AIBU to be fed-up of non-drivers seeking lifts?

[GoldfinchTart]

Disclaimer: this post is not about people who for whatever reason — sight problems, epilepsy, disability, poverty etc — cannot drive. It's about people who could learn to drive but don't want to.

Earlier this week I had a knock at the door and it was a couple asking if I could lend them some gardening equipment. They're in the process of buying a property a few doors along from me. It's a probate sale and it's taking ages, so they'd come down (with the vendors' permission) to start tidying up the garden which has become quite overgrown. They wanted a rake and a spade and loppers 'Because it's difficult to carry a rake on the train'. I invited them in and made them tea while I went to unlock the shed and find the tools. Turns out neither of them drive. He has a licence but found driving stressful and she prefers to be driven.

Our houses are a half-mile walk to a bus stop which isn't much fun when it's pouring with rain. I raised an eyebrow and asked if they cycle? Electric bikes are getting popular around here. We're 11 hilly miles from the nearest major town for shopping and transport links. No, they don't cycle. Long silence. I said that was a pity: taxis were very expensive because they had to come out from the town. She said that they have very nice neighbours where they currently live and they help out with lifts. Apparently the nice neighbours had run these two to the station that morning and would pick them up on their return. And then she asked 'I don't suppose you'd be going into town around 4pm, would you?' Fortunately I had a full afternoon's zoom meeting booked and showed them my diary. My partner and I try to be good neighbours but surely this was a very large red flag?

Next week I'm going to a book festival. I'm going in the camper van my partner and I share. A friend who doesn't drive is coming by train and will be travelling with a tent and camping gear. We arranged that I would be at Hereford station to pick her and her gear up at a certain time. It was planned to give us time to drive to the festival campsite and then for me to go and attend one of the events, which I've booked and paid for in advance. Today she's contacted me to say that she can't get anyone to give her a lift to the station at her end in order to catch the train required. Someone can give her a lift later to the station later in the morning, so she'll be arriving in Hereford two hours later than planned. She still expects me to pick her up from Hereford. I've told her she'll have to catch the bus from Hereford and she's responded that she has far too much gear to get on a bus. She fancies herself as a bit of a green crusader, always knocking me and my partner for having two vehicles and yet she's totally dependent on drivers to get her around.

In August my 28-year-old nephew and his girlfriend are coming to stay. They hope to go walking in the area and to visit several out-of-the-way places. They live in London and don't drive. It's become clear while we've been making arrangements that if they're to do half of what they've planned, I'll need to ferry them around almost every day. They're my relatives, they're here for a week and I'll do it without grumbling. But they'd have far more freedom and independence if they learned to drive and could hire a car for a week.

It strikes me that driving is one of those life skills that all eligible adults should be capable of, even if they choose not to own a car. AIBU?

I'm sure your new neighbours old neighbours are glad they are moving on!

YABU. Learning to drive is expensive, running a car is expensive and until electric cars are the norm, they are bad for the environment. The fewer cars on the road the better. Some people also don’t like driving and are nervous on the roads. Better that they aren’t out there causing accidents.

YANBU declining to provide lifts. That’s a different kettle of fish altogether. But people should not be judged for not driving if they don’t want to.

None of this is your problem though?
If people cant get to work, cinema etc
Shrug- not my problem!

I can't imagine living in the centre of various cities and not wanting to have access, even occasionally, to glorious countryside. (And I'm someone who lived in Zone 2 for 18 years) I can't imagine never experiencing what it's like to float at midnight under dark skies on a flat sea with the Milky Way overhead, which is something I do most summers but requires a car.

I can't imagine the limitations of where you can go when visiting the US or New Zealand or Australia (all places I've driven). Many of the memories that I'll cherish for ever involve driving. Taking a side turning in New Zealand and finding a near-deserted settlement with a glorious, driftwood-strewn beach and a blue lagoon and sitting in the sun enjoying the total peace and serenity of the place. Taking a side-road in France and finding ourselves driving under ancient trees and, at the end, a medieval village and a wonderful lunch. Going to visit friends in the mountains in Southern Spain, where there's no public transport at all, and not feeling as if I was a burden on them. Taking a detour through the Brecon Beacons and stumbling on an historic Tudor house open to the public with the most magnificent views. I can't thank my dear departed mum enough for booking my first driving lesson on my 17th birthday.

If people don't* want *to drive, they shouldn't. They'd be a risk on the roads if they get too anxious or whatever. However, they should also consider that in how they live their lives. That includes being aware of local public transport links. When we were moving house 3 years ago, that was one of the considerations for our kids, who were old enough to be independent but hadn't passed driving tests. YANBU to resent people just expecting lifts.

YABU because we could all do with driving less and being better at sharing cars/lifts and accommodating others rather than just pleasing ourselves. The planet needs more cooperation not more cars on the road. And bad and nervous drivers would be an additional liability.
That said you seem to have a number of CFs in your life. Your friend should be ensuring she reaches the train station at the correct time via taxi not asking you to wait. Your neighbours-to-be…well they are just weird expecting neighbours anywhere to ferry them around. Your DN should be making plans to visit attractions by public transport, bikes or taxi.
But your attitude should be aimed at the CFer attitudes not the general population’s ability or willingness to drive.

To Linda Ellen - tell him he’s driving or taxiing if it’s too far to walk. That’s what I would have told DS1 - but he couldn’t wait to drive.

YANBU. I don't drive. Partner does not drive. We'd be a hypocrites if we took lifts from car drivers. I know what you mean about the type who "fancies herself as a bit of a green crusader". If anyone wants to go deep green then they have to walk the walk (sometimes quite literally) not just talk the talk. We live in London, and even though there is efficient public transport it's still polluting, so we will often walk or cycle the 10 miles from our suburb into central London to meet up with friends or visit a gallery or museum. Can't cycle when we are going to have alcohol. Sometimes we are lazy or can't make time and get the bus or train.

I was a late driver. I didn’t expect lifts but I do hate people who let you get the bus when they are literally passing your street.
I don’t mind giving lifts, I think more people should share rides more than taking multiple cars.

There was a mum at primary who was very attached to my friend who drove her all over. She shopped almost every day so this mum would tag along and thought it was great. If she wanted to go to Home Bargains etc friend would always be up for it etc. however, friend moved away and she thought that I would take over.
I had to be very clear that I went shopping once a week, to one supermarket and I went EARLY. She tried to piss me about regarding children and taking them places so I just stepped back. It’s not that I have a car but it’s my time I don’t want to use.

new neighbours should have moved somewhere with good transport. I’d be prepared to be very busy when they move in and always going in the wrong direction to them or picking 3 people up so there’s no room.

I learnt to drive as soon as I was old enough. I can't imagine not driving.

Your new neighbours sound batsh*t crazy and your nephew is a CF....

I hate driving. I don’t think I’m particularly good at it either. Especially parking. However I do drive because I need to get me and me kids about. I don’t expect lifts off people and live in a area where I can get away without having to drive every time I leave the house. But when a uni mate suggested meeting up somewhere which was a two hour drive for me in an unfamiliar area, I told them I couldn’t get there and suggested somewhere I could get to by train. That might have been frustrating for her but the reality is I would find that too stressful. I see driving as a necessary evil that I just have to suck up.

Your prospective neighbours sound slightly bonkers. If they are buying a house with no easy access to public transport on the assumption that their neighbours will give them lifts, they do need to be disabused of that idea as soon as possible.

People who complain about taxis being expensive annoy me. You know what is also expensive? Running a car.

Between my insurance, vehicle tax, street parking permit, MOT and service and RAC membership, it costs me about £20 a week just to have my car sit outside my house and not go anywhere. Then you have to add petrol on too. That doesn’t include the cost of buying the car in the first place.

OK so say £25 for a taxi might seem expensive to get home from a night out, but they aren’t paying all the other costs week that their friend who is giving them a lift is paying.

When I first passed my test I worked out it was cheaper for me to get a taxi 5 nights a week back from town centre to my home rather than buy and run a cheap car. Do I didn’t buy one, and paid for taxis when I needed to.

I only bought a car when I got a job that was 40 mins away by car and 1h40 by train (and I tried the train route for a year before getting the car).

Op it is definitely a red flag from the new neighbours.

How anybody would have the cheek to hint at a lift, never mind borrowing the 5tools. I would be very busy next time I see them.

I am also tired of giving people lifts, using my petrol and my time so I have started to say no.

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable to a certain extent.

It does sound like you are in suburbia with poor transport links. For most of the population they could manage without a car for the majority of the time, the only reason for having one being convenience.

On the neighbours, avoid like the plague - say you’re very busy, and cannot afford time nor extra petrol money to ferry them around. If they have chosen to move to the sticks with no mode of transport it is their problem! Also don’t invite random strangers in needless to say.

For friend - I’m sorry but get a taxi to the station for the earlier train, or be prepared to get the bus at the other end. You have made plans and paid for tickets, her poor planning is her issue.

As for the nephew this is pretty reasonable, they’ve come to stay with you, you are hosting, they’re young, live in an urban centre and don’t own a car. It’s a short term favour. If you don’t want to host, don’t invite.

I would say we will be going to fewer cars and not more, with better transport links, partly as electric will be prohibitively expensive to many, so it’s going to become less of a big deal to drive.

There are plenty of none drivers who don’t expect lifts. 1/2 mile to the bus stop is perfectly so able, as is two adults taking a couple of garden tools on the bus. I think your problem is inability to assert yourself. Why on Earth did you feel the need to show 2 strangers your diary to prove that you were busy? Did you actually do that?

This is me. Not everyone should drive and I’ve done the world a favour by getting off the road. I don’t like the generalisation on this thread that being a non driver makes you an annoyance or lacking. There are plenty of very capable people who don’t drive, J K Rowling, Ricky Gervais and Kate Beckinsale to name three. Obviously there are CFs about but not all non drivers are like that.

What the people in your examples have in common - it’s not being unable to drive - it’s not being worried about putting other people out. And they have the cheek to ask/ demand. And maybe those kinds of people are less likely to bother to learn to drive.

I imagine that J K Rowling, Ricky Gervais and Kate Beckinsale could probably afford the odd taxi or two.

FFS, tell her to get the bloody bus to the festival. There's a special bus running, and she won't be the only one with a lot of equipment with her. How much can she be taking if she can get on a train with it?
Once you've parked you won't want to lose your spot, and that's without taking into account the 42 mile round trip to/from Hereford.

I don't drive (my anxiety is stopping me, that and not bring able to afford it) but I organise myself so I don't need to, I only ask for lifts from family in emergencies really. Those people you describe are CFs

until electric cars are the norm, they are bad for the environment

I'm very far from being anti-car, but if we want to go down that road, just producing them is bad for the environment - recyclables or not, all that plastic and alloy doesn't make itself

Except for those living in major cities (and sometimes even there) public transport can be a sick joke though. "Get the bus" they say, "Take the train" they cry, and I really, really would if only routes weren't being scrapped at a rate of knots

Have you tried auto?

OP, why did you need to show them your diary? I would’ve just said no.

I do think if you won't drive, you need to cycle. You can't have it both ways unless you live somewhere with efficient and plentiful public transport and pavements for walking!

It is also not very sensible to move to somewhere without a railway station if you can't or won't drive.

I didn’t drive for a very long time and I was always so so careful not to ask for lifts. I would accept them if they were offered and I knew it wouldn’t put the driver out too much but otherwise I was always perfectly happy getting public transport, Ubers and taxis everywhere. I even used to, very occasionally, get mildly annoyed with friends who insisted on driving everywhere even when it would be cheaper and more convenient to get a train somewhere. Now I do drive and I really enjoy the freedom and being able to offer people lifts but would never commit to regularly giving neighbours lifts, that’s just cheeky!

So I don’t agree with you that driving is an essential life skill that all adults should do, but those who choose not to (especially without the mitigating circumstances you’ve outlined) need to structure their lives appropriately so that they can go about their days without having to rely on favours from others.

The absolute worst are the people who sanctimoniously claim they don’t drive for environmental reasons but are happy to be ferried everywhere. My friend’s husband pretends to be a great eco-warrior and cites this as his reason for never learning to drive but is more than happy to let his wife drive him everywhere in a big SUV 🙄