To be amazed how much women benefit financially from marriage

[Singleparent78]

I've been single most of my adult life, worked FT and built up a good career but despite this... I'm always struck how much better off women who are married are than me.

It's not just about the merging together of two salaries, but about how much easier financial life is when you have the benefit of a man's higher average income, giving many women a lifestyle they could never afford on their own salaries.

Consider:

• the many women I work with on low salaries or working part-time who are living much nicer lifestyles than I as they have a man significantly supplementing them.

• the married women I know at 45+ who have moved to part-time or stopped working as they have accrued significant savings with their dh but, critically, their dh is now a high earner who can pay for both of them.

• the girls from school who didn't go onto further education, got married soon out of school and haven't worked at all or a bit of p-time - they mostly live in nice houses and cars, have enjoyed nice holidays etc. There hasn't been much 'penalty' for not being independent or not having a career.

All in all these women, by way of marriage, seem to have an easier go than solo me slogging it out for 30 years working FT and trying my best to be independent.... like the teachers at school told us girls to be!

I understand: all the constraints on women to generate their own income esp the gender pay gap and the impact of childrearing; that the above scenarios don't apply to all couples; that I'm assuming a heterosexual set up; that women contribute within marriages in other way than bringing in income; and that assets in a marriage are shared as is any income that comes into a marriage. I know people might think I'm being anti-women for challenging women's choices or women's rights or just plain bitter...

Still, AIBU to wonder:.......Is it not depressing that the best or most common way for women to be financially comfortable or create wealth is still through marriage and the merging of assets with a man?

In what way? The example that another poster gave - putting your child in nursery full time, at 6 months, when it’s not financially necessary - I think it’s valid to question why someone would do that out of choice? What other animal does this?

I do believe I would have progressed. I know that there have been promotion opportunities within my own company, which I would have gone for, and know could have got except for fact that they needed full time hours.
Outside of my own employer, I have been approached several times, and have always said no due to 1, part time hours and 2, location of my employer to my childcare.

I do not claim that I would have reached the dizzy heights of the absolute top of the career ladder but I certainly would have progressed more than I have done.

While there are people who this doesn't reflect, it is my experience of taking a back seat who supporting dh and children. But it was my decision to do this.

In what way? The example that another poster gave - putting your child in nursery full time, at 6 months, when it’s not financially necessary - I think it’s valid to question why someone would do that out of choice? What other animal does this?

Do you think someone who uses full time childcare isn't raising their own children? Do you understand how offensive that statement is?

It wasn’t my intention to offend, so I’m sorry for that. I do think if your child is in nursery full time, from 8 until 6, they’re spending the majority of their waking hours with someone who isn’t their parents. I don’t understand why someone would choose that not out of necessity.

I think it's quite clear now that @ForestFae knows exactly how offensive it is, not to mention the descriptions of working parents (or perhaps it's just working mothers?) as "odd" and "unnatural, and despite the faux innocence that she is trying to cultivate on this thread, she is using it for deliberate effect.

I am not offended personally because I struggle to care what people think when they're so obviously ignorant, but others are likely to find it upsetting. Personally, I find it somewhat pathetic that someone feels the need to denigrate the perfectly valid choices that others have have made simply in order to feel OK about their own lives. It's quite sad.

I am not intending to be offensive. I don’t think critiquing a societal structure is necessarily offended and I don’t understand why people need to take it personally when my criticisms were clearly aimed at the society and culture rather than individuals. I’m also not sure why you’re saying I’m ignorant, but if it helps you sleep at night crack on.

Also, I feel fine about my own life. I made the choices that I wished to, couldn’t give a monkeys if others agree or don’t agree. What a strange thing to say. Clearly, you need to create a narrative about me because you don’t like me criticising modern society.

It wasn’t my intention to offend, so I’m sorry for that. I do think if your child is in nursery full time, from 8 until 6, they’re spending the majority of their waking hours with someone who isn’t their parents. I don’t understand why someone would choose that not out of necessity.

Buts it not for you to understand. People have their own reasons.
I went back to work full time when my DS was 10 months and we used full time nursery. That doesn't mean I stopped raising my own own child. There is so much more to raising a child than being present 24/7.

Instead of raising, I should’ve said being the person who spends the majority of the time with their child then. I still don’t understand why someone would have a child and not want at least one of them to be the person that child sees the majority of the time.

I don't need any help sleeping at night, but thanks for your concern.

I think you're ignorant because it's evident from many of your posts.

Critiquing a society is not offensive in the slightest, if it is done in an intelligent, fact-based way. Making snide little digs about other people's choices is offensive and there is no question that you already know that. I actually feel rather sorry for you if that's the only thing you have to make yourself feel good about your life.

That’s not what I’m doing. I haven’t made snide digs at anyone, in fact you’re the one doing that to me by claiming I’m ignorant, unintelligent and have nothing else to feel good about in my life apparently. Who is judging who exactly?

Oh, I am judging you now, absolutely. I make no apology for that.

I don't judge you for being a SAHP in the slightest. I think that's a perfectly valid life choice for those who want it. But I absolutely judge you for your sad attempts to denigrate working mums and to assert your own choices as the better ones. That leads me to the conclusion that your life is not that great after all.

I haven’t attempted to denigrate any working mums and you reading that into anything I’ve said is an issue you yourself have to come to terms with. You can think whatever you wish to about my life, it doesn’t change my reality and my happiness. I hope you find peace and stop seeing offence where there is none.

I was better off financially when I was single 🤷🏻‍♀️

I took 4 months of mat leave with both my children. My husband took 2 months of paternity leave concurrently with my mat leave. Thereafter our kids have been cared for by our wonderful nanny. This was the best decision for our family and one I don't regret making. It meant both my husband and I were able to keep our careers on track, which is important because it makes us happy to be professionally successful in addition to providing us with enormous financial benefits. In spite of taking limited time out after their birth, both our children are very bonded to us. We make a lot of effort to spend quality time with them around our work commitments. I am in no doubt that we are "raising" them, despite not being as present as a sahp. Anyway, I guess all I meant to say is that it takes all sorts, @ForestFae. We all do it differently. One thing I am sure of - the vast majority of parents will be making the best decisions they can for their family, whatever they decide to do.

You have said that it's odd.

You have said that it's unnatural.

You have said that people are not raising their own kids.

You have said that people don't value family.

You've said that people's work is pointless.

And yet you don't think that any of that is denigrating to working mums? Sorry, but I just don't believe you.

As for me, I don't need to find peace or come to terms with anything. My dd is nearly an adult now. She is happy and thriving, and I am content that we have been able to give her the type of childhood that we wanted for her. I have no regrets, and I genuinely don't care what random people on the Internet think. But I'm aware that some people do. Some people are not so secure in their own choices, and your comments will have hurt them. I hope you're proud of that.

I don't want to change your reality. If you're happy with your life, then I'm glad for you, genuinely, but perhaps you might find that you would be even happier if you spent a bit less time pissing on other people's chips? Shitting on other people's choices might make you feel good in the short term, but in the long term, it will just make you feel shit about yourself.

Instead of raising, I should’ve said being the person who spends the majority of the time with their child then. I still don’t understand why someone would have a child and not want at least one of them to be the person that child sees the majority of the time.

So do the majority of dads not raise their children then?

We're now trying out the old ' I don't understand why people have children' line..... it's like mumsnet bingo 🙄

You’ve taken that a bit out of context. Saying that something is unnatural is factual - living in houses is unnatural, driving cars is unnatural. I’ve said society doesn’t value family life, which I think is a fair assessment. And I think it’s fine to find other peoples choices odd - I’m sure people find plenty of my choices odd! I also don’t think it’s offensive to say most jobs are pointless - there’s a movement called the anti work movement which explains the stance more succinctly than I, if you search it.

I’m glad you’re happy with your choices, honestly. I am also not trying to insult any individual, contrary to what you seem to think. My gripe if you can call it that, is with society as a whole, not what any individual does within that society.

The majority of dads are not primary caregivers and have less to do with the day to day upbringing of their children than their mothers do. I think that’s just a factual statement?

The majority of dads are not primary caregivers and have less to do with the day to day upbringing of their children than their mothers do. I think that’s just a factual statement?

That doesn't answer the question. Do you think working dads aren't raising their children?

Interestingly, the fact we both work means we both play an equal role in the day to day upbringing of our child which I think is a benefit to all of us.

My ex is very bad with money and so I am much better off having separated. For me, marriage was a bad financial decision as he wasted away huge amounts of our income. Being single I’m able to budget and manage our money well and enjoy what is left over without worrying about someone else accruing huge debts

I think they are raising them secondarily with the mother being the one who is raising them for the majority of the time.

I get that, but that means a third party is doing some of the rest of it, how much depends on the hours - that’s something I am personally not okay with and don’t personally understand why others would be.

I want to make it clear though, I’m not saying people should be banned from doing this or that you’re a bad person if you make different choices to me. Just that to me, I can’t understand why someone would do it and that I think society isn’t really geared up to support natural family structures. Im not saying anyone who agrees with the current societal structures or makes different decisions is a terrible person.

I think they are raising them secondarily with the mother being the one who is raising them for the majority of the time
Just no.

Unnatural is an incredibly loaded word.

Unless you're living like wild animals, naked and fending for yourselves in the forest (and heaven help your kids if that's the case, but somehow I don't think you'd have access to MN in that scenario), then you have already departed from your very narrow definition of what is "natural", so it's irrelevant to make further distinctions of that nature.

It's disingenuous to pretend that you're not putting value judgements into your assessment of what is and isn't "natural". And it's disingenuous, frankly, for you to come on this thread and pretend that you're not trying to have a pop at working mums because it's evident from your posts that that's exactly what you're doing.

And yes, you keep saying that it's about society and not about individuals, but in the next breath you are asking oh so innocent questions about why people even have children if they're not prepared to make the same choices as you have when raising them.

Can I ask why? Surely the one doing most of the raising is the one who’s with the child?