AIBU - BIL visiting

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Posting in AIBU for traffic and advice - I'm absolutely certain AINBU. NC'd for this as it could be outing. Apologies that there's some background to this.

DW has 3 siblings, BIL1, BIL2 and SIL. Very close family, I get on well with everyone but BIL1 and BIL2 live abroad (in different countries from each other). MIL has always preferenced BILs as the golden children and SIL and DW were never prioritised - I think MIL potentially just prefers men because she's very similar with me and SIL's husband too (treats us as her surrogate sons etc).

DW is pregnant. She's had a seriously bad pregnancy with HG and other complications, spent a lot of time in hospital, on a lot of medication etc. She's been told she'll probably need to be induced at 38/39 weeks. She's now well into her 3rd trimester, and still weighs over a stone less than when we conceived (and she wasn't exactly huge to start with), and she's also in a wheelchair now (which has been really tough because she was very athletic before). To add stress to the situation, our house sale has been delayed and delayed and we're now scheduled to complete just 2 weeks before the due date.

BIL1 and his girlfriend have struggled TTC and are going through IVF. As a result, DW and I were told that we're not allowed to mention the pregnancy at all because it'll upset them - as far as we know, this message hasn't come from BIL1 or the girlfriend, but has been enforced by SIL and MIL. This means my wife has been in and out of hospital, really struggling and in a horrible place with no support from her family because they won't even discuss the pregnancy. No one talks about names or her bump or how anything is progressing. DW and I have both found this really isolating and difficult. For around the last six months, MIL has been trying to book a holiday to go away (abroad) with us and SIL's family (husband and children) this summer. The holiday would need to be in school holiday time for the children to go and this isn't possible for us because our due date is the start of August. Every time MIL brought it up and we tried to shut the idea down, we were reminded that we're not allowed to talk about the pregnancy.

Now, BIL2 (who's single) has announced that he's coming back to the UK from mid-July to mid-August. When he first announced this, although DW is obviously excited and happy to see him, DW was apprehensive about this because she knows it means a) a lot of obligation to spend time at MIL's house (where BIL is staying) which is many hours from our hospital and b) that she won't get any support or affection or help from MIL whilst BIL is here because he's the golden child and he'll be taking up 100% of her attention. MIL had agreed to look after our DS when DW is in labour but she's now saying she probably can't. It's also being suggested/implied that BIL will be staying with us (in our new house that's a renovation job) when the baby is born so he can "bond" - which DW and I both think will just add stress. DW didn't express any of this disappointment/frustration to her family but I think it was clear from her response that she wasn't enthralled that this had all been planned with no discussion with her and that she's, yet again, not being considered by her family.

DW has now been confronted by MIL and SIL about two issues. Firstly that BIL is upset that she isn't sufficiently excited that he's coming all the way back to the UK in order to be here for the birth. Keeping in mind that, at no point, did DW ever express that she wanted him here for the birth and his return flight is for two weeks after the due date so (if they don't induce the baby) there's a chance the baby might not even be here by the time he leaves! Secondly, they're annoyed because they've now booked a family holiday abroad (that MIL has been pushing for for months) and we're expected to "pay our share". It's booked from 3 days after the due date so, even if the baby is induced at 38 weeks (which is the earliest that they've said they'll induce) then the baby will only be two weeks old! The journey, door-to-door, will take over 12 hours to get to the resort. I tried pointing out that we wouldn't have a passport for the baby but they just sent links for how to pay lots for an on-the-day appointment. I then said that we don't have the capacity for a holiday at that time and that it's not feasible for us and now MIL and SIL are furious because we're ruining everything and apparently BIL is really upset that we're not going to be spending any time with him and he was really looking forward to this holiday.

The difficulty is that DW relies on SIL and MIL for support and friendship and she's really struggling being so isolated from them in this pregnancy. I'm prepared to be the bad guy who puts his foot down and says we cannot go but, unfortunately, they aren't accepting that I'm capable of locking DW up against her will - and DW doesn't want to cause a rift. It's also being thrown back in our face that when DS was six days old we travelled for a family wedding on my side (but that was, to my mind, different because the wedding was planned before the pregnancy, it was only a four hour journey each way, it wasn't abroad and the B&G were fully prepared for us to play it by ear and see if DW could make it - there was no pressure). As far as I'm concerned, my ILs are being completely unreasonable but DW would like to just smooth it all over.

Thank you and well done to those who managed to read this far.

Fucking hell, who is making up these batshit rules? She can’t even speak of her pregnancy lest bil get upset but in the next breath she’s expected to sort a passport in a day when she’s postpartum in order to partake in a family holiday. Fuck that.

Your poor wife won’t want to hear this but I’m inclined to believe that not speaking of the pregnancy is a ruse designed to ensure that she doesn’t ask them for anything during her time of need. I can’t imagine not supporting my daughter, even quietly so as not to upset ds if he and his dp were struggling to conceive, through any pregnancy let alone a difficult high risk one such as this. And no one with an ounce of common sense or compassion would expect you to drag a newborn baby abroad on holiday just to suit them. They are horrible people and they don’t care about her or value her. The sooner she realises this the happier you will all be but unfortunately this has to come from her.

I don’t have any suggestions on how to make her see sense but perhaps just ask her why she thinks that all of the expectations and sacrifices are one way. Even at her lowest ebb she’s not allowed to ask for anything. This isn’t normal, it’s a big red flag for a dysfunctional family. She needs to walk away or set very strong boundaries to protect herself and her family.

This is nuts- when your DW, MIL and SIL are together, they have to pretend your DW is not pregnant in order to avoid upsetting BIL and his girlfriend who are in another country?! How could it possibly upset them when they are not there?

3 pieces of advice

1. Find someone else to look after your son when your wife goes into labour.
2. Say once that you are not going on holiday and are not paying towards it, then ignore.
3. Do not have BIL staying with you. If your DW is up to it, happily have them over/visit them but do not host. She will have just given birth, possibly have just moved. No-one who is there to do anything other than help has a place there.

It's a bit odd that BIL has to have this bonding time with his new niece that no-one has been able to talk about in case of upsetting other BIL.

Support your DW. Be the fall guy.
Once the baby is here, if they are still nuts and show signs of not treating her and your wife well, encourage your wife to make connections and support outside of her family so she is not so reliant on them.

Not sure if guidelines have changed, but you are advised not to have babies in car seats for long periods of time as it can be very dangerous. 12 hours travelling with a newborn? Absolutely not. That is before passports and your wife needing a wheelchair, delays on flights etc.

Your wife needs to speak to your midwife/team and let them know what the family are saying. Let them help her formulate a plan.

In reality you need to sit down with the wife and be realistic about what she can achieve. If her answer is "I just have to do what they want" then you need to step in and block.

Your wife needs a wider support mechanism - can she link with ds's friends parents? Can the midwife suggest groups which might help. Unfortunately she needs to accept that these people are not her only friends she is very capable of being without them.

Shut down the holiday abroad - birth certificates, passports let alone vaccinations will shut that down so she does not need to worry about that. The fast track for children takes at least a week it cannot happen in 1 day as an adult renew can no matter how much you pay. And you need a birth certificate before you start!

They are bullying your wife. Of course you can't go on holiday, so close to the due date, especially when she's so ill. I feel so sorry for you both. Honestly, you should take your wife to hospital to have the baby, and look after your child. Avoid the in laws and withdraw from them. It's insane of mil to suggest her brother stays with you, when she has a new born baby in a new home. They'll be boxes everywhere and baby stuff. It will be exhausting for you and your wife, so why on earth add a guest to the mix?! After the baby's settled, encourage your wife to attend baby groups. She will make friends, she needs that lifeline away from her crazy and over bearing family.

The fact that your wife cried about how your daughter might be treated by her mum just shows how fucked up this whole situation is.

What happens if your son isn't the favoured GS?

I mean he really needs protecting from these people not subjecting to them.

First thing for me would be to find childcare for your son, next to make it clear that you will not go on the holiday or pay anything.

Hard for your wife I know as this is how she has been brought up-but she is under no obligation to spend any time with her mum or siblings if she doesn't want to.

Hi OP,
You describe your wife as being very determined/not a burden/not obstructive and I am sure you are right, but she has a new priority now.

Her (and your) priority is not to please and socialise with extended family at the moment. It is to create a calm, safe "nest" for your baby. It is also to create a calm safe base for your partner as her wellbeing impacts the baby. You don't yet know everything your baby needs but you know it categorically does not need to be travelling abroad on holiday at 2 weeks old. That is not putting your babys needs first. It is putting them last.

I am not judging anyone that has travelled with a newborn - perhaps to reunite family or get help from gran. But this is not that. This is a holiday and one the patents don't want to go on. One where baby's needs will be put last that is evident from the fact it was booked in the first place.

As someone who has been through HG it’s the hardest thing I have ever done mentally. Not having family support if that is what she is use to will be horrible. Has she been in contact with the pregnancy sickness org? They have a phone line where you can call and cry down the phone to people who get it. I would also be concerned about her mental health, she may need counselling afterwards and has a higher chance of PND.

Regards to the holiday after HG you are so drained it can take months to get back to normal health levels or even close to a year. Even without HG no way I would take a new born at 2 weeks away and I wouldn’t be paying a fair share either that’s completely ridiculous. Plus as PP stated no to get a passport that quickly.

I have had friends who have had IVF and yes they are sad for themselves and I make a conscious effort not to talk about the baby all the time but they are happy for me and still ask questions / interact a bit. What’s the plan once the baby is here? Pretend they don’t exsist?

Dear god, the only solution to this is boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.

The pair of you are being bullied. Your wife has enough on so discuss it w her, but you likely need to do the standing up for the pair of you.

Ring your MIL say you aren’t going on holiday or having BIL to stay. Your wife is Ill and there is a baby due, and a toddler, and you need to focus on that. Follow up by email. Send an email to SIL and visiting BIL saying same.

suggest your wife screens calls and you take them, but you can certainly text rather than talk. Find someone else to look after your toddler, they are utterly toxic and you need to cut ties.

It’s find it will all feel abrupt, they need to realise change is happening. The challenging pregnancy is awful but it does give you a handy excuse to help you through the change so use it.

stop the rubbish of hiding the pregnancy, mention it when and where you want.

Do some reading on abusive families and how to manage them (maybe start a new thread asking for advice) and look up the grey rock technique.

protect your family

also, do you think it’s a coincidence both BILs live abroad? I doubt it.

If they were as supportive as your dw thinks they are then they should have been there through these past few months and let her talk about what has been happening. They are awful people, and like abusive partners, use their nice side to keep her on side.
You are not being unreasonable by saying you will not be going on the holiday and will not be paying 'your part' for it.
I don't understand this mentality of not being allowed to talk about a pregnancy because it might upset someone else. Of course, be sensitive and not go on and on about it being blind to their feelings. That said, they aren't being sensitive to your dw in not letting her talk about it. Have they even seen her during her pregnancy?

As you're fine with being the bad guy and MIL already prioritises men, use it.

'MY baby will not be travelling if she is here. I am NOT hosting anybody whilst I am getting to know MY daughter and cooking my wife regular meals so that she can begin to recover from 9 months of near starvation due to her illness whilst carrying MY child. I am NOT driving my temporarily disabled/recovering wife and family miles every day when I am short on sleep and still being her sole source of support because YOU have refused to provide any or even let her have any from her sister. If the baby is here, I am NOT going to be trying to get a birth registration appointment and then a passport when I could be with MY wife and children. And I AM NOT going to allow her to do all that for your benefit, either. If you try to force her to take my son out of the country whilst I stay with our daughter because she can't travel without a passport, I'll just refuse permission and they'll be stopped at passport control. The wellbeing of my wife and my children is the only thing that matters to me and I will NOT allow them to be dismissed.'

You and your wife need to prioritise her as she’s in very fragile state physically and mentally.

Your inlaws sound like toxic selfish batshits imposing so much on your poor wife.

Find another childcare for labour and step back from people who don’t have an inch of compassion and clearly don’t have a shit about your poor wife.

Say “no” to holidays and hosting BIL.

You don’t have to bow to absolutely crazy demands they are placing on you and your wife.

Once your wife is recovering from labour I would suggest some counselling for her as the family she comes from is clearly dysfunctional(to say that mildly).

Get these people off your and you wife’s back as they are hounding you and unnecessarily adding to your and your wife stress levels.

Wishing you all the best 💐

This,with bells (loud) on.
for your wife.

MIL needs a metaphorical kick in the star! You can't take a new born on holiday, ridiculous in these circumstances! How can they be such idiots!
Yes of play the bad guy, calmly set the situation that's it's unreasonable. God knows if your DWwill be up by then either - insane!
As for the baby being a girl, make it VERY clear of things aren't fair That's disgraceful behaviour! Were they the school bullies?

Your wife doesn't "get on well" with MIL and SIL she's been pushed into being compliant for so long she doesn't know what friendships really look like. They're probably the reason she has no friends, does she know how to make friends with people? Or does it always start out great then after about 6 weeks MIL/SIL have convinced her to drop them for perceived faults? When you live with people like that for long enough they don't even need to be there telling you to drop your friends, you just unconsciously judge everyone and see problems where there aren't any.

These people aren't family, they're relatives. They've created a dependence that you both think you can't do without them. But it's not real. It's just narcissistic control. It's how they keep people in their world.

How would they react if your wife really truly lost her shit at them about this and told them what was what and how she felt? They would minimise and dismiss her concerns and tell her she was out of line for bringing them up.

She's scared of losing her friends/childcare but if she stops being hit in the head with a hammer by these people every day she'll have more bandwidth to find actual friends and help.

Your wife doesn't "get on well" with MIL and SIL she's been pushed into being compliant for so long she doesn't know what friendships really look like.

Yup!

I've had more help from people I barely know than these people have given your wife.

Sounds so stressful for your poor DW and you.

if they are genuinely nice people say no to the holiday and put the blame well and truly on the fact the new baby won’t get a passport in time due to the delays with passports. If needed say the doctor said no to flying after the birth (I’ve assumed flying 🫣) or long car trips.

BIL staying is a strong no, let the BIL know the reason hopefully this person will have enough social understanding they will not want to stay

Then in the long term keep a close eye on this dynamic LC or NC might be needed.

MIL sounds AWFUL. But you and your wife need to put your foot down.
you do not have to spend lots of time at MILs
you do not have to have BIL to stay
you do not have to go on holiday
it sounds like you’re going along with things or giving reasons you can’t do things only to be bulldozed into it anyway
stop giving reasons
stop staying quiet
say no. we won’t be going.
no. We can’t do that.
no. That doesn’t work for us.
by all means explain if you want to, but ultimately the clear answer needs to be ‘no.’
Rather than ‘we’re not sure’ ‘that may be difficult’ ‘the baby might not have a passport’

if your wife needs extra support can you help source that from anywhere else? Can you do it? Or can you speak directly to MIL and SIL and explain, if they’re nice people maybe they don’t see what’s happening - I do suspect that they do and they’re just horrible though so this may be a pointless endeavour.

this is a difficult line for you, because you can’t cut off what your wife views as close family and support if she doesn’t want you to. But you also can’t sit by and watch her be bullied and not help her when she is at her weakest. You have my sympathies!!

Word for word.

Your wife has grown up in a highly emotionally abusive home and you need to protect yourself and your children from them.

She desperately needs counselling.

Send the above and protect your wife from them.

It’s really bizarre that you begin your first post by declaring that you are all a close family, then go on to describe very manipulative relationships and poor communication. I wonder whether the fact that MIL treats you so well as a golden male child has swayed your perception of how bad this seems to everyone else.
Your next update, declaring that the family relationship is more positive than negative, but that your wife cried when you found out your child is a girl because the baby will be treated less well is exactly a reflection of this. I feel sorry for your daughter, about to be born into this and growing up with misogyny that’s backed up by your defence of their behaviour.
Your wife needs to forge a relationship with her siblings that’s independent of their collective relationship with their mother. She needs to be able to have conversations with them that are not vetoed by MIL. Her first brother may be horrified to realise that his sisters pregnancy is being hidden from him and that his sister is so unwell.
You both need to stand up for yourselves as a family unit, and you in particular need to step out of the golden shadow and recognise how badly your wife is being treated by her family. Stop justifying their poor behaviour because it makes you as bad as them.
Say no to the holiday, stand up for yourselves. What if your wife has a c-section and is still recovering from surgery? Ridiculous to plan a holiday with a 2-week old. Say yes to BIL2 staying if you both want to see him, but make it clear he will need to pitch in with cooking meals, helping with your older child, etc.
Where are your family? Do you have parents or siblings who can help with your older child during the birth/house move? Any friends who can do the same?

The way this is written is these people are awful. Yet there is a little nugget in there where you say she relies on them for support and friendship, which means clearly there is a side yoire not presenting. I assume as you want the answers to say they are all toxic?

yout wife is clearly close to her family. Let her decide. She’s a grown up and let her handle it.

I think in this case you're going to have to be the one to put your foot down . Being pregnant is hard enough as it is without any complications let alone what you're wife is going through.
She doesn't need this stress and her family are being incredibly toxic.
I'd maybe try and speak to the mother one on one and simply state the facts. You'll not be attending the holiday under any circumstances and you will not be making any sort of financial contribution as it was booked without your consent. Explain that she needs to step up and support her daughter through an obviously difficult pregnancy. It's sad that her son is struggling to conceive but she has more than one child. I'd also be making it abundantly clear that if they are unable to keep their toxic/negative behaviour away from your wife then they need to stay away and be NC.
I'd explain to your wife that she must put herself first and that the stress is not helping her.
I think unfortunately you're going to need to be "the bad guy" to be the good guy.
But her family seem awful quite honestly, but she obviously can't see it.

Oh Lord, what a pickle you find yourselves in. Your in-laws sound vile, however well your DW gets on with them when she is fulfilling her role as the family people pleaser. That sounds harsh but there is one in most disordered families and it's not her fault, they made her grow up that way.
First of all I would like to say much respect to you for being ready to go into bat for your DW and children. Now, how best to achieve a good result? What is the situation with your side of the family? Might any of them be able to look after DS while the birth happens? If not, could you consider a temporary nanny/maternity nurse? They are very expensive but if you can it deals with one huge chunk of the problem in that you aren't beholden to mad MIL.
Obviously you need to say NO to stupid holiday plans and BIL coming to stay (unless he might be useful shifting boxes, organising things and entertaining your DS, can you ask him?) and you may have to overrule your wife. I would never normally say this because your wife's autonomy would usually trump everything else but in this particular instance you are going to have to put your foot down. It sounds like you are ready to do so, thank goodness.
Regarding the saying NO bit. Perhaps take some time tomorrow to do some homework. Arm yourself with some realistic appraisals of the practical problems that would occur from following the in laws' demented orders. Speak to your local regsitrar's office for an actual estimate of how long it will take to register the birth. Speak to the passport office about whether it is even possible to get a passport for the baby in time. Then speak to the midwives about the dreadful effect this is all having on your wife and what suggestions they might have. All you need is one to tell you the whole thing is a 100% shitty idea! Hopefully this will give you lots of leverage with MIL, she can't argue with facts though she might still try. Still and all, you stil have the power of NO, and you never know they might all just deflate like burst balloons. Remember, all bullies are ultimately cowards.
I probably have a lot more to say re favoured GCs, the stupidity of the whole family in lying to the couple who are doing IVF etc etc but I think I've said enough! Best of luck to you.

Yet there is a little nugget in there where you say she relies on them for support and friendship

But perhaps it is the way that they have made it & it is control rather than anything else?

Op then also posts that it's unlikely MIL will be interested in his wife whilst her son is visiting-to the point that she is no longer willing to look after her GS whilst her GD is being born!

That is bat shit. Put your foot down now.