Every household?????

[Trainfromredhill]

So, the chancellor is going to give every household £400 for heating. Surely there should be a cut off of household income? The Beckhams, Elton John, james Dyson, Harry styles…….they all get the money too? . I say this as someone in the fortunate position of not needing the £400- I’d much rather it went to someone who does need it.Just seems a huge waste of public money to give it to everyone

@venus7

what do you mean by ‘pay most’?

yes, the poorest pay the largest proportion of their incomes as tax - VAT and other taxes on products or services affect them disproportionately.

But, in terms of quantities, higher earners objectively pay more. Far, far more. And it is their taxes that are paying for everything really. Some people genuinely are net contributors to the the public purse. Most people are not.

Arguably, the poorest would be much poorer if it weren’t for the people earning £100k.

Someone on £100k pays £35k in tax and NI. They also pay VAT and other similar taxes - and they pay more of this in absolute terms because they spend more. They may also pay various other taxes.

Proportionally it’s less of their income. But in absolute terms they pay a lot more.

Complexity. It’s a shame it ruins simplistic, highly moralised arguments.

@Cornettoninja

I dont envy or blame them. Its the govts fault absolutely.

not really surprising to come across people punching down in order to elevate themselves and avoid the reality that they’re not doing quite as well as they thought.

yes but they are still financially secure.

We SHOULD feel rich and the fact we’re not is out of our hands

Relatively rich person whining they don't feel rich enough and then saying their lifestyle choices are nothing to do with them is a perfect example of this endless entitlement I see on here.

Of course I choose not to use it and pay double. I’d rather pay for private schooling for example, and let someone who is unable to afford to do so have the place at the local oversubscribed and outstanding state primary near us for example.

You do get something back; the services that taxes pay for. this is the point I was responding to though - I am very happy to pay the higher rate of taxes but don’t necessarily get it back through these services if I don’t use them (which is my choice)

The actual point of debate here though:
that’s a useful list of additional services, but can you explain how lower earners pay more tax towards those than higher earners as commented in the previous post?

If you have an independent food bank nearby could you consider them too, please? We are having to shout more loudly for help at the moment, most people know the Trussell trust name but there are always local, often church based banks. We aren't all religious, there is no evangelising, just housed and supported by a church. So please give us a thought"

@SoggyPaper

Arguably if the wealth was more evenly distributed through fairer wages more people could earn more and there would be less poorer people

Of course I choose not to use it and pay double. I’d rather pay for private schooling for example, and let someone who is unable to afford to do so have the place at the local oversubscribed and outstanding state primary near us for example.

You do get something back; the services that taxes pay for. this is the point I was responding to though - I am very happy to pay the higher rate of taxes but don’t necessarily get it back through these services if I don’t use them (which is my choice)

The actual point of debate here though:
that’s a useful list of additional services, but can you explain how lower earners pay more tax towards those than higher earners as commented in the previous post?

@ReginaGeorgeismyname your missing the fact that to be comfortable on £30k (with no benefit top ups which simply wouldn’t be possible in some parts of the country) your likely living in an area of limited opportunity and the chances are a tiny proportion of the local population earn huge salaries. This also leaves you vulnerable to economic shocks and a poorer chance of recovery.

it’s absolutely possible but not without fairly steep down sides, but people aren’t offering a fantasy experience.

Objectively you are not living off £30k a year and paying 2x £1250 a month for 2 children under 3 in nursery.

Say your £30k gross income is £22k and £8k. That’s about £2200 a month.

You’re not paying for FT nursery for 2 children out of that. If you are paying £2500 on nursery a month, you are not living in £30k a year. You are living off rapidly depleting savings.

Yes. But there would still be taxes and net contributors required to balance out the people who are unable to work.

The point is it’s not simple. And high earners are not the enemy.

It’s not entitlement. I’m well aware our combined income sounds huge. But the reality is we live in a very normal house with a very ordinary car, no holidays, no champagne.

The cost of living crisis affects almost everybody. I’m not saying we’re affected in the same way as someone having to choose between heating and eating but it is fucking depressing to not have any money at the end of the month on our income. We work all the hours under the sun, barely see each other or the kids, and for what?

Our mortgage is massive and we will benefit from that in about twenty years, we are very fortunate to be able to make that choice but the idea that we’re greedy spendthrifts without a care in the world is completely off base. Yeah we could move to a cheaper part of the country but if we all did that it wouldn’t be cheaper anymore, would it? And our jobs and families are here.

The ridiculous bashing of the ‘fabulous’ £100k income lifestyle is quite galling, actually

Oh our hearts BLEED for you! Are the mean poor people managing on a THIRD of your income being horrible to you? Is your position in the TOP 6% of household income a hard place to be?

This is just not nice or helpful.

I say that as someone on 1/3 of that income.

@SoggyPaper

Some higher earners (not 100k) are most definitely the enemy

Looking directly at bo jo and rishi

Wealth inequality is a huge issue. Its gotten much worse in the last decade and will only keep getting worse

I really don't have much sympathy for higher earners

It just doesn't make sense
So these people get this (I'm NOT saying they shouldn't)
I get £400 - single, low wage, no DC. The same as any high earning celeb

Which scenario seems undeserving to you?

I know you said you aren’t saying they shouldn’t. But the structure of the question implies it must be unreasonable that they get it (and you don’t).

@JanetPluchinsky

We work all the hours under the sun, barely see each other or the kids, and for what?

that big mortgage ? The financial security of not choosing between heating and eating? Not living in a slum?

Plenty of people working all the hours and barely seeing each other or there kids and making much less.

No mortgage so insecure housing . Living in not nice areas

It’s not a race to the bottom.

I know we’re not poor. But we’re not rich either.

I'm just a bit - ok I try not to look into other people pots because it doesn't make you happier
But it does seem if you're single with no DC and on a low wage then you tend to get missed (I also am chronically unwell and struggle working 42hrs but not unwell enough to get any help)
Paying a mortgage, energy bills, food etc on £1200-1400pm on one wage isn't the easiest

@JanetPluchinsky

Pointing out other people also work very hard /long hours and don't have the financial security you do is not a race to the bottom

I dont envy or blame them. Its the govts fault absolutely

maybe you don’t personally but this thread is a case in point on how people react to seeing those they would class as ‘comfortable’ telling us that they’re not. And it is envy or blame but thoroughly misplaced.

whilst people deride those on higher salaries complaining about how their households have been affected they’re completely distracted from the point of what that means to them.

There’s no need for bleeding hearts but if a face-value middle class is saying they’ve been knocked down a level that has consequences for everyone below them who’ve also been knocked down further.

basically the lower classes need to budge up on the bench because a whole new bunch of people just joined them and it’s redefining ‘poor’. having access to literally hundreds of thousands of pounds isn’t enough to get you recategorised.

@Topgub how do lower earners pay more tax on this stuff than higher earners?

Struggling because you only have £400 a month left for entertainment, clothing and eating out? I'm fucking speechless. Jesus. Do you realise how insulting that is?

If you don't need the money you can donate it to www.nea.org.uk/ or your local foodbank.