Permanent exclusion-how do I find a new school that will take an excluded child?

[Alwaystoblame]

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How do I go about finding my Dd a new school if she's been permanently excluded? How likely are good schools to take her on in year 10 with an appalling attendance and behaviour record? She's very bright and doing very well academically when are bothers to go to class and do the homework. Attendance in in the 60s for this year. Even when she dies go in she is late and/or truants classes.
I have 2 previous threads about the issues she's having but I wanted to ask specifically about new schools without getting detailed.

You are doing really well, @Alwaystoblame to not jump in and try to fix it all.

Stay strong.

I think they are eager to keep her in school. She's academically very capable and will probably do ok even with her shite attendance. She just won't do as well as she's capable of. If she attends 95% as a minimum she'd be able to get As and Bs if she puts the work in. Otherwise she'll get Cs. That will disappoint her and limit her future options. If by half term she hasn't improved her attendance and behaviour I'll step in and ask about alternative provision for her. School just don't seem able to identify and offer the kind of support she needs. Her dad is far too lenient then will totally lose it with her and she'll run away only to be found by the police a few hours later. She promises to behave better and he attempts to listen and understand and all is good on the surface but nothing changes underneath so the cycle repeats. She is very lost and unhappy and it all goes back to when her dad left the family home.

I think it's time to step back and let her deal with the mess she created, so she has to deal with the consequences of her actions and clean up her own mess.

The UK is good for lifelong education, you can go back to college and uni at any age, so she can do that sometime when she's ready to put the work in and sort out her behaviour. She can forget about the FBI and other such fantasies with her record and rightly so.

She just has constant help from you (& you are an amazing mother - and she is so lucky to have you) but it seems as if she likes to weaponize 'wasting' the help you give her by messing up at school to spite you, herself, etc, throwing it back in your face over and over and over. It's happening repeatedly and it never works. She needs to learn to deal with the mess she's created without anyone else now bailing her out.

School just don't seem able to identify and offer the kind of support she needs.

This is why an EHCNA needs requesting. Have you requested one?

I have suggested an EHCP but her support worker that she now has has said she needs to be in school for one to be done. The same goes for any ND assessments. Her attendance is down to 50% and she's not doing her homework. She's got a detention tomorrow for disrespecting the HT late on Friday. That's a good start to the week 🙄

She says I'm not supportive so I don't talk to her anymore about school. I just keep an eye on the school apps to know what's going on and receive emails from school. I think they'll be glad to see the back of her after her GCSE's. It would surprise me if she cheats at those by having things written down and/or using her phone. I'll have no sympathy for her messing up her school life. She's getting lots of support although I'm not sure it's the right kind of support but they can't work out what will work as she's never in for any significant amount of time. She's done 2 fulls days since she started back there. Not consecutive days either. This is the worst she has ever been.

I have suggested an EHCP but her support worker that she now has has said she needs to be in school for one to be done.

This is incorrect. You can apply for one yourself.

The same goes for any ND assessments.

This isn’t correct either.


She's getting lots of support although I'm not sure it's the right kind of support but they can't work out what will work as she's never in for any significant amount of time.

This is why an EHCNA is needed.

How can she be assessed if she's not going to school and doesn't engage with any professionals? How can I apply for one when she's not here with me?

How can I apply for one when she's not here with me?

You don’t need DD to be with you. Who has told you that? You can request one using the model letter on IPSEA’s website.

How can she be assessed if she's not going to school and doesn't engage with any professionals?

Children and young people up and down the country go through EHCNAs when they aren’t in school. Why do you think she needs to be attending full time in order to apply? If DD can’t engage with professionals using their normal techniques and assessments the professionals need to change how they assess her so she can engage. You would be surprised what a good EP, SALT, OT, psychiatrist, clinical psychologist can pick up even when DC can’t engage, and the fact they struggle to engage demonstrates in itself there are unmet needs and they need SEP.

DD needs assessments and appropriate support and provision, by not applying for an EHCNA she isn’t going to receive the support she clearly requires. One should have been requested way before now.

The professionals involved are who are telling me these things. I'll get onto it asap.

Professionals often don’t give parents the correct information and LAs and schools often act unlawfully. You need to check what should be happening and the law yourself using information such as IPSEA, SOSSEN and reading the SENCOP. Then advocate for DD and enforce her rights.

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread. Just wanted to reach out and say hope you get sorted. My son was a nightmare in year 10 and 11. He fell in with the wrong crowd, attendance was very low, I was getting at least 4 x calls a day from the school with various things he was doing / had done. I was exasperated.

He scraped through some GCSE's somehow and got into college after a bad asthma attack made him realise what he had been doing, he ditched the bad friends and turned his life around. He's now on his way to being an electrician.

It's really tough but all you can do is be there and try to support as best you can x

I think the EHCP was dismissed due to timescales. She's in year 11 and I'm told it will take 6 months or so. I will raise it again though and seek one myself. I need to do one for autistic dd2 as well.
So far this week she's been an hour late to school yesterday and told school some alarming lies about her dad. Then late again today. Two detentions so far.
She has an emergency camhs appointment tomorrow at my request due to the escalation in her behaviour. I can't take her because I have covid so her dad is going. That's best anyway because he's the one on the receiving end of her behaviour at the moment. He's dealing with the full brunt of her behaviour now and is realising that actually it's bloody hard work being her parent when she lives with you full time and that maybe things aren't my fault at all. Not that the narc will ever admit that of course. She's asked a couple of times in the last few days about coming back to live with me. I'd love that but sadly it's not an option. Her dad wants her to come back to me too. Yeah I bet he does! His work is suffering because of having to change his hours, he's making mistakes, he's late, he's very stressed, having to take time off for her appointments and nonsense. He's not got other dc full time at his though so they aren't affected like my dc are by her behaviour. They suffer enough on the days they do see her. My two are more settled without her here although we all miss her. She needs to get better before she could come back. Even short visits are fraught with danger and everyone is walking on eggshells.
Sorry just venting. I really appreciate the support and knowledge and experience of your posts, thank you.

The fact that she's in Year 11 is irrelevant - an EHCP can be in place potentially up to the sge of 25, and she has to be in education or training up to 18 anyway.

If you don’t have to appeal, which I appreciate many do, the process takes 20 weeks. Being Y11 isn’t a barrier, as Novum posted, EHCPs can last until 25, or 26 in some circumstances. There are other posters on MN whose DC haven’t had an EHCP until post 16.

Absolutely op, please hold firm and don't allow her back. Your other children have been through so much became of her already.
It would be different if staying with ye would help her but it hasn't in the past and it wouldn't again and would only further stress your other children out along with you which impacts them so much.
Keep going as you are , love and support buy from a distance.

There's no way she can come back. I've been ill for the last 2 weeks and she has upped the ante. She has her mock gcse exams this week and so far has missed all of them despite being taken to school. She decides not to bother and gets the bus back home. Her dad is really struggling with her now. He's finally realising what it's like to be her parent and he's not enjoying it.

Good. It will be interesting to see how he deals with her after failing to back you up all this time.

Good. Frankly, it's about time he realised how he's made it harder for your and his own daughter by his own refusal to actually parent properly and back you when she was behaving badly instead of her.

i'd tell him this, too, when he tries to get you to let her come back to your home. Tell him there's zero chance of that happening right now. He's helped create the problem, he needs to be the one to be sorting it. Clearly his turn.

What will become of her if she chooses to carry on like this?
A child at school was clearly “ disturbed and unhappy “ and I googled her name, and shes Still causing havoc, but as an adult, where police are unsympathetic to her threats and aggression, putting others at risk by her selfish behaviour.

It’s a choice.

Why behave badly , when it just leads to endless aggro?
I do wonder if it’s a form of sustained attention seeking?
Very exhausting to be around.

It's definitely a choice. She has so much support round her but her every action is a big fuck you then she says nobody is helping her.
He's not dealing with it well at all. Puts things in place but doesn't follow through. There's no consistency or boundaries so she has nothing solid to rely on with him. But this is their choice. They wanted this. So on with it they must get.

I do sympathise.
The “ Problem” girl at school was given too loose a rein by absent dad.
Lots of children are devastated when a parent leaves ( Abandons) but people lose patience after a while.
When adolescence creeps into adulthood, it just becomes a different ball game, and police aren’t as lax as a parent might be- And nor are members of public who are threatened by aggression.
If a child doesn’t do their homework-Or exams
it hurts no one in the end but the child.

The sooner they come to the realisation that actions ( or inactions) have consequences, the better it is for them.

The dad has to step up!

Tough love is called for ( Not a popular view) but I have seen it work .

Best of Luck, Op

Absolutely heartbreaking for you and your children. Your approach is right, though must be so hard for you to continue with. God knows how you manage to relax, if you do, in case another email pings in or you get a phone call. Look to the future, when she has grown up more, has accepted help, has turned things around. She has the brain to do well, when she chooses to. I wonder if, like an alcoholic, she has to fall to the bottomnest of rock bottoms before things can change. She's been rejected by alternative schools, her dad is now realising that you are not the bad parent causing the problems. What's she got left? She's controlling things by refusing to attend, but it's not achieving what she wants, if she even knows what this is. It is a terrible time for you, but you are being strong and loving to your kids. More power to you mama.

It’s true that an EHCP can be started even if the child is not in school, although it could be more difficult to arrange the necessary assessments. Perhaps the question is, what would need to be in the provision of a plan so that OP’s daughter would benefit from it?

Perhaps the question is, what would need to be in the provision of a plan so that OP’s daughter would benefit from it?

That’s what the EHCNA is for, to assess what SEP is required.

Well here we are again waiting for the will they/won't they decision about permanent exclusion. She got into a 'minor' fight with a pupil in a younger year group on Friday. Bearing in mind she was told she'd be out of there was any violence or aggression then I expect this to be it. Of course the other kid started it and it was self defence 🙄 Of course her dad believes her version of events. Of course there's been no consequence for this and she's out all weekend with friends. Her attendance is at an all time low, her GCSE grade predictions have dropped by two grades and age only turned up to half of her mocks. I don't know the results of those yet but they will be interesting.
I have raised the possibility of a PRU again and her support worker is looking into this. She's capable of top grades but essentially doesn't give a shit.
She wants to go to one of the best colleges in the area but she's not even gone to any of their open evenings. She's not been to any anywhere for that matter. She's not done the support homework for college applications. She's not done any homework at all.
I am still struggling so much with the fuck you all attitude girl to the girl who came round today and brought me flowers and had a lovely dinner with us. The girl who was loving and kind to her little brother and wanted lots of hugs and was a pleasure to be with. It's a total head fuck for me. I think I'll see about therapy because this is going on for so long and it's exhausting.
She's hoping to come on holiday with us but I've said no and I'm standing firm on that one. She also wants to come for Christmas. That one will be harder to say no to.
I'm constantly on edge wondering what next. I just wish school would do something concrete instead of keep doing the same things that aren't working. I feel helpless.
She needs a more focused and supportive environment where she can get the assessments she needs and hopefully get some help from professionals who know what they are doing. So far it's all too softly softly and she needs more structure and boundaries with clear consequences at home and school. Although that's never going to happen with her dad being as pathetic as he is. No phone then he says but next day he's given it her back. No socialising with xyz then the next day xyz are at his house or he's giving them a lift. 🤯