down and says we cannot go but, unfortunately, they aren't accepting that I'm capable of locking DW up against her will - and DW doesn't want to cause a rift. It's also being thrown back in our face that when DS was six days old we travelled for a family wedding on my side (but that was, to my mind, different because the wedding was planned before the pregnancy, it was only a four hour journey each way, it wasn't abroad and the B&G were fully prepared for us to play it by ear and see if DW could make it - there was no pressure). As far as I'm concerned, my ILs are being completely unreasonable but DW would like to just smooth it all over.

Thank you and well done to those who managed to read this far.

@SlatsandFlaps
I think MIL potentially just prefers men because she's very similar with me and SIL's husband too (treats us as her surrogate sons etc).

Wow. I feel stressed just reading this. Can't imagine how you guys must feel.

Absolutely no to going on holiday, or having a house guest straightaway after. Just keep repeating 'no' to them.

It's also very difficult for DW because she's a very, very determined person - she doesn't allow herself to be a burden or an obstacle so her family aren't used to her being obstructive. She's the one who makes sure things happen and go to plan. She doesn't like failing and she's feeling like she's failed here because she's saying she can't do something - and that's upsetting other people.

Really? She thinks she's failed because she can't do something that was completely and utterly unreasonable for them to expect in the first place? I'm mean there's people pleasing and there's this, perhaps she should look into counselling to help her deal with this fucked up family dynamic

Slats
I'm guessing you're a same sex couple. Could there be a touch of homophobia going on here? Certainly sounds like it.

That's not my understanding at all - from the 1st post
I think MIL potentially just prefers men because she's very similar with me and SIL's husband too (treats us as her surrogate sons etc)

Also the op refers to himself as happy to be the 'bad guy'.

The DW'sr family is certainly toxic but I think homophobia isn't a factor

I think you need to show your wife this thread.

You say they are normally a support to her and they get on well but just some things are toxic. But this isn't just a bad habit or a little irritating thing they've done - they are withdrawing their support when she is literally the most vulnerable she has been in her entire life. They are toxic full stop, it doesn't get much worse than this, and practically no one is toxic 100% of the time or they wouldn't be able to function in society. Telling someone expressly they can't mention a difficult time they are going through, letting someone down with childcare for a hospital stay because something better has come along, and trying to force someone to travel and other things with a very young baby - these are all things that I and most people wouldn't do to a neighbour or acquaintance let alone someone who you supposedly love.

I can't emphasise enough how fucked up and damaging this is and they have obviously done this so much and she is so beaten down that she thinks this is normal and wants to try her best to stop them acting like this, rather than do what most people would do and tell them to fuck off. They are not nice to her, they don't act like they love her, and she really needs to put some distance between her and them, not just now but for ever, she shouldn't be relying on them for friendship, they will massively hurt her again and again whenever her brothers are involved. Can you imagine going out with friends if you were only invited as a back up? Can you imagine being in a relationship where you knew the person loved someone else more but were just with you as a back up because their true love was unavailable? Most people wouldnt because they would have too much self respect but unfortunately they have eroded this in your wife. She only gets on well with them because they can make an effort because her brothers are out the country and she is the back up child. This will never ultimately make her happy as her parents love will never be unconditional as it is conditional on her brothers needs being fulfilled first.

She needs to get some therapy and start separating herself from them and putting her needs first as they are never going to. Start by putting a message on the group chat saying she is really struggling with this pregnancy and has been very unwell and in hospital so won't be travelling straight after the baby and wont be having visitors around the birth though she would still like to see anyone. And then try and ignore the fall out. Concentrate on building other relationships that are based on mutual respect

They all sound like a box of frogs.

Horribly difficult for you both. Your poor DW, and poor you, too, who as a spouse are also bearing the secondary fallout of their abusive behaviour. And this is abuse, make no mistake about this.

It isn't your wife's fault. She's been trained all her life into a submissive role, willing to capitulate to almost anything her dreadful family wants so she doesn't have to suffer the repercussions. This isn't being strong and making things happen. It's enabling behaviour, because they've made the consequences of doing otherwise so awful. FOG, is what they call it (fear, obligation and guilt) and it's very difficult to break through this and see the picture clearly.

MiL's behaviour surrounding the holiday is off-the-charts whackadoo. She is a manipulative, misogynistic, browbeating horror. I can't recommend highly enough that you get hold of and read Susan Forward's Toxic In-Laws. It takes time, consistent study and gradual implementation of the various strategies she suggests, but I can tell you from experience that this book is a game-changer.

I think you'll recognise your in-laws as weirdly paradoxical: a strange combination of engulfers and rejecters. Worst of all, they are already rejecting your daughter and she isn't even born yet. She could do better than have a harmful dynamic like this removed from her life. I hope you can gently guide your wife away from the idea that this is in any way normal, and if she wishes to maintain contact, to set some healthy boundaries so that this doesn't continue to harm her or your child.

It will take time. It took me close-on 15 years. Good luck

Oh @Switchin I couldn’t even read all the way through your opening post. Apologies if I am repeating previous posts or missed key updates.

You & your DW do not need the hassle this mob bring to your door.
They are your DW’s family but not her friends.
For you, your DW & coming baby are your priority, keep strong & stedfast as you are.

Understandably your DW is physically & emotionally going through the wringer, she cannot jumped ship & has to see this process through 😉. She may feel anxious & alone - although not so - so her family are her rock as a grab-hold in these choppy waters. But they are a slippery lot of jagged edges cutting her, but she keeps that hold as the waters around her moving fast. But she can change the terms of this attachment by having a safer hold & support with other people.

More pertinent, your DW is under expert medical care as both her & baby’s health are at risk for a while & close clinical management is the name of the game.

So I suggest that you very kindly & firmly encourage your DW to contact her midwife team now, have a chat about the pressure she is under & getting some support. I suggest that you make the call together. That said, It is OK for you to contact the midwife team to express your concern about how much your DW is under pressure to run round after other people’s neurotic dramas - unusual for DH to make the first move but not unheard of - your concern is about DW & baby’s health & safety.

I laid this approach out as your DW might find a gentle word from her midwife about the real priorities for her & baby will help take the hot air/deflate the family dramas.

All the better to tell the nuisances to that both you & DW are following strict medical orders. Non negotiable.

Back to the thread…

Your DW gets on well with your MIL and SIL because she's compliant. How do they respond when she isn't? Do they get on well then? Is it a relationship of equals?

Agree with PP that you need to step in, be the bad guy and put your foot down. I wish my DH had done that with me tbh, though I understand why he felt he couldn't. I eventually got there on my own and have been NC with most of my family for 11 years now.

At the end of the day, if they haven't stepped up for her now with a difficult pregnancy etc, they are never going to.

I agree that you need to put your foot down and tell misogynist MIL that your wife is under enough stress as it is with a difficult pregnancy and enough is enough.

Tell her you won't be going on the holiday or paying for it as it was done without your agreement, and is a crazy idea anyway, as your wife will not be fit to go and taking a newborn all that way is a non-starter.

And tell BIL he won't be staying with you! (Unless of course he's the sort of guy who will pitch in with shopping, cleaning, cooking and entertaining DS, in which case it might be quite helpful to have an extra pair of hands.)

Try looking at this another way . DW has been raised by MIL; MIL sets the rules to get exactly what MIL wants so DW is long, long trained to being over-ruled and getting into line with the hardline demands of a highly assertive person.

Use it. Steal MIL's thunder. Do it her way, apparently it works .

It's time for you to tell DW that priorities have changed. MIL is no longer cock of the walk; YOU have taken over her role as BOSS OF YOUR FAMILY and from now on, there is ONLY ONE PRIORITY , DW's pregnancy. MIL/BIL/SIL's wishes, needs and demands are out of the picture for months to come. DW must accept your decision. END OF.

Then you tell the entire family DW has had a very stressful difficult pregnancy and it's high time everybody recognised that.

There's been a change of plan, and its not negotiable.

BIL is not coming to stay at your new home. You and DW are not going on the planned holiday nor are you paying for it. You are making local arrangements for care of DS when the baby comes. There will be NO hassling of DW as a result of this message.

That's how to support your wife and your baby.

I think they need to understand just how poorly your wife has been - therefore her health is your priority and so no holiday before or after, no guests and of course your wife wants to see her family that’s coming over - but in small doses and on your/her terms - not theirs. Otherwise tough. Your wife needs to be honest and explain how poorly as they clearly have not realised. And not talking about it? They need to get over themselves - sucking the joy out of your DD’s arrival is awful!

'in general, they aren't toxic people'
But they are though. Misogyny is at the heart of every single family relationship to the point your wife cried with worry about how a female GC would be treated, there are golden children, there is no respect for very sensible boundaries like not going abroad just after a birth when it is likely physically impossible to even get a passport.
It's totally understandable that your wife is caught in the net still as she grew up in it, but it sounds to an outsider like you're more entangled in the madness than you realise.
Boundaries my friend. Big strong ones need putting in place ASAP to protect you, your wife and your children.

Sounds like my family, I moved hundreds of miles away so I didn't have to worry about all this crap continually. And I do whatever the hell I want regardless of the disapproval which is what your DW should do.

'Bad guy' is a figure of speech. Anyone of any sex can be a 'bad guy' in the right context. I got the impression as OP says her MIL favours males. If OP was male then that would include him, surely?

If OP was male then that would include him, surely?

It does-I think MIL potentially just prefers men because she's very similar with me and SIL's husband too (treats us as her surrogate sons etc).

Honestly I'd do whats best for you and your wife and fuck the lot of them they don't sound like they'd be a great loss anyway

Hilarious.

You are being unreasonable by putting up with this shit and entertaining any of MIL's 'rules' or crap.

Learn the word No.
Learn to hang up/close the door/leave yourself/ refuse to engage once you've made your own decision about what's best for you and your family.
Keep your children away from these toxic arseholes as much as possible.

You are grown ups. Other people don't get to tell you how to live your lives.

They sound awful but you can take back your own power here. Say no to BIL staying with you, no to a false obligation to spend time at MIL's home when he is visiting there, no to the holiday, no to paying any of it, no to anything that doesn't work for you. When you aren't allowed to mention the pregnancy remind them that you are sad that BIL and his GF are having difficulty conceiving but you have your own suffering at the moment that is not negated by their own struggle. Your poor wife.

Poor you, and your poor DW. I haven’t read the full thread, but from what I’ve seen, I agree with PP. stand up for your DW and be the bad guy, then try to help her smooth it over when there’s a fall out, whilst standing firm.

I came on here to say that HG is the most brutal thing, both for the person going through it and their partner supporting them. I’ve had it twice and wouldn’t wish it on anyone. Post partum recovery is often more tough because of how malnourished/ weak her body will be and I agree with the comments re PND. Last thing she needs is all this, she needs rest and support and if they can’t facilitate that then they should stay away! If you haven’t already, please contact the charity Pregnancy Sickness Support, they are amazing and will help support you both. Wishing you all the best at this extremely tough time.

Assuming you are in the UK you firstly will need to wait for a birth certificate before you can get a passport. You can’t get this till you’ve registered the birth and you’ll need an appointment for that too. You can shut down the holiday convo simply by stating facts = it’s not possible for you to go!
Is BIL2 in any way aware of the issues your dw has had over the pregnancy? - this could be the moment for a polite email saying she’s in a wheelchair, finding things very hard and if he’d like to come help with the childcare, cooking and cleaning he’s very welcome but he might be more comfortable elsewhere/at his mother’s?
Finally, why is your dw dependent on mil and sil for her social life? Does she not have any friends at all? NCT groups or baby classes or playgroups are a great place to meet other Mums…you really need to enable her to be more independent of her family (they do sound horrid!).

THIS.

And both of you should read this as a matter of urgency:

www.amazon.com/Toxic-Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Reclaiming/dp/0553381407

And always remember that, at the end of the day, it is up to you whether you allow others to treat you like crap. And this includes family. Especially family...

Wrong part

but I’m almost certain that children can’t get one day passports. So the baby (as you stated) won’t have a passport in time. So you could use that idea.

No, No, No.

keep repeating it.

Yeah this. I hope your wife gets to the stage where she can face going no contact, because these people are awful.