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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DS21 threatened DD18

485 replies

Safarigiraffe · 25/05/2022 22:30

Today when me/husband were at work DS was in the bathroom & DD had just got ready to leave to go to college. DD knocked on bathroom door & asked my son to hurry up as she was on a tight schedule to get the bus to leave, DS said to her no you have to wait and DD became agitated and started shouting at him to hurry up.
DS then came out the bathroom shoving daughter back in the stomach hard shouting/swearing & intimidating her so DD at this point was very visibly upset & shaking as it wasn’t like my son to react on this way and went to the bathroom to which DS then pushed the door open again shouting/swearing in her face.
DD was at college crying on/off all day, now we have spoken to DD & to DD saying this must never happen again, DS is refusing to apologise & DD never wants to speak to him ever again saying she now feels uncomfortable to be in the house with him however we both work and can’t take time off. (DD is at college DS at Uni)
Can anyone advise of the best way forward here
Many thanks to everyone

OP posts:
boronia · 26/05/2022 09:04

On one hand this is a stupid sibling squabble, but between 2 adults who let it get way out of hand. My kids argued a lot even as teens over the bathroom like this but it was NEVER violent and physical.
On the other hand, if your son behaved like this with a girlfriend she would possibly call the police on him.
You need to sit down and read the riot act to him.
He also should move out.

Innocenta · 26/05/2022 09:11

The victim blaming in this thread is absolutely disgusting and shameful. It doesn't matter that DD shouted. Even if she swore or was annoying - it does. Not. Fucking. Matter.

She should never have to fear being assaulted in her own home by an adult male. Period.

5foot5 · 26/05/2022 09:11

DD never wants to speak to him ever again saying she now feels uncomfortable to be in the house with him however we both work and can’t take time off. (DD is at college DS at Uni)

Perhaps as a short term measure you should ensure he is never in the house alone with your DD. This probably means removing his key and insisting that he gets up early and leaves the house when you go to work and stays out until you or your husband get back. This falls short of kicking him out but could:

  • help your DD feel safer in her own home and reassure her you take her safety seriously
  • be such a massive ball's ache to your DS that he hurries up the flat search
  • emphasises to your DS just how seriously you view this situation, just in case he thinks what he did is no big deal

I guess the outcome you want is for your DS to show some real remorse and recognition that what he did stepped over a line and/or you get to the bottom of what caused this out of character behaviour and find some way of tackling that issue.

If he is at Uni could it be that he is in a friendship group whose unsavoury attitudes have rubbed off on him?

Innocenta · 26/05/2022 09:11

I wonder if the son has become embroiled in incel culture online.

ancientgran · 26/05/2022 09:12

Badgirlriri · 25/05/2022 22:50

This is a normal occurrence in my house 😂 it’s just fighting siblings!

Glad it's not just me. I've got 4 and shouting and arguing in the morning wasn't rare.

Innocenta · 26/05/2022 09:12

PearlclutchersInc · 26/05/2022 08:43

The pair of them are adults and need to get a grip, Your son needs to give his sister some leeway and your daughter needs to stop being such a drama queen...crying all day, really?

However, he does need to apologise and realise that he doesn't push and shove his sister around - or anyone else for that matter.

I think she is allowed to cry after a violent assault.

DillyDilly · 26/05/2022 09:14

I think everyone needs to calm down here a little.

I doubt the OP has a clear picture of what happened - her daughter became agitated and started shouting at her brother - he was shouting/swearing/intimidating her. Perhaps her daughter was also swearing and being intimidating as part of being agitated ?

He shoved her hard in the stomach - perhaps as he was coming out of the bathroom she rushed towards him/the door and he pushed her away ? Maybe her DS was in the middle of a shower, using the toilet, or whatever and couldn’t easily get out quickly. How many of us/our children stand outside a door getting agitated and shouting at the person inside - I think most can control ourselves a little better. Obviously though, if the DD was yelling at her brother, he was going to yell back.

Throwing her DS out, calling the police, and the like will cause a huge split in the family that will never be repaired. Is that really what the OP, her DH, her DD or DS would really want?

5foot5 · 26/05/2022 09:15

Innocenta · 26/05/2022 09:11

I wonder if the son has become embroiled in incel culture online.

@Innocenta
Yes that is kind of what I was getting at with my last para

ancientgran · 26/05/2022 09:16

boronia · 26/05/2022 09:04

On one hand this is a stupid sibling squabble, but between 2 adults who let it get way out of hand. My kids argued a lot even as teens over the bathroom like this but it was NEVER violent and physical.
On the other hand, if your son behaved like this with a girlfriend she would possibly call the police on him.
You need to sit down and read the riot act to him.
He also should move out.

I think we'd need to know about the shoving, was she blocking him getting out of the bathroom? Seems more likely than him suddenly deciding to attack her. I can well imagine her getting agitated and shouting and then standing right at the door, him being wound up as he doesn't feel he was in there for long and then trying to get past her. On the otherhand he might have just turned violent but hard to judge.

Greyarea12 · 26/05/2022 09:16

If this is it out character for your son then there's something underlying here I would say. For him to let his emotions get out of control there's likely something going on that your unaware of.. probably something that's causing him stress. I would work on that first but alongside that he has to recognise what he has done and that it is wrong and how he has made his sister feel. How about getting his sister to write down how it has made her feel. When he reads it, it could be a conversation starter. From this you may well be able to find out what's going on with him and at the same time getting him to recognise the impact of his actions on his sister.

NiqueNique · 26/05/2022 09:17

She’s not being a ‘drama llama,’ for being upset at having been assaulted and physically hurt by a fully grown man. She’s every right to be devastated by that.

Some of you people have really screwed up perspectives on this. And those who are minimising it and saying it’s normal, I pity you if that’s your normal. It’s certainly not normal for everyone.

BadNomad · 26/05/2022 09:21

I think we'd need to know about the shoving

Well, the shove was severe enough to distress the woman into crying all day and now doesn't feel comfortable being in the house with the man. I don't see why anyone else's interpretation of the shove matters.

wellhelloitsme · 26/05/2022 09:22

If OP's DH had shoved, shouted at, intimidated and frightened OP would people be defending him?

Would they call OP a drama llama for being upset about it all day?

Would they ask if OP swore and then say well, six of one half a dozen of the other?

It's baffling how sibling assaults (even when they are adults) are dismissed and minimised in a way that doesn't happen with any other dynamic.

He's 21. He's going to be bigger and stronger than her. Likely by a long shot. He intimidated and hurt her. Then refused to discuss or apologise. He's being awful.

BadNomad · 26/05/2022 09:23

He doesn't even care that he's made another human - let alone family - feel like this.

Bootothegoose · 26/05/2022 09:26

He apologies or he leaves, simple.

’it’s sorted don’t worry about it’

It’s sorted when you say it’s sorted. Your teenage daughter was physically assaulted in her own home, the fact it was her brother is irrelevant. You’re diminishing his behaviour and showing your daughter she needs to get on with it.

Would you be this calm if it had happened between you and your husband? This isn’t a sibling spat this is your adult son shoving his sister. Not on, at all.

NiqueNique · 26/05/2022 09:28

Yes his attitude is disturbing too - he clearly doesn’t care and doesn’t think it’s a big deal. There is something going on with him and you need to excavate what that is. Also, he doesn’t get to say it’s all sorted and refuse to apologise. It’s your home, you’re the authority here - your word goes and no, it’s not all sorted and he needs to apologise, sincerely, to his sister.

Bootothegoose · 26/05/2022 09:30

Safarigiraffe · 25/05/2022 23:51

I be hoping he moves out if there’s a next time - I love both my children equally however I will not tolerate this from my DS & just cos we are not kicking him out it doesn’t make us bad parents. DD is of course a priority here for us to protect however she’s very confused as to how/why this happened as she’s said herself he’s never done something like this before even when I’ve knocked/shouted for him I need to use bathroom/get something

You’ll be hoping?

You’ve said it’s the first and last time. What are you going to do if it happens again? Read him another riot act?

What if he punches her next time? Would you still sit them both down, question them and then diminish it because it’s out of character? Your son assaulted your daughter - do something about it!

ConfusedElephant · 26/05/2022 09:31

Your son isn't a decent person.

CPL593H · 26/05/2022 09:33

I don't understand the people who think that the son being physical in this situation is OK. They are adults, not little ones having a spat and it doesn't even sound as if he's sorry. Similar age gap with my brother (I'm the oldest) and there were many, many occasions as young adults where one of us was hogging the bathroom and the other was screeching at them to hurry up (usually accompanied by threats to hide the others curling tongs/clean shirts/makeup/whatever if they didn't)

That is normal sibling stress. What is described in the OP isn't and shouldn't be swept under the carpet and minimised because he says its "sorted".

CaptSkippy · 26/05/2022 09:35

RomeoMcFlourish · 25/05/2022 22:33

Your son is an adult. I’d be telling him to find somewhere else to live if that was how he was going to behave.

I second this.

Bubblesandsqueak1 · 26/05/2022 09:35

God what load of dramatic posters on hear today the op said it herself he has never done this before his adult sister was annoying him and shouting at him repeatedly, he got frustrated and shoved her out the way then he shouted, should he have shoved her and shouted at her no should she have bugged him and shouted at him no they both need to move out and be away from each other neither of them respect personal space or boundaries

CaptSkippy · 26/05/2022 09:38

Bubblesandsqueak1 · 26/05/2022 09:35

God what load of dramatic posters on hear today the op said it herself he has never done this before his adult sister was annoying him and shouting at him repeatedly, he got frustrated and shoved her out the way then he shouted, should he have shoved her and shouted at her no should she have bugged him and shouted at him no they both need to move out and be away from each other neither of them respect personal space or boundaries

And this attitude is precisely why we have so many violent young men in the world. What he did was so severe, it doesn't even come close to her behavior. Even if he was willing to appologize, I would not want a violent man in the house even if I gave birth to him.

Bootothegoose · 26/05/2022 09:40

Bubblesandsqueak1 · 26/05/2022 09:35

God what load of dramatic posters on hear today the op said it herself he has never done this before his adult sister was annoying him and shouting at him repeatedly, he got frustrated and shoved her out the way then he shouted, should he have shoved her and shouted at her no should she have bugged him and shouted at him no they both need to move out and be away from each other neither of them respect personal space or boundaries

Replace the word sister with wife and ask yourself is that behaviour still acceptable.

Being related does not give you a free ticket to assault someone. They are not 12 and 9 - he is 21 years old. He should be able to control his temper to the point he doesn’t have to shove a woman.

MerryMarigold · 26/05/2022 09:45

Brains are not fully developed until 25 years old. This is not a 'serious assault'. But people living their online internet lives can afford to be so black and white because it's not their life. Also this is in AIBU 🙄.

OP, I think your measured but serious response is right. I hope you get to the bottom of what's going on with DS.

CornishGem1975 · 26/05/2022 09:46

I have a DS and a DD.

Your duty here is to protect your daughter. Both of adult age but your son is older. He needs to find somewhere else to live. I wouldn't tolerate an inch of it.

There's no way I would live with that level of aggresion in my house. What would you do if he did that to you?