Every household?????

[Trainfromredhill]

So, the chancellor is going to give every household £400 for heating. Surely there should be a cut off of household income? The Beckhams, Elton John, james Dyson, Harry styles…….they all get the money too? . I say this as someone in the fortunate position of not needing the £400- I’d much rather it went to someone who does need it.Just seems a huge waste of public money to give it to everyone

That was pretty much my thought too!

STOP AND THINK

But that never seems to get through.

Maybe OP and others would like to contact the Treasury and offer to pay for the direct admin costs, to ensure that only those in need receive any money.

If not maybe just accept that there is no perfect solution that is cost effective. There will always be people who 'win' whilst others, as seen here, won't see a penny of it. They are the people you need to concentrate on - maybe offer your windfall to them?!

You could pay to set up a scheme that does just that!

I can see it's just cheaper/simpler to give everyone than set up a huge means testing structure. I'd say if you receive it and don't need it spend it in a small local business, donate it to the food bank, send it to the Red Cross or other charity close to your heart. There is loads of good that could be done with any unneeded £400s.

Your bills seem high - is it the mortgage driving it up

Do you have childcare costs?

I take it you don't live in an ex-council house in Blackpool. There's a huge saving for you there.

it would be better if people exercised more empathy and considered the systems and circumstances around people, rather than writing things like this.

Look at the structure of the labour market in this country. Do you really think there are oodles of six figure salaried jobs in Blackpool? Or do you think they are disproportionately based in London?

It’s never as simple as people want to make it.

Nor is it helpful to accuse anyone pointing this stuff out of being out of touch or whatever. It’s not saying that people with a £100k income are in the same financial situation as a disabled person on benefits. Merely that their lives might not be as comfortable or easy as you like to imagine.

👏🏻

I’m glad it’s for everyone. Besides, those on lower incomes get the council tax rebate too.
It would be impossible to determine who needs / deserves it.

A single person on 50k is almost certainly better off than a family of 4 or 5 on 100k.
Or what about people who small incomes who are exceptionally wealthy in asset terms?
Or perhaps it could be dependent on where you live…. It’s not going to be possible to rent anything in London for 1k a month but in some areas of the U.K. you could rent a 3 or 4 bed house for that. But from the other perspective, you don’t need as much heating down South (where live otherwise costs much more) whereas someone in a colder location probably needs their heating on until mid April.

I don’t think we should be seeing it as a handout rather than a reduction in energy prices. Energy costs have gone up for everyone so the help goes to everyone (and more so to those who need extra).

Marsha thank you this is useful food for thought.
"Isn’t the issue that it’s energy companies that are the system and they don’t have the capacity to match with zoopla or land registry etc"

I am not an expert on how the different levels of government work. But there has to be a way where central gmt pay those in council tax bands x and below via local gmt a one off credit of £400 which that household can then redirect to their chosen energy supplier.
If the payment is being made directly to the energy companies, in light of the number of different energy providers out there, it just feels totally circular and incestuous like the primary goal of the gmt here is to stay in the good books of the energy companies.
I think the "blank cheque" mentality of R.Sunak has run away with itself.

@JanetPluchinsky

Yeah.

Its a crime that well off people don't feel well off.

If you don't feel well off imagine how those in poverty feel?

Folk working 50 hour weeks for much less than your income

@Hallyup89 I live in a 2 bed ex council house in Wolverhampton. Is that satisfactory for you?

I mean central gmt pays local gmt for those who qualify (in a low enough council tax band) the £400 which is taken off individual council tax payers council tax bills. The council tax payer uses the money saved to pay their own energy supplier.

@Hallyup89 also, a terrible viewpoint there that people on lower incomes have lower intelligence levels. What an awful human you are.

You do get something back; the services that taxes pay for. You're not making a donation to charity when you pay tax. The people who pay most, actually, are the poorest, you're making the mistake of thinking income tax is the only tax.

Do people really think that a system based on zoopla house price matching (an inaccurate and gameable system!) is s viable means testing and delivery mechanism?

It’s almost absurd how little appreciation there is about the sheer complexity of actually getting a payment like this to people. Never mind adding on weird ways of means testing it.

It's so fucked up. We'll be donating ours to the Trussell Trust.

What taxes do you include within this? We have private healthcare and dentistry, so don’t use the NHS, pay for private nursery without any childcare funding and will pay for private schooling from primary. Those are some huge costs we won’t get back in services. Are you also including things like having bins collected?

It feels a bit head blurry at this point, but it’s not really going to energy companies in that way. It’s the government paying £400 of each of our bills.

It’s not profit to them, they’d take it off us if they didn’t get it.

I find the amounts stressful although I’ve kind of let go now as it’s just so much it washes over you. I do worry for the next generations. I think we have massively burdened them, and at times unfairly.

The benefit bill is going up too iirc as matching inflation (or nearly), not sure if that will be welcomed, but it will be useful.

Not related to your posts but generally it’s so close to Labour policies I’m not sure if you’d applaud Labour doing a windfall tax why this would make some angry. But I guess people are loyal over looking at the same thing in the same light.

Soggy
"Do people really think that a system based on zoopla house price matching (an inaccurate and gameable system!)"

OK maybe not zoopla but what is wrong with council tax bands? They are adjusted throughout the country so apart from those who are extremely cash poor sitting in houses they cannot really afford (and I dont know how many of those there are, but I would guess they struggled alot with their energy bills before the cost of living crisis and as I say above,they can still have the money they just have to actively apply for it) council tax bands could be utilised to ensure those very wealthy people are not spending their £400 equivalent on champagne or whatever.
Of course there is complexity involved in "getting a payment like this to people" but then this is a gmt which initiated a miriad of incredibly expensive "solutions" during the pandemic because emergency.

Surely that should be 'grand' pinching, not penny pinching.
If you're struggling on £100000, you're the one who needs lessons in economising from that Tory MP!

I agree and it’s hard not to have a gut response, but it’s really worth stepping back if you can.

Taking it all at face value I think I’d probably be looking to explain why £100k p/a wasn’t cushioning me from having to watch my budgets. It’s not really surprising to come across people punching down in order to elevate themselves and avoid the reality that they’re not doing quite as well as they thought. That’s not to say anyone has to be sympathetic but I use that to not misdirect my own grievances/anger.

A salary of £100k (or two salaries combining) doesn’t come without significant costs either - living in a particular area, transport/commutes, qualifications etc. it’s a bitter pill to swallow that you can invest in those costs and still not be financially secure. From my pov, it’s a reminder of how far off I am from improving my own situation if it’s not possible for people on £100k.

I do think people at all levels need to be aware of blaming/envying others because it really does remove the blame (and therefore responsibility) from those who are actually in a position to address issues.

I agree with parts of your post so no need to be patronising 😊. I was going to elaborate in my previous post and say that we can’t expect everyone to downsize etc but I ran out of time.

All I am saying and this was not aimed at you, is that those on 100,000 grand are not penny pinching. Another poster said that.

I agree, zoopla isn’t viable but not are even more robust sources due to complexity

@ShirleyPhallus

Emergency healthcare (did you go entirely private for all maternity services?)

Policing, fire service, govt, council, prisons, justice services,

We're also back to choice.

You pay tax. The govt provides healthcare, education

You choose not to use it and pay double.

Thats up to you. But the services are still there for you to use.

Presumably to avoid a cliff edge effect, but I agree it seems a bit mad.

Maybe there should be something where those of us who don't need it pledge to donate it or something?

😂

and then what, weight it by region? Or even more granular by council ward?

We don't get low income benefits as we have savings. You can't claim if you have over I think 16000. We get the child benefit that everyone gets.

I am not making out we are magicians anyway. It's a normal income to have. We are north west England