To be amazed how much women benefit financially from marriage

[Singleparent78]

I've been single most of my adult life, worked FT and built up a good career but despite this... I'm always struck how much better off women who are married are than me.

It's not just about the merging together of two salaries, but about how much easier financial life is when you have the benefit of a man's higher average income, giving many women a lifestyle they could never afford on their own salaries.

Consider:

• the many women I work with on low salaries or working part-time who are living much nicer lifestyles than I as they have a man significantly supplementing them.

• the married women I know at 45+ who have moved to part-time or stopped working as they have accrued significant savings with their dh but, critically, their dh is now a high earner who can pay for both of them.

• the girls from school who didn't go onto further education, got married soon out of school and haven't worked at all or a bit of p-time - they mostly live in nice houses and cars, have enjoyed nice holidays etc. There hasn't been much 'penalty' for not being independent or not having a career.

All in all these women, by way of marriage, seem to have an easier go than solo me slogging it out for 30 years working FT and trying my best to be independent.... like the teachers at school told us girls to be!

I understand: all the constraints on women to generate their own income esp the gender pay gap and the impact of childrearing; that the above scenarios don't apply to all couples; that I'm assuming a heterosexual set up; that women contribute within marriages in other way than bringing in income; and that assets in a marriage are shared as is any income that comes into a marriage. I know people might think I'm being anti-women for challenging women's choices or women's rights or just plain bitter...

Still, AIBU to wonder:.......Is it not depressing that the best or most common way for women to be financially comfortable or create wealth is still through marriage and the merging of assets with a man?

@WorriedWoking I think I stated my POV in my final paragraph of my original post:

Is it not depressing that the best or most common way for women to be financially comfortable or create wealth is still through marriage and the merging of assets with a man?

I'm saying that ensuring financial security is probably easier done by marrying a man than accruing one's own wealth. And I wonder how this has repercussions on women's decisions.

Frankly if that's the case why not tell our daughters to marry well vs get a skill or career. Everyone will say, 'no no it's important that our daughters are independent' but the truth is most women are still generating a lot of their wealth and getting their financial security through marriage not their own jobs

Most women aren't though.
Not all men are high earners.
Average earnings will be skewed by the elite in high level roles.

Who now through assortative mating tend to marry other high fliers.
Those pesky couples are skewing for the rest of us. Maybe they should be stopped from accruing all the resources?

I agree ideal looks different to all of us.

I don’t understand the view though that a career is something positive - like when you say you think it’s sad some people have to choose between the well-being of their children or a career - why would I want a career anyway? I’ve never had any desire for one. Working outside of the home has never held any appeal for me, and I struggle to see why anyone finds it positive outside of a capitalist lense. Even my husband, who has a “good career” doesn’t do it for any fulfilment, he does it to provide. If he could spend all his time with us, he would. We both have such varied interests and hobbies, that I find it pretty depressing that so many people don’t value their families and their time the same way. It seems a waste of a life to me - what will peoples headstones say - “here lies Claire, she was never late to work and sacrificed the best years of her life to a company that will replace her without a second thought”? It’s just…I don’t know how to articulate it. Capitalism seems empty to me and I don’t know how else to see it. But you are right that we all have different views and will see this differently, I just don’t understand some of the views on a personal level.

Forest Fae I largely agree although if I had my time again I would try and get more help in early year's Even a few mornings a week in a nursery.

In my circle of friends, family and acquaintances, there are many ways children came into this world. Some by happy accident.

Some with very careful planning and all those in between..some are single mums who have had a hard time ,had to work etc no proper support from the feckless dad's.

Some mum's became a sahm for a few year's, some worked then became a sham some wanted too but definitely couldn't afford too. Some did part time mostly for their own sanity!

The ones I didn't understand I must admit I'm thinking of two in my NCT group were putting DC into nursery from very young probably 6 months all day everyday.
The specific two I'm.thinking of had high earning partners and were also both doing well In the corporate structure ( I think one worked for glaxo).
Jamaica for holidays, stressing about which High end kitchen to get and hot water taps... expensive high lights... parents had "land" they camped on .. expensive cars.

I must admit I did wonder why they had DC?
To literally have them in a nursery from babies long Hours so they could continue with their careers and expensive lifestyle without skipping a beat?

I felt it was a selfish choice.

I’ve been married twice and if I had stayed married to either of them would be in a nice financial position. I now live in local authority housing with my adult son who has ASD and I am far happier than I ever was as part of a couple. I run a small business and have space to be creative, make all my own decisions and nobody to please. I once spoke to a client in a huge house, she confessed she was really unhappy in her marriage but she had sold her modest three bed semi to buy their substantial marital home. They’re still together so she chose the lifestyle and house above happiness which seems crazy to me. That was sixteen years ago. I wouldn’t swap places with her for anything.

Yes, I completely agree with you, I don’t understand people like that either. It’s such an alien thing to me. It’s like people who have a dog when they work long hours and hire dog sitters - what exactly is the point?

Thanks for replying. I think I’m beginning to understand. Are you making a feminist argument i.e. that it’s awful that women are forced to be dependent on men financially, even in our supposedly more enlightened times?

I don’t agree that we should simply give in and teach our girls that marrying for money is the right ambition though. I think we should teach them to achieve financial independence for themselves and fight for a more equitable society i.e. equal pay for equal work and making it more normal for men to take paternity leave and do their fair share of childcare.

That’s not to say that those women who prefer to stay at home to raise a family whilst their partner works to earn the money are wrong though. I see both as valid choices, providing they are actually choices rather than necessity because women continue to be disadvantaged by taking maternity leave and seeing their careers tank as a result.

And it's totally fine that you don't get it and that you don't want that for yourself. The problem is only when you don't acknowledge that other people really do want that, and that your lack of interest in a career doesn't invalidate their sense of fulfilment from having one. To you, having a career would feel like a waste of your life. To my poor mum, being a sahp felt like a terrible waste of her talents. It wasn't that she didn't value her family - she was a bloody fantastic mum and she loved us more than life itself - but she feels that she could have done so much more with her life and with her many gifts, and that she could have had a much wider impact on society without compromising on what she gave to her family. Neither of you are right or wrong, it's just how you feel.

I really don't know why you think people don't value their families. I certainly value mine above anything else, but that doesn't mean that I need to spend every waking moment of my life in their company. Frankly, they're off living busy and fulfilling lives of their own a lot of the time, and that's how I like it. I j7st don't see a loving family life as being endlessly gazing inwards towards each other. My family are all looking out towards the wider community, supporting each other and cheering each other on as we contribute to that community.

I also don't know why you feel it's fine to have interests and hobbies, and that that's time well spent, but as soon as something attracts a salary, it suddenly becomes pointless? So many people manage to find work in areas that interest them, and some even turn their hobbies and passions into work that pays. Is that kind of career ok in your view? Not everyone is just a wage slave, going through the motions of the daily grind in a job that they hate, simply so that they can buy the next iPhone. For many of us, work is about learning, development, achievement, a sense of pride, self actualisation.

I'm sorry that your DH has never found work that gives him a sense of fulfilment. If he is only working to provide, do you never feel that you should share that burden with him so that he too can enjoy more time with family?

I suppose it’s what your expectations are, to an extent. We are a very close knit family, so your description of them being “off living busy lives” isn’t really what it’s like for us. We are a rural family, my own mum only worked part time, both me and her raise my children together in an outdoors lifestyle - we work the land together, we forage, we craft things and my children come along with us. They also spend a lot of time with my dad, my husbands extended family. None of us are off jetsetting or anything like that, it’s not what we tend to do.

Re hobbies, I don’t have an issue with people turning hobbies into money, I actually am an artist and will sell my work at times, but that’s something I do because I love it and isn’t a career exactly - I make art regardless of whether I sell it or not, selling it is just a bonus I sometimes get.

it’s the daily grind I have an issue with, the way society expects employees to give their heart, mind and soul to a company for very little back. I have no issue with community work or actual helpful work. I’m not anti-labour, I’m against the way it’s structured in current society.

Regarding my husband, he would feel that way about any career because his driving motivation is his family and he loves being a father (not trying to say others don’t). We’ve discussed which of us should stay home, as we both strongly believe kids benefit from one person being the SAHP, but he has more opportunities financially than I do and his field is more lucrative than mine, meaning it gives the kids more opportunities.

Op for my own dd I hope obviously that they are able to work in fields that they enjoy and that they earn enough for a lifestyle they want.

Apparently, according to many researchers, wealth between the sexes comes down to investing...
Women simply don't invest like men do.
And it's likely to be something passed down in wealthier families.

So I'm drumming investment into my girls, they already each have a small stocks and shares juniors ISA.

And I keep meaning to open them a sipp. A self invested personal pension as well.

The idea being that you keep your capital and grow it and at some point you can use the dividends and growth as an income stream.

Forest Fae I agree,it's a Very American mindset.

And what concerns me is people doing it Just because without actually mindfully thinking, is this best for me and my family?

I think we also all do a bit of...it's what I had growing up so it's good enough for me it's good enough for them.

Exactly. Society has normalised it and people accept it as it’s just “what you do”. I really wish we could all have a more intentional, mindful existence.

People from outside would have looked at her and thought "she did well as a SAHM on the back of her wealthy hubby" but the reality is the opposite. People don't understand what goes on behind closed doors and don't realise the blood sweat and tears needed to be successful, often done by the spouse who people wrongly thinks just sits at home filing her nails!

What you described is someone doing an admin role for a business which couldn't afford to pay anyone else to do it. Once the business could scrape together enough to pay someone, it did so.

This person has still "done well...on the back of her wealthy hubby" as you put it. She's just, for a period of time, done some admin work for free.

Yes, it is absolutely about expectations and what you want out of life. My family is also very close, but the life you describe wouldn't suit us at all. It's very far from what we would choose. Your life suits you and your DH, and that's great. Our lives suit us, and that's great too. There is no one right way of living.

Your view of paid work sounds very negative, and I'm sorry that you've had such bad experiences. I have been lucky enough to have mostly had very good employers who have never asked me for more than is reasonable and who have always understood that employees have lives outside of work and seen that as a positive thing. Giving your life and soul to an organisation and failing to balance it with the other parts of your life would typically be seen as a performance issue, and as a problem that needed to be resolved. Certainly not a strength or a virtue.

As a manager, I genuinely care about the wellbeing of my staff and the balance that they are able to achieve between work and other aspects of their lives. Ensuring that they have a positive experience of work and that they're able to balance it effectively with their other interests and responsibilities is part of what gives me satisfaction in my role. They are whole people, not just robots, and it is rewarding to see their growth and development as individuals. They certainly don't live to work, but I hope that most of them will find some kind of meaning and satisfaction in their work lives... and I believe that they do, as there are frankly much easier ways of them earning money if that's all that they cared about.

Well, some of us actively choose the opposite of what we had growing up too. It all depends on how you perceive stuff.

It's foolish to assume that everyone with a career is on some kind of mindless path that they've never thought of getting off. Many of us may have considered different alternatives, and decided that they weren't for us. And that's OK too. Just because you have found a lifestyle that works for you, that doesn't mean that your way of living is better than everyone else's.

I totally accept that some people - men and women - have no interest in a career, and I respect that choice. If they're able to find a way of funding their lifestyle and making it work, then all power to them. What I don't accept is how smugly they dismiss people who have made different choices as if those people are merely sleepwalking through life and haven't seen that there is a better way. It simply isn't like that.

Oh for fuck's sake.

Feel free to spend your day foraging with your mother and children and doing a bit of painting on the side. That's lovely: it actually is. Not a life I would want, but a life to be admired.

But don't bring this tired old bullshit out to play.

Parents can love their children just as deeply as you do--and also put them in nursery.

I was in nursery from the time I was nine months old. It was stimulating, educative, and nurturing. I grew up unafraid of other people or new situations. As it happens, I also made some of my best friends, to this day, in nursery. And at the end of the day, one of my parents picked me up and took me home and we had a grand old time. Guess what: I absolutely adore both my parents. I know exactly who they are. We talk on the phone every day, even decades later. I am well-adjusted, content, and secure.

So GTFOH with this nonsense about selfishness and dog walkers. You're trying to validate your own decisions by criticizing others'. It's boring, pathetic nonsense.

Congrats on making the choices you have. I genuinely hope it brings you happiness. But don't mistake your choice for a universal good.

And please: don't denigrate my lovely, loving mother, a women whom I deeply admire not only as a mother but also as a human, with her own skills and talents and ambitions and determination to make a difference in this world.

It’s not that it’s better, I just find it odd because it’s unnatural - what would “career people” have done in ages past, when we were Hunter gatherers? Or even slightly later? I just don’t get the mentality of not wanting to raise your own kids, but I don’t think it should be banned or anything. People are free to choose things I personally find weird.

To be honest, I'd far rather pay someone else to do the foraging, so that I can spend my time doing stuff that I actually find interesting. But each to their own...

I think that’s pretty sad in itself. So many people are disconnected from the natural world.

There we go, "it's unnatural". "Not raising your own kids". You say it's "not that it's better" but there is so much judgement running through your posts. And so much ignorance.

If you want to go back to a hunter gatherer lifestyle, be my guest. Forsake the advances of modern medicine, by all means. Forgo the benefits of modern technology if you like, and spend every waking hour taking care of your basic survival needs. Cut your kids off from the modern world if you like, and hope that they thank you for it. You might find that it isn't quite as idyllic as you think.

As to your question about what "career people" would have done in days gone by... why do you think that we aren't still hunter gatherers? Do you not think that, throughout history, there have been people who were ambitious, creative and innovative? People who saw that life wasn't just about basic survival and reproduction? People who saw ways of doing things differently? Ways of making things better? People who were curious about the world and wanted to learn more about how things worked? People who wanted to use their talents for the greater good of their communities?

And I find you sitting in judgement on everyone pretty sad.

We don't all have to enjoy the same things.

its pretty funny you’re insinuating “career people”, who are the majority and the status quo, are the innovative ones who see things differently.

If you enjoy that lifestyle, you’re welcome to it. I’m free to think it doesn’t make sense.

You are indeed free to think whatever you like. As indeed am I.

I just don’t get the mentality of not wanting to raise your own kids,

And here we are..... this comment speaks volumes. 🙄