Permanent exclusion-how do I find a new school that will take an excluded child?

[Alwaystoblame]

Posting for traffic.
How do I go about finding my Dd a new school if she's been permanently excluded? How likely are good schools to take her on in year 10 with an appalling attendance and behaviour record? She's very bright and doing very well academically when are bothers to go to class and do the homework. Attendance in in the 60s for this year. Even when she dies go in she is late and/or truants classes.
I have 2 previous threads about the issues she's having but I wanted to ask specifically about new schools without getting detailed.

I 2nd this. If she wants to buckle down and achieve something, she can do well in a PRU. Ours is great.

Hi op it sounds like because you and her father are singing off totally different hymm sheets your daughter is very aware of this and she sounds like she is using this to manipulate situations and whilst her father is pandering to her the situation is not going to get any better. When she comes with her hand out or slagging her father off I would be telling her she's made her choice now deal with it because it truly does sound like she's playing you both off against one another and long term that is not good. Let the father and daughter crack on tell them your not having a part in it now, if you write a list of rules and stuck by them you may start getting somewhere with her.

Before they make the decision to permanently exclude her, could you discuss with pastoral/slt the possibility of alternative provision for her?

I worked with a child who was permanently excluded around 6 months ago and as he was still on the schools register, they had a duty of care to find him a new provision. The child’s behaviour and attendance was abysmal and a few schools turned them down and have only this week been offered a place at school. The belief that she will just walk into a new school will be shattered very soon…….

aww, OP, im so sorry youre going through this. Sending you lots of patience and strength.
At this point, I think you should step back. You cannot actually do anything right now. I think once your ex realises all the admin and fighting he will need to do on her behalf, he will be wishing it was you doing it, and if both of them dont get the reaction from you, then it will lose its power for them.
You cant organise a school for her, because the LEA need to organise her education, and if he refuses to engage with that, then he will need to prove he is educating her adequately at home.
Ultimately, if she doesnt get her exams now, then she will just have to take the scenic route to getting her qualifications, or get a job/apprenticeship at 16 and get her maths and english then. You dont have to rush it. There is nothing to say she needs to get them all at the normal time, and lots of people are dickheads at this age and hate school and their parents and everything, but they do grow up and live normal lives too. Lots of kids are much happier earning money than being at school and college.

It seems as if excuses are being made for your daughter by her father, and that the daughter is very adept at manipulation, and throwing strops {With added violence} to get her own way.
Sadly this can only end badly unless the daughter herself wants to change.

At a school there was a ''Troubled'' child, who used flouncing and aggression in equal measure, and surprise surprise, the woman she had grown into was in the local papers for incidents I won't go into in case it is identifying.

Still hadn't changed the stinking attitude.

Bullying by this child as a teenager involved police. It involves police as an adult.

My sympathy lies entirely with the victims of these teenagers, These manipulative flouncy madams like to play the ''Victim'' themselves when it suits, will cry and be all contrite, but they bounce back to show their true colours.

Maybe there are inherited character traits from the parent/s , but these teenagers cause so much disruption and misery in their wake, that one can hardly blame the school and other pupils for being mightily relieved when the ''Problem'' has been excluded. Being a truant and disruptive is one thing.

Using threats and violence and bullying is entirely another.

There are also many children from fractured homes whose parents go on to have other children.. but they don't turn into violent bullies.

Discipline and boundaries really help long before a child gets to teenage years.

This teenager will be an adult soon, no one will want to employ her, or teach her unless she changes her attitude.

I'm another one who can't believe she ''Loves school'' so much to miss large chunks of it.

I hope for her future victim's sakes that she wakes up and takes responsibility for her actions.

Bullying with violence is absolutely shameful.

I think for the moment you need to step back and regain tyour strength. She has blocked you, and her dad seems to think he is going to make another school take her, so let him find out the truth. He (and she by default) has cast you as the problem and the idiot who knows nothing, so dont waste your breath telling him anything - let him take the flack for once, let him do the parenting.

This sounds like my DD - although she wasnt violent and, thank god, never left to live with her father. But her school refusal in year 7 and 8, and subsequent referral to a small unit (not a PRU but similar) where she locked herself in the toilets and threw herself down stairs to avoid it, led to a diagnosis of ASD and PDA (at the Elizabeth Newson Centre, by Phil Christie who pretty much was the expert back then)

This led to the rest of the family being diagnosed. I have ASD/ADHD and PDA.

I found alot of support via FB groups for teens with PDA. Im not saying its a definate, but with your own diagnosis and the hereditary element.

with us, DD was home schooled. or rather unschooled. She was a little younger and then she had time to settle, but never went back to secondary - she took GCSEs as adult evening classes, then later a couple more at a local FE college, then progressed through college where the attitudes were different. Her anxieties were coming from the school environment - it doesnt sound as if your daughter's are coming from there - it sounds as if they are coming from living with her father. PDA and BPD look very similar. They can cross over. One can become another if not addressed, and each can impact on each other. The initial driving force can be the anxiety driven by the autism, but the trauma of abuse will feed into this and amplify it. risk taking, sex, explosive behaviour, acting out and manipulating as well as they are able, along with lies and rewriting the truth. All these can be present. As well as violence and agression, especially if told no.

It may be that you need to step back. Right back. Its bloody hard, because you love them, and ultimately however awful and destructive the behaviour, it most likely is coming from a place of fear and hurt. But often, as mum, you are the easist to lash out at, and the easiest to dismiss - she needs professional help to untangle this, and with luck the PRU will make this happen. If you are not there to try to fix it and pick up the pieces then she, her father, and the professionals will have to. Hard as it is, You need to be firm in your love (when she inevitably comes back) but also firm in bouncing the solution back to her and dad.

I'm just catching up as we've been out. I really do appreciate all the replies, even the harsh ones . I'd feel the same if there was a child like mine at my child's school, if that makes sense.
It's very hard to step away. I've done it before and I get told I've rejected her. I always ensure any backing away is preceded by a message to tell her I love her and will always be there for her but that I won't be abused or allow her to abuse others. However hard it is I am going to step right back and take the advice given here. I've told her dad to let me know what school he sorts for her if he manages to do that in the next week. It's half term here so I doubt very much he'll be able to get very far with anything. The official decision from school is due after half term and I think there will be a meeting asap. I will attend that. Then there's a meeting with the local authority but I've no idea how quickly that will be scheduled. I'll be there for the meetings as otherwise I won't get to know what's going on but I'm leaving all the admin and parenting to her dad. He's shit at admin. Totally useless. Couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. But that's his problem. I'm not rescuing him. They both want me out of her life so I'm going to grit my teeth and let them get on with it.
I feel so ashamed that my daughter has turned out like this but I know I've done everything I can to provide her with a loving, stable home and guidance into becoming a responsible adult. I have to believe she will get there eventually but posters are right to say she needs a damn good wake up call. So does her dad.
To those suggesting home schooling-lockdown was a total nightmare for her. She really missed school and found it very difficult to motivate herself. At the time she was refusing to see her dad and I wasn't a key worker so she was at home with me supervising her work. We had done really fun times and did a lot together but she tells people I personally kept her prisoner for 9 months 🙄 When she went off to her dad's he and his then gf were key workers so she had a place at school. There is no way he would give up work to home school her. He doesn't have the organisational skills to do it and has 2 other dc plus his ex's dc that he takes to sports clubs each week. He's not present very much at all even when he isn't working and isn't able to prioritise dd's needs.

This is very hard for you with your daughter in crisis.
I've read the thread but am unclear whether she has actually been excluded and you've had the appropriate letter/hearing etc. or whether the school is taking about possibly doing so. Even is she's living with your ex I assume you are a priority contact for all school communications?

She’s probably going to have to bottom out to find her motivation and it might actually be easier for you to beat if you’re not too closely involved, since that’s what she says she wants anyway. The drama of playing you off against her dad is also probably quite addictive, so if you step away, that’s another distraction off the table.

There is hope, especially since she’s bright.

Why is your child’s attendance so low?
is there an issue with the school they were at?
When children are excluded they normally go to a PRU, managed moves are usually pre permanent exclusion.
The LEA should help you, but they will have a list of student to send to schools, most schools will try and fill with normal start of year admissions rather that take in year admissions student who have been excluded.

Her attendance is so low because she says she is ill or she just can't be bothered to go in. This always happens on the days her dad is working. He goes to work telling her to get up and she decides to go back to sleep then spends the day making tiktok videos or gaming. If she does get dropped off at school by her dad she then truants within the school grounds or skips some lessons. When she lived here she got up no problem, had breakfast, had clean uniform, had done her homework and went to school on time and got on with the day and came home happy telling me about her lessons. Since she has lived with her dad she has gone off the rails. I did not want her to live with her dad at all because he had spent the preceding years alienating her from me and I knew it would only get worse. He tries it with dd2 but she's having none of it. Dd2 hates school because she finds the social interactions extremely difficult and she is bullied. But she knows she needs to go to school to get the grades she needs to get into medical school. She's very dedicated to her education despite hating it. Dd2 would like to be invisible. Dd1 thrives on the drama and attention she gets at school.

So what precipitated her moving in with her Dad?

@Johnnysgirl being told no and not getting her own way.

Well I guess she'll be hearing "No," a bit more in the next few weeks when the schools she chooses refuse to take her on account of her appalling record.

Aye, she will. It won't be pretty.

I'd sent her the links to the PRUs nearby and she laughed and said no way was she going to either of them. After reading everything here I truly believe that a PRU is the best place for her as it will give her the support she needs to get back on track and any assessments can be done. It will give her the wake up call she needs. She has had a pretty privileged life and yet thinks she's hard done to.

Well I think a brush with the authorities will be her next experience and the wake up call she needs. If she doesn't plsort herself, she might end up in a correctional centre/juvenile detention. It sounds like she doesn't understand that she's in the last chance saloon.

I think you've done everything you can OP and tried your hardest in a very difficult situation.

At this point I think you can to step back and let your daughter and ex sort out the situation they have both created. How else is your daughter going to truly understand that her actions have consequences. She's ignored that for too long so now properly experiencing that is frankly the only hope of her pulling herself together.

I know it's going to be painful for you to watch but I don't think you continuing to try and put it right is going to help. You aren't going to get her into a good school again and if you try they'll just direct their stupid blame at you for you not being able to achieve an impossible solution. They need to go through this process themselves.

Tell them you've tried to help and advise but it's clear they don't want your help so you will be taking a step back and leaving future education arrangements to your ex and daughter.

You can be there in the future if your daughter pulls herself together but not until she's willing to behave and try to do her best. GCSEs can be taken again in the future if needed. It's more complicated and expensive but this isn't a one off chance. She can still have a decent future but the phrase "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink " applies here and there's no need for you to continue to go through the anguish of trying.

Sorry, but she really isn't as bright as you claim.

Speaking as a teacher, permanent exclusion really is the very last of last resorts. The school will have tried everything in their arsenal before getting to this point. And it'll be for a LOT more reasons than just poor attendance.

At this point in her education, the likelihood of her getting a place in a mainstream school is, I'd say, pretty close to zero. The local schools AND the LA, will be of the view that if she hasn't learnt to manage herself in mainstream by the age of 15, then she's not going to suddenly learn it now.

All she'll be offered is a PRU at this point. I haven't read your previous threads OP, so I don't know the backstory, but your LA will just shrug and say "you reap what you sow and had your chances" when it comes to a 15 year old.
Your DD and your DH are in for a rude awakening I'm afraid.

Private schools are businesses, with paying customers. The OP's daughter is unlikely to be offered a place, as soon as the school get to know about her previous behaviour. They won't want to risk parents removing their own children.

OP most of the advice on this thread is complete rubbish. Basically, leave it to the borough at this point. The guidance is really clear and is on the government website for you to read. She is entitled to an education and mainstream schools will have to take her. They're not allowed to refuse her for poor attendance or behaviour (unless she's been permanently excluded twice). They do have to listen to you, but aren't obliged to take on board your views- for really good reasons. I can't stress this enough. They know the mix of other permanently excluded children, but can't tell you. They will try to put her in the most appropriate school, factoring in their other difficult students. You won't be a party to this information. They will have her best interests at heart, and I've seen some really positive moves which have been genuinely beneficial following a permanent exclusion. They will not want to risk the enormous hassle and cost of it happening a second time.

The borough will sort it. They have to.

Don't rule out a PRU. They are usually really positive. Again, I've only ever seen students benefitting- but they're really expensive so they'll probably try mainstream first.

Take a step back. You're not washing your hands of her, neither can you sort this for her. Let her feel the consequences of her actions. If she is upset by these then you can offer comfort and support without implying they were undeserved.

@Curioushorse

Not if all local schools are full for year 10? Or if they want to do a managed transfer with another kid… which never works out

@OnceuponaRainbow18 no not if the schools are full.

.....but it's definitely worth OP looking at the actual guidance rather than reading loads of advice on the internet which, however well-meaning, is incorrect.