AIBU - BIL visiting

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Posting in AIBU for traffic and advice - I'm absolutely certain AINBU. NC'd for this as it could be outing. Apologies that there's some background to this.

DW has 3 siblings, BIL1, BIL2 and SIL. Very close family, I get on well with everyone but BIL1 and BIL2 live abroad (in different countries from each other). MIL has always preferenced BILs as the golden children and SIL and DW were never prioritised - I think MIL potentially just prefers men because she's very similar with me and SIL's husband too (treats us as her surrogate sons etc).

DW is pregnant. She's had a seriously bad pregnancy with HG and other complications, spent a lot of time in hospital, on a lot of medication etc. She's been told she'll probably need to be induced at 38/39 weeks. She's now well into her 3rd trimester, and still weighs over a stone less than when we conceived (and she wasn't exactly huge to start with), and she's also in a wheelchair now (which has been really tough because she was very athletic before). To add stress to the situation, our house sale has been delayed and delayed and we're now scheduled to complete just 2 weeks before the due date.

BIL1 and his girlfriend have struggled TTC and are going through IVF. As a result, DW and I were told that we're not allowed to mention the pregnancy at all because it'll upset them - as far as we know, this message hasn't come from BIL1 or the girlfriend, but has been enforced by SIL and MIL. This means my wife has been in and out of hospital, really struggling and in a horrible place with no support from her family because they won't even discuss the pregnancy. No one talks about names or her bump or how anything is progressing. DW and I have both found this really isolating and difficult. For around the last six months, MIL has been trying to book a holiday to go away (abroad) with us and SIL's family (husband and children) this summer. The holiday would need to be in school holiday time for the children to go and this isn't possible for us because our due date is the start of August. Every time MIL brought it up and we tried to shut the idea down, we were reminded that we're not allowed to talk about the pregnancy.

Now, BIL2 (who's single) has announced that he's coming back to the UK from mid-July to mid-August. When he first announced this, although DW is obviously excited and happy to see him, DW was apprehensive about this because she knows it means a) a lot of obligation to spend time at MIL's house (where BIL is staying) which is many hours from our hospital and b) that she won't get any support or affection or help from MIL whilst BIL is here because he's the golden child and he'll be taking up 100% of her attention. MIL had agreed to look after our DS when DW is in labour but she's now saying she probably can't. It's also being suggested/implied that BIL will be staying with us (in our new house that's a renovation job) when the baby is born so he can "bond" - which DW and I both think will just add stress. DW didn't express any of this disappointment/frustration to her family but I think it was clear from her response that she wasn't enthralled that this had all been planned with no discussion with her and that she's, yet again, not being considered by her family.

DW has now been confronted by MIL and SIL about two issues. Firstly that BIL is upset that she isn't sufficiently excited that he's coming all the way back to the UK in order to be here for the birth. Keeping in mind that, at no point, did DW ever express that she wanted him here for the birth and his return flight is for two weeks after the due date so (if they don't induce the baby) there's a chance the baby might not even be here by the time he leaves! Secondly, they're annoyed because they've now booked a family holiday abroad (that MIL has been pushing for for months) and we're expected to "pay our share". It's booked from 3 days after the due date so, even if the baby is induced at 38 weeks (which is the earliest that they've said they'll induce) then the baby will only be two weeks old! The journey, door-to-door, will take over 12 hours to get to the resort. I tried pointing out that we wouldn't have a passport for the baby but they just sent links for how to pay lots for an on-the-day appointment. I then said that we don't have the capacity for a holiday at that time and that it's not feasible for us and now MIL and SIL are furious because we're ruining everything and apparently BIL is really upset that we're not going to be spending any time with him and he was really looking forward to this holiday.

The difficulty is that DW relies on SIL and MIL for support and friendship and she's really struggling being so isolated from them in this pregnancy. I'm prepared to be the bad guy who puts his foot down and says we cannot go but, unfortunately, they aren't accepting that I'm capable of locking DW up against her will - and DW doesn't want to cause a rift. It's also being thrown back in our face that when DS was six days old we travelled for a family wedding on my side (but that was, to my mind, different because the wedding was planned before the pregnancy, it was only a four hour journey each way, it wasn't abroad and the B&G were fully prepared for us to play it by ear and see if DW could make it - there was no pressure). As far as I'm concerned, my ILs are being completely unreasonable but DW would like to just smooth it all over.

Thank you and well done to those who managed to read this far.

As above…toxic to the core! No holidays, no visitors. Your poor dw

just a thought. What if the beautiful baby is a girl! She does not deserve this misogynistic crap.

she really needs nothing to do with them. If it’s your first child, going on holiday with a newborn would be terrible for baby and mum. She’ll just want you and to feel loved x

All a bit bonkers.
I used to work as cabin crew and the rules for babies flying is that they must be 2 weeks old. If a baby is born before 40 weeks, the baby must be 2 weeks old and the weeks that they are before the 40 week date. So if your wife delivers at 38 weeks the baby would need to be 4 weeks old before being allowed to fly.
This is from a few years ago and it may have changed.

The difficulty is that DW relies on SIL and MIL for support and friendship and she's really struggling being so isolated from them in this pregnancy.

Once your baby is here, this toxic dynamic will not change: on the contrary, it will escalate.

DW is so entrenched in her role as peacekeeper, facilitator & enabler of her mother's appalling favouritism & obnoxious, insane diktats, that she is going to find this very hard to see.

She will not get the support she wants from her family.
It will be at best highly conditional, & more likely abusively coercive.
She is not allowed to talk about her pregnancy FFS!
How on earth does her mother imagine she is going to control manage relations between DW & her sister, when the mere existence of your baby is such an obvious taboo?
Does she believe that SiL cannot handle mention of your unborn child, but will miraculaously be able to socialise just fine with DW on this holiday?

Has DW talked this over with SiL?
Because it sounds to me as if MiL has acted as both tyrant AND Flying Monkey here. I'm not convinced that SiL has expressed any desire for a state of 'omerta' over DW's pregnancy. It sounds more like a divide-&-rule policy to me, & I suspect MiL has either invented it wholesale or manipulated SiL into going along with it.

What a mess.
You sound very level headed about a situation that would drive anyone batshit.
But you cannot play along with this controlling behaviour any longer.
One of you is going to have to name The Elephant In The Room.
If it's to be you, you may as well go large: how is all this being discussed? If it's on a family whatsapp or similar, you could decide to do it all in one fell swoop there. Something like -
I'm having to speak up for DW as the situation is becoming too stressful & I feel unfair demands are being placed on her. So it's time - with absolute warmth & respect to you SiL - to mention the elephant in the room.
DW has been forbidden by MiL from mentioning her pregnancy. I can understand the need to minimise upset due to SiL's difficult situation right now, but what this has meant for DW is that she is now managing a difficult pregnancy which has made her very unwell. So none of you are aware of how much she is having to cope with, how tricky the birth will be, or what she is going to be dealing with post-partum.
As I hope you can imagine, this has been hard for her emotionally. So being told that she is letting the side down by being unable to confirm when her due date is, & being railroaded into a holiday she will be physically unable to attend is causing her immense stress on top of some already very unpleasant pregnancy complications.
I've therefore had to put the request to never mention her pregnancy to one side in order to help you understand why this holiday is impossible for her. I'm asking you to understand that her health is paramount, & to stop needling her about any plans in July/August, because she is simply unable to commit to anything beyond managing her own health until she is safely delivered, then dealing with the post-partum aftermath of what looks likely to be a difficult birth.

If that would cause WW3 - you need to discuss with DW how hopelessly batshit it is to be in a situation where it is 'illegal' to talk honestly & openly to close family members, & hope she starts to see that it is NOT HER JOB to enable her mother & BiL2. Or even her sister, if her sister IS playing along with this "don't mention the pregnancy" bullshit.

So you might think that a gentler alternative is for DW to raise it with SiL directly.
For her to say pretty much all the above, but in a "sounding you out" manner. She's then at least get to the bottom of how much of this Omerta Ban is MiL's shitstirring, & be able to achieve some genuine communication & closeness with her sister again.

Either way - you can't sit on your hands hoping they'll see the light, they are all too used to dancing to MiL's tune.

sorry I haven’t read all comments but just wanted to add you really need to prioritise your wife and children - everyone else can sod off. I had serious in law issues (and I am a former people pleaser) after birth and it was one of the reasons for my PND. You need to be the one that draws a boundary around your family unit and says no guests and no holidays!

Just posting to agree that your in laws sound absolutely awful and I would be having nothing to do with them.

This is awful! I, so angry for you and DW- none of her family sounds nice, caring or remotely supportive. You said DW wants/needs her mum for support post-birth. My parents and wonderful (I'm fortunate) but I did not need either of them. I needed my husband who only got 2 weeks off work then we just managed everything.

I do think you and your DW don't realise how toxic her family are. She will have grown up in it and you perhaps have just become a customer

Do not pay your so called share of the holiday. It's ridiculous! No-one in their right mind takes a baby who will potentially be days old on a flight. Use the passport as an excuse if you must but the priority at that time will be postnatal care of the baby and your wife. Babies lose weight so establishing feeding is imperative (whatever way baby if fed). If the baby or your wife has any complications they may be re-hospitalised.

No. The OP says that he and his SiL's DH are also favoured by his MiL

MIL potentially just prefers men because she's very similar with me and SIL's husband too (treats us as her surrogate sons etc).

For those who missed it...

The new baby is a girl...

Agree with everyone else except maybe BIL visiting.

You say that DW is looking forward to seeing him and that he will very much be monopolised by MIL so having him stay with you might give DW small amounts of quality time with him before he heads off to Mils, potentially making him a powerful ally.

I'm having to speak up for DW as the situation is becoming too stressful & I feel unfair demands are being placed on her. So it's time - with absolute warmth & respect to you SiL - to mention the elephant in the room.
DW has been forbidden by MiL from mentioning her pregnancy. I can understand the need to minimise upset due to SiL's difficult situation right now, but what this has meant for DW is that she is now managing a difficult pregnancy which has made her very unwell. So none of you are aware of how much she is having to cope with, how tricky the birth will be, or what she is going to be dealing with post-partum.
As I hope you can imagine, this has been hard for her emotionally. So being told that she is letting the side down by being unable to confirm when her due date is, & being railroaded into a holiday she will be physically unable to attend is causing her immense stress on top of some already very unpleasant pregnancy complications.
I've therefore had to put the request to never mention her pregnancy to one side in order to help you understand why this holiday is impossible for her. I'm asking you to understand that her health is paramount, & to stop needling her about any plans in July/August, because she is simply unable to commit to anything beyond managing her own health until she is safely delivered, then dealing with the post-partum aftermath of what looks likely to be a difficult birth.

Excellent suggestion. And then be prepared to go NC when MiL and SiL erupt

I know what it's like to be ill in pregnancy and your wife's health and that of the baby is paramount.

This has to stop!

They sound like terrible people but it sounds like your wife has good support from you. I wouldn't let them anywhere near the baby when it's born after all this.

One piece of advice I can give you is get your wife signed up to a few baby groups for when the baby is born. Might take a few till she finds the right fit but it will help her to build a new support system of other mothers

I feel so sorry for your wife.

She feels close to her mother and sister, and yet they are totally unprepared to prioritise her in any way over her brothers.

They're not close, as has been said - they're just used to her being a doormat to keep the peace. This has to stop, for her own wellbeing - which will blow the smoke away and show what they really think about her.

I agree with the poster who said that you should use the fact that you can be the bad guy here - but if you or your DW really don't want to go that route, then I suggest you see the GP, or the MW, or health visitor and get a medical note that says "No, she cannot do this for her own health and safety".

The whole set up is ludicrous - they're just taking the piss massively. And they can fuck right off with the whole "you need to pay your share of the holiday" - just no! You didn't want to go, you didn't arrange it, and you're not paying for it!

HG is a fucking nightmare, it's not surprising that your DW doesn't have the energy to fight - so you do need to just say "We are not doing this and I am prepared to fight for you and for our baby and family".

Best of luck - hope this is put a stop to, pronto!

My advice, given the complex nature of the situation is that you have to use a group e-mail to the whole family. You explain that they are all loved and that your wife is extremely stressed and upset that she is apparently disappointing them by not being able to do exactly as they hoped with holidays and having BiL to stay. However, as they know, she has had an extremely traumatic, frightening, dangerous and difficult pregnancy that has resulted in her spending a considerable amount of time in hospital, using a vast amount of weight and becoming wheelchair bound. She is lucky to live in the 21st century with access to the NHS because her condition was often fatal in the past.

She is, presumably, under consultant-led care for this pregnancy, so you use her consultant's authority to say that the nature of her pregnancy and her general health mean that she must stay within easy reach of the hospital until the baby is safely delivered and that she should assume that she will need a considerable period of time to recover her health and fitness after the birth. As such, all foreign travel is off the cards for the duration of the summer.

Given your uncertain housing situation and the precarious nature of your wife's health, you will not be able to have guests to stay with you. However, your wife is very much hoping to see her brother during his visit to the UK and you hope he will be able to pop over and see you both during the day. You will, of course, have to play it by ear because she could require an emergency Caesarian with little notice, but you are sure they understand that the health of mother and baby has to be the top consideration.

I eco what others are saying .
You must now step up and be the bad guy.
No we won't be going on holiday, no BIL won't be able to stay ( unless he's willing to help ).
You will be putting your family first .
I like the idea of a group what's app addressing the Elephant in the room . Your sympathetic to not upsetting sil who's childless but surely the family can be just as sympathetic and supportive of your DW.

This in spades.

You sound smart and totally aware of the unhealthy hold they have over DW. Please don’t fall into the trap of allowing them any flexibility because they family. They clearly don’t respect your DW’s health and happiness.

She has been conditioned for many years to respond as she does with them. She may find it helpful to read more about FOG: outofthefog.website/toolbox-1/2015/11/17/fog-fear-obligation-guilt

YOU need to stand up to them. They are already being vile to her, so she has nothing to lose. They are definitely not offering anything positive at a time when she needs them most.

If they kick off, block them for a while - you and your DW need to keep this stress out of your lives and make this the happy time it should be. Protect yourselves and your baby from these nasty people. Enjoy your new family. Wishing you luck.

Your smaller family unit is expecting a child and your wife is unwell in pregnancy. There is no other priority and that extends until both are in robust good health after the birth. No other reasonable person would think otherwise. Just say no to the holiday. Let them sulk like toddlers.

Your poor wife has been so ill!!

You both need to focus on her and the baby.

If it were me I would write a letter detailing the pregnancy complications and hospitalisations. And that it has been impossible to communicate because of this utterly unreasonable embargo on discussing the pregnancy!! Utterly unreasonable. It is one thing for you to avoid contact with the BIL and girlfriend for the duration and/or limit all the gushy chat around them……… but there is no reason whatsoever that her awful awful Mother can’t stand up and be supportive alongside SiL. Absolutely dreadful. Again - your poor wife I’m so sorry they’ve been so ghastly.

No holiday. No BIL to stay. If you are well enough collectively to see him he elsewhere. Bond indeed! What on Earth does he need to “bond” with your baby for?! He is a random uncle who will barely see the child because he lives in another country 🤷‍♀️

PS the 'as you know' is to highlight the fact that you can't talk about the pregnancy, which has prevented you talking about your wife's health. They all need to know. You are the only person willing and able to defy the MiL. It might set the cat among the pigeons for a day or so, but her brothers need to know what she has been going through. They need to understand that she has been gravely ill, is exhausted and needs them to be understanding and accommodating.

Has bil stayed with any other family member who just had a baby?
I'm going to guess no and then I'm left wondering why a man who appears to not really care much for babies now wants to spend possibly weeks with a newborn girl?

This. It’s time to say “No, it’s not happening. My wife is my priority. It’s too much of a risk, for both mother and baby”
You decide who stays at your house, not MIL OR SIL! Don’t worry about upsetting them, thei don’t seem to worry about upsetting you or your wife.

Blimey.
There will need to be confrontation at some point otherwise this won't be sorted.

One of my daughters has had three failed IVF procedures, she’s now accepted that it’s not going to happen, she can’t put herself through it again. it is distressing and heartbreaking for them. I’m her mother and I know that when a pregnancy among family and friends is announced, she puts on a brave face and congratulates them and no way would she ask anyone to keep a pregnancy secret. She’d be appalled if they did.

Are they usually ok because your DW always yes to them

theyre very narcissitic and toxic she just cant see it

who asks a pregnant ill woman to shutup about her pregnancy and not even help her then demand she goes on holiday with a newborn

Have you missed the part that DW is obviously unwell and really struggling with the dynamics in this family? Yet you think she should be left to handle this situation??? Any decent husband would not allow his dw to be treated like the OP’s dw is being treated! Any decent husband would not leave his dw to deal with this situation. The OP is a decent husband!