Every household?????

[Trainfromredhill]

So, the chancellor is going to give every household £400 for heating. Surely there should be a cut off of household income? The Beckhams, Elton John, james Dyson, Harry styles…….they all get the money too? . I say this as someone in the fortunate position of not needing the £400- I’d much rather it went to someone who does need it.Just seems a huge waste of public money to give it to everyone

I’m not sure if you’re serious here. Of course it’ll be the high earners paying it back. This government has a higher rate of tax on higher earners than we had under Labour, a higher personal allowance (but no lessons allowance for high earners), and it has removed the tax advantages of being able to fund pensions from higher earners.

How can you possibly suggest that higher earners have been looked after compared to how they were treated under Labour, or relative to lower earners?

If, as you say, you are very high earners, then you are each paying 47% on most of your earnings, have zero personal allowance, and can only put £4,000 into your pensions each year.

People like Sunak will get it 12 times.

Disgraceful.

The admin and resource cost of means testing and administering would be huge.

The money is almost certainly not coming to individual bank accounts as £400 cash; it will go directly to the energy companies who will then apply it to each account. If they means test, the additional admin of linking up eligible recipients to the correct energy accounts would be huge, on top of the admin of means testing in the first place, and it would require a lot of cross-organisational working and resources. It would most likely take a long time and a lot of money to implement a system that worked properly.

Not going to repeat what everyone has said about it costing more to means test (oops- did just repeat it) but to put it another way: everyone could get £400, or the government could fund the cost for it to be means tested and those in need will get £200 once the costs have been taken out. Which is best?

Plus, with means testing there will always be those just at the cut off who struggle but don't seem to on paper.

Yes what will happen to people with a property portfolio, surely they are not going to be given a massive cheque?! Especially as it's likely to be tenants rather than property owners facing steep energy rises?

Exactly. It’s just the same as when Babbage introduced the penny post, having realised that it cost more to calculate the difference in postage costs than was brought in by variable costs.

They could have asked the energy companies to apply a discount to every household account.
Job done.

But just giving people money boosts the economy more.

I’m with you @Trainfromredhill we don’t need ours and I think it’s ridiculous it’s been given to everyone. We will be donating ours.

But that's what is happening.

'Direct debit and credit customers will have the money credited to their account, while customers with pre-payment meters will have the money applied to their meter or paid via a voucher'

The only people getting cash in their accounts are those who are already means tested via benefits, etc.

@Baggyeye our tenants all pay their own energy Bills. I’m assuming it’ll go to the bill payers? If not and we get it, we will give it to our tenants.

They are, aren’t they?

It's going to be paid direct to your energy company. I think energy companies should give everyone the option of donating back and using it to increase the 'warm homes' discount to those who need it.

Currently the warm home discount is based purely on income and very welcome it is to someone on a basic pension. However, my home is newish and well insulated. There are many people who are otherwise in a similar situation to me who have to pay a much bigger proportion of their income on heating.

Another alternative would be for those who don't need it to donate it back and it be used to insulate older and/or more draughty and hard to heat homes.

Whichever option I think it should be geared towards those who pay a bigger proportion of their (low) income on heating - not based on income alone.

There’s another thread on this exact topic.

I’ll post what I did there. Means testing as a way of fairly distributing to the needy doesn’t work. Morally sounds right but read the link below.

If you don’t need it give it to charity. I also posted the amount of charity the British public raise every year. It’s billions for both home and abroad. Trust people to do the right thing as most people will and don’t fight about who is most worthy. The only wrath should be directed as the government.

amp.theguardian.com/social-care-network/2013/jan/14/means-testing-benefits-not-efficient-fair

As PP have said, it would cost more to figure out and implement a more targeted system of giving out the money and there are always people who fall through the cracks. We have savings of £40 000, however our monthly income is £550. We retired a few years early and we are topping up our income from the savings. This was always planned and we're doing OK, but we don't tend to qualify for means tested benefits because of the high amount of savings. If they made this money means tested, we probably wouldn't get it yet we could definitely do with it.

Just pointing out gently that wealthy pensioners are getting £700. Elton John, Cliff Richard, Brian May, Paul McCartney, Mick Jagger......

Plus loads like my DF on index linked pensions of £100K plus who think that is fine cos they worked hard and paid their taxes.

I just don't get why disabled people get £150 and pensioners £300. I also don't get why child benefit is not availale to higher rate tax payers but pensioners on many multiples of the higher rate band get every benefit going "cos they're old".

Please would the pensioners on MN stop peddling the fiction about the £300 only going to those benefitting from the warm homes discount - the government has said it is going to everyone who benefits from the winter fuel allowance - which is paid to everyone in receipt of the state pension regardless of their income and capital resources.

Bingo.

thread goes the same way as the other one. No one bothers to read why means testing doesn’t work in helping the needy and fixates on the very rich and famous. Let the pensioner bashing commence.

He is buying votes by bribing every bill payer

It's absolute BS why are they giving away money. Surely it should be invested into generating cheaper electricity therefore reducing energy prices over the long term.
A one of payment is not going to fix high energy prices or help inflation.
This is just a brief appeasement of public opinion and a huge waste of tax payers money.
I understand people are struggling under the current financial burden but there are better solutions than this.

I pay higher tax too but definitely don't agree it's nice to get something back! This isn't meant to be a nice gift so you can reward yourself for being a high earner, it's meant to help feed people and keep them warm!

I expect it will work. Many of the electorate are thick enough to vote Tory at the next election.

Me too

They've been helping my wealthy pensioner parents and in-laws to heat their comfortable detached homes every winter for years with a winter fuel payment.

Everyone: gas and electricity prices are absolutely going crazy, the government should do something.

Government: OK, we'll subsidise it.

Everyone: but don't subsidise it for THOSE people. Please spend more of our money on making sure THOSE people don't benefit too.

Disclaimer- hate the Tory government and think A LOT could have been done- invest in renewable energy years ago; not rely on a county with a known sociopath as a leader; not be only interested in the investments of your mates, etc, etc, etc, But come on, many people above have given clear arguments as to why means testing was not the best way to go here, but no - you know best and you'd be able to run this country (although actually you probably would be better than bojo)