DS21 threatened DD18

[Safarigiraffe]

Today when me/husband were at work DS was in the bathroom & DD had just got ready to leave to go to college. DD knocked on bathroom door & asked my son to hurry up as she was on a tight schedule to get the bus to leave, DS said to her no you have to wait and DD became agitated and started shouting at him to hurry up.
DS then came out the bathroom shoving daughter back in the stomach hard shouting/swearing & intimidating her so DD at this point was very visibly upset & shaking as it wasn’t like my son to react on this way and went to the bathroom to which DS then pushed the door open again shouting/swearing in her face.
DD was at college crying on/off all day, now we have spoken to DD & to DD saying this must never happen again, DS is refusing to apologise & DD never wants to speak to him ever again saying she now feels uncomfortable to be in the house with him however we both work and can’t take time off. (DD is at college DS at Uni)
Can anyone advise of the best way forward here
Many thanks to everyone

Did you miss this bit?

My DD only wanted to grab something out the bathroom to leave she wasn’t wanting to use the bathroom as she was already ready

If he had just passed her what she needed then none of this would have happened. She was just trying to get the bus on time!

@Cinnamon1991 Can you explain why it should be the daughter who has to leave the house rather than him? He hasn't denied what he's done, the parents believe that she's telling the truth, but she has to be the one to leave. Why?

@CPL593H I will tell you why...i wish people read my advice before attacking me. This situation is not ideal and from the vibe OP is giving she doesn't really wanna kick out her son. This is STILL her son, it's not as simple as 'kick him out'....and then what? You kick him out you lose him forever, he will most like continue to be on the deviant path he is and become a full on abuser. They will feel like shit parents and at that point no intervention will work because it would be too late. Or try to intervene with professional help and intervene themselves, try their best to put their son on the right path through professional help etc. This way atleast there is a chance you can help BOTH children.

Explaining the situation to her DD and I am sure she would understand. You tell that girl you love her, her safety matters and so this is a temporary thing until they as parents set DS straight. I am not saying anyone has to follow my advice honestly. If you are ever in the situation as OP and wish to kick your son out by all means go for it. But from the tone OP is giving so far I can tell she doesn't want to kick out her son while also wishing to safeguard her daughter...hence this is what I came up with. If you don't agree with me then that's fine. It was just one of many solutions. Also I had a relative who was in a similar situation and when I was a lot younger me and my friends would be 'why doesn't she kick him out' but now having children of my own I know it's not as easy as that to just kick out a deviant child without atleast trying.

That relative is now doing well and intervention worked and now all sibling get along which is why I suggested it. Rather then kick him out right of the bat. Obviously if intervention fails and he continues to exhibit violent tendencies then hell yeah...kick him out. But atleast you would know you tried.

Absolutely. Awful suggestion.

Cinnamon, the parents can't force the son to get professional help. He isn't sorry and he doesn't seem to care. Hardly a candidate is he?!

Im sure the daughter would understand too

Im sure the daughter would understand that its more important to keep an aggressive son living at home than her
Im sure the daughter woukd understand she was less important
Im sure the daughter woukd understand that if she dares complain about being assaulted she risks loosing her home
Im sure the daughter woukd understand that if men shove she should keep her mouth shut in future

Plenty there for her to understand

@jaffacakesareepic well than in which case kick the son out. I am sure OP will not feel an ounce of responsibility when she learns he is a total whack job in his 30s. I suppose the fact that the daughter will be with a relative 'temporarily' maybe say 2 weeks till the situation is de-escalated just flew over your head.

If this was MY son abusing MY daughter, I would try this solution first. If my daughter was uncomfortable with living with her aunt for 2 weeks then I would move out with her. But in no means is my son being kicked out without me trying to resolve his 'psycho' tendencies.

But sure simply 'kick him out'...that is the solution to all the problems I suppose. It is quite clear this solution suggested by so many of you is not appealing to OP as she doesn't seem to respond positively to any of the posters calling for this amazing solution. 🙄

we dont know he was hogging the bathroom

Thinking of you OP. Hope you’ve managed to settle things between your children and this will never happen again. I’m sure you’ll do what is best for your whole family.
You sound like loving parents. Take care

Its ALL part and parcel of living together. Also being around people who you are going to see at their worst. When theyre premenstrual, when they havent slept, when they have mental health issues, when theyre in a rush.
Living with other people is generally pretty hellish. Becomes more so as they are getting ready to leave the nest. If it was all joy then kids would never move out.

I dunno, sometimes being on mumsnet makes me feel like im from a different world. Im glad times are moving forward so that violence and aggression are seen as serious issues that need to be dealt with, but my experience is that conflict is really normal in households between siblings. Ops son shoved his sister out of the way in an aggressive way when she was hassling him to get out of the bathroom. Id say he was more in the wrong than her, but Its not the same as a husband doing it to a wife.

This would have been normal for my grandparents, my parents, my own childhood, most of my cousins, my friends childhoods. Older sisters are just as horrible as older brothers. The sibling relationship is not like other relationships.

Maybe they used to have the right idea expecting kids to be out and already married and working by now rather than acting like stupid entitled kids, and then one demanding the other is kicked out.
Noones got any bloody resilience anymore. People are speaking as if this guy is systematically beating his family members up.
It just feels very unrealistic.
I wouldnt blame the girl for not speaking to her brother for a while. What I dont think is useful is for any child to demand their parent kick out another child.

I would say that its a sign they should be looking to move on though

Why are so many posters saying he shoved past her or shoved her out of the way? She says he shoved her in the stomach which sounds like an aggressive push with his hand or hands, rather than pushing past someone which would be more like jostling. Plus having got past her he turned around to push the door open so he could continue being abusive to her. He wasn't just trying to get past her to leave the bathroom because she was in the way. He was punishing her for her having the temerity to shout at him to hurry up.

Exactly this.

@Branleuse he didn't just push past her, he shoved her.

Ops son shoved his sister out of the way in an aggressive way when she was hassling him to get out of the bathroom. Id say he was more in the wrong than her, but Its not the same as a husband doing it to a wife.

Why isn't it the same? He's an adult. He's bigger and stronger than her. She wanted to grab something from the bathroom because she had to get the bus on time. He could have passed it to her. He escalated this to a ridiculous level, hurt her and frightened her. He then wouldn't let her keep the door shut to get away from him or de-escalate the situation, instead he burst in and continue to shout and swear in her face aggressively, frightening her further.

because theyre siblings that have grown up together and have lived together forever. They didnt choose them. It was one overrreacting when the other was being annoying.
You know there is a middle ground between him being an aggressive womanbeater that needs to be kicked out of his parents house for safety reasons, and him being an innocent boy who can do no wrong.
She was acting like a dick. He reacted by being even more of a dick.
We stay with our families usually until we are mature enough to go out into the world. He has done this acting like a bloody child and hes not. Hes too big. Id be fucking furious with him, but i also really really hate it when I get harrassed to leave the bathroom by people who should be more organised, and thankfully I can control myself , but sometimes it pisses me off more than others. I do not expect my 21 year old to have the same maturity as me. Family life can be bloody difficult

The son is currently refusing to apologise or even acknowledging his wrongdoing but somehow two weeks without his sister is going to be sufficient to change his whole attitude?

And the test, move the teenage girl back in and sit back and wait and see if the adult male assaults her again.

Its not things flying over my head that is the problem here

The son is an adult. His adult actions have adult consequnces. Teaching him that if he assaults those he lives with he is no longer welcome to live with them until he sorts his behaviour out is a consequence for him.

Disrupting his sisters entire life whilst nothing changes for him teaches him his adult actions have no consequences for him. Im not sure what you think he is going to learn from that other than he can do what he likes and others pay the price.

Schools stop bullying by excluding the bully not the victim. Society stops violence (not currently well but thats another story) by excluding the agressor from society not the victim.

@Branleuse

He won't apologise or discuss it. Which sounds to me like he doesn't give a fuck about what happened. Hard to believe a man who doesn't give a fuck about it won't do it again IMO.

This.

As a grown man (and however immature a 21 year old is, he IS a grown man physically), pushing, shoving or in any way physically threatening a woman is a redline.

That is the ONLY lesson he needs to know. There is absolutely no justification for laying a hand on a woman. He needs to walk away. No excuse whatsoever, particularly from the 'she made me do it' apologists here.

This is a redline that is carved in stone.

What i find interesting is everyone screaming about the DS here being an abuser after a one off incident. We are dealing with two siblings, both adults, both got wound up with each other and one screaming and the other pushing his sibling. This isnt a DH /wife issue this is sibling relationship and you cant compare like for like. The OP isnt going to throw one of her kids out so lets be sensible about the way forward following a one off incident.

Exactly! Some of these posters are crazy! Man bashing agenda.

I couldnt say either way, but ive never been a one strike and youre out kind of person for my children.
People seem to have more compassion for a dog that bites someone if they can see even the slightest hint that it might have felt provoked, than they do for a young bloke that barged into his sister in a mood after being harrassed.

I actually dont even think that kicking her brother out is necessarily in the best interests of the sister. Its not a pleasant place to be when you think your parents would cut you off or throw you out if you made a mistake, and that would be a lot for her to carry if it affected their relationship.

If this was a guy with a history of bullying his sister, id say differently

Its not a pleasant place to be when you think your parents would cut you off or throw you out if you made a mistake

I think that's the crux of it. He doesn't think he made a mistake. He hasn't acknowledged it or apologised to his sister. If he'd said, "shit I'm so sorry that was a step too far, it won't ever happen again" he'd have a different reception both from his sister, and from MN.

In this scenario, you're asking a young woman to live with an unrepentant man who assaulted her.

They are BOTH adults. The language here is telling. MN forums will always be ready to condemn men.

MAN, MALE

YOUNG GIRL, DAUGHTER

Both adults, but god forbid we imply that an ADULT FEMALE also has behavioural standards to uphold. People are infantilising her, and trying to widen the age/power dynamic between 2 siblings who have had a totally inappropriately expressed fight.