To Say Well Done Suella Braverman.

[AnonIsUsuallyAWoman]

Of course I'm not and I'm going to applaud her. Well Done and Thank You! Brava!

Braverman isn't just a little bit right wing. She's consistently voted against equality for gay people and women. She voted against gay marriage.

But she's your poster girl now. People on this thread are outright celebrating her and saying "thank God for suella".

You're like turkeys celebrating Christmas. She doesn't give a shiny shit about you any more than she does gender non conforming children.

You sounds like a wonderful parent. I can certainly empathize with a girl looking at all the problems in the world that females face and wanting to identify out of that and feeling like it's too big to change by themselves.

Ironically suella could absolutely do something about changing some of those things but she actively votes against it.

She is horrible and it's a really scary sign of what the world is coming to. It's based on complete misinformation, there are trans pupils in the school I teach and I have never heard of a person assigned male at birth sharing facilities with people assigned female at birth.

No i would not vote bnp if they promised to remove the GRA. Or ukip. It probably is their poilcy, to be fair, I've never read their manifestos.

While I thought the article was clumsily phrased, particularly the use of the word “pandering” for children who are experiencing confusion and /or distress, this is NOTHING like Section 28.
The current situation is bordering on active conversion therapy, whereby gender non conforming children are cemented into a trans identity. If children are supported via watchful waiting*, then >80% will grow up to not identify as trans and the majority will be gay or lesbian.

(*for me, this would mean acceptance of gender non conforming presentation, but a consistent and clear rejection of the idea that it is possible (or desirable)for a human being to change sex. )

Suella Braverman is prepared to be in a government by a man who has no respect for women and should have faced criminal charges for some of the things he has done.

The broken clock analogy is a fair one.

Most schools at least decent ones, have an awareness that bullying happens and have zero tolerance no matter what the "reason" the bullies give.
For what it is worth in my long experience in secondary schools in London the most common reasons are homophobia and transphobia. Although the sexism many girls are subjected to is a nasty still underaddressed undercurrent.
Schools reflect the values of society. However this might surprise some adults, the majority of young people currently in school are pretty left wing. In our last mock general election the vote split between Labour and green. With a few charming mavericks writing SNP onto their ballot papers. We are a London school.

@pointythings Transphobia is NOT popular right now, it is Femphobia that is popular and all the rage right now. Transgender are the MOST POPULAR and most POWERFUL group there is. Even more powerful than men.

This mangling of language is concerning.

Schools do lose their shit over uniform, for some reason - it wouldn't kill them to just let kids wear the version they feel most comfortable with.

Or maybe it does kids good to learn boundaries and that sometimes you do have to conform to an extent, rather than being told that their personal preferences are more important.

And I find the argument that “kids have been through Covid so cut them some slack” a bizarre one, as if getting what they want is some sort of consolation prize. Surely boundaries would give a greater sense of security and comfort than being able to behave how they please.

@Jott What about your femphobia?

If children are caught in the crossfire, didn't it ever occur to you that it is a direct result of the Mens Rights Activists/Trans Activists who actually working to deliberately remove all the safe spaces women have?

Maybe blame the PERPETRATORS, not the victims (women). What you're doing is gaslighting women and victimising women all over again. That children are caught up in MRAs/TRAs methodical and deliberate act to remove all our safe spaces, our facilities, our sports teams, our RAPE CRISIS CENTRES! That is ALL the fault of MRAs/TRAs. Don't you even dare blame that on women!

And comparing the treatment of gays (who weren't seeking to victimise women and take anything away from anyone) to trans is emotionally manipulative and absolutely dishonest and absurd. They are nothing alike. @Jott

I don’t agree on uniforms, pronouns issue is complex and needs consideration, generally we’re seeing women’s rights being revisited and I hope safe spaces and sports are kept and the school situation is looked at carefully.

I don’t have enough info to back the words by Braverman but I am pleased girls are now on the agenda in terms of balancing how to move forward.

I think it's focusing on red herrings really. Who cares what uniform a child wears, who really cares about pronouns as long as a teacher isn't forced to use them? By enforcing uniform for the sex that the child is, they're reinforcing the idea that clothes = sex. A boy could wear a schooldress and call himself Evie and still be a boy - that is the more valid gender critical point.
What needs protecting is a teacher being allowed to disagree with gender ideology and phrase all references to such as 'some people believe'. And the times when sexed bodies really matter ie. in school toilets, changing rooms and sports.

I think that after having taken a dump in the hallway Jott left the building and won't be seen again.

I'd say that's more to do with how girls and women are treated by society and the idea that it would be better to be a boy and benefit from male privilege rather than being a girl and subject to it.

I wonder why that is? MRAs and TRAs are saying girls and women don't deserve safe spaces, we don't deserve dignity or privacy, that what a male-bodied person wants, they get.

And YOU SUPPORT THIS! You enable this! @Jott

@MrsWooster The current situation is bordering on active conversion therapy, whereby gender non conforming children are cemented into a trans identity. If children are supported via watchful waiting, then >80% will grow up to not identify as trans and the majority will be gay or lesbian.*

Really well put.

I’m cynical about mediocre politicians jumping clumsily into the trans debate in the hope of bolstering up their flagging popularity.

I’m glad that the grip of Gender Identity politics on school children is being addressed, but I’m dubious that Suella Braverman really cares about it. She saw it working for Liz Truss, I suspect.

I wish TRAs would stop the daft comparisons to Section 28! I think it’s so disrespectful to appropriate the struggle for gay rights. If the TRA claims weren’t so weak, they’d stand by themselves.

Quite apart from the unanswerable safeguarding and preservation of single sex spaces issue, most secondary schools have over a thousand pupils. How the hell can a teacher remember a thousand permutations of pronouns from fae to ze, along with the children’s names? Let alone the “fluid” ones who change daily? The whole thing is a ridiculous indulgence.

The problem with accepting pronouns is that it's the first step to allowing males into female spaces. They will think, ok, you accept me as a she, so why can't I go to the female toilets?

It's the old give an inch, take a mile. As we can see, dehumanising language around women (menstruators, uterus-havers', bleeders, etc) is the first step to changing the narrative. That lead to enforcing pronouns. Pronouns are basically redundant anyway, you don't say "hello she, how are you?" Pronouns are rarely needed, it's a status contagion. Then, from pronouns we had 'I have the right to use the changing facility that matches my pronouns.

It's a slippery slope. And using female pronouns for a question male, but not allowing them to go to the female toilets will only confuse them.

It's far easier to have a uniform blanket just say no to it all approach. You can't allow pronouns and not allow bathrooms.

Though admittedly I have no problems with them wearing girls uniforms. But, I guess the AG sees it as 'one in all in' so it has to be 'no in' approach.

I don't see why kids can't just be kids and be questioning or whatever at home.

@Badqueen You are missing the point. Pronouns lead to using the facilities that match your pronouns. It leads to it. Which is why it has to be nipped in the bud. There can be no other way. TRAs have shown they want all or nothing. You cannot acknowledge pronouns but say 'oh sorry, you're really a male even though I use she/her for you, so you have to use to male toilets'.

It doesn't work that way. You can't let anything in or allow anything. Because pronouns, as we now know, leads to them infiltrating womens spaces. So there is absolutely no other option but to say no to it all.

I can't be bothered to explain yet again but you're the one who has missed the point. These vulnerable children aren't the ones in charge of making decisions about who goes into which prison. You can argue against that, without being bloody minded about children wanting to change their name at school, and the school respecting that.

Regardless of whether people on Mumsnet think people should be allowed to identify as a different gender, they do. So do you a) lecture the child about gender identity/question their reasons/be a dick to that child or do you b) shrug, realise that it's none of your business what gender that child considers themselves and call them the name they wish to be called by?

I'm just really curious how many people faced with a GNC child would actually deliberately call that child a name other than that which that wish to be called because your feelings trump that of the child. Hardly anyone has answered that.

Oh and let's not forget option c) - stand behind the lovely suella, cheering her on, she who voted against rights for gay people and women.

I think uniforms is something that schools can afford to be flexible on. The boundary is that kids wear one - the version they are most comfortable with would be okay with me. Plenty of girls who don't consider themselves as trans would prefer trousers anyway.

But can teachers please not tell kids that sex is assigned rather than observed at birth. This 'assigned' bollocks is creeping into normal usage and it's wrong. Schools can't teach kids science and expect to be taken seriously and respected as educators while still coming out with this shit.

Transphobia is very popular on Mumsnet judging by the amount of transphobic posts and threads I've reported and had removed over the last week.

@Badqueen What is more important is not pandering (sorry, I genuinely paused for a minute and couldn't think of another word) to a CHILD's silly whims. Children need to be disciplined and raised, they shouldn't be the ones dictating the terms. I will call that child their name on their enrollment. If that 'distresses' them, then there is something much, much bigger going on. Adults call the shots. Not children.