DS21 threatened DD18

[Safarigiraffe]

Today when me/husband were at work DS was in the bathroom & DD had just got ready to leave to go to college. DD knocked on bathroom door & asked my son to hurry up as she was on a tight schedule to get the bus to leave, DS said to her no you have to wait and DD became agitated and started shouting at him to hurry up.
DS then came out the bathroom shoving daughter back in the stomach hard shouting/swearing & intimidating her so DD at this point was very visibly upset & shaking as it wasn’t like my son to react on this way and went to the bathroom to which DS then pushed the door open again shouting/swearing in her face.
DD was at college crying on/off all day, now we have spoken to DD & to DD saying this must never happen again, DS is refusing to apologise & DD never wants to speak to him ever again saying she now feels uncomfortable to be in the house with him however we both work and can’t take time off. (DD is at college DS at Uni)
Can anyone advise of the best way forward here
Many thanks to everyone

And a first reaction of KICK HIM OUT. POOR HER. HE’S ABUSIVE. SHE MUST BE TERRIFIED. Is not being a reasonable parent and getting to the bottom of what happened. It’s putting gender bias at the heart of a family fall out, caused by 2 adults behaving like silly children.

Yeah, that's not gender bias from PP @Derbee

It's sex bias.

Men are bigger & more powerful than women. Due to sex differences.
Which is why they must be raised understanding the reasons they should believe in, & promote to other males, a zero tolerance attitude to male-on-female violence.

The biggest gender bias I can see her is from OP & her DH, who are treating their son as a little god who can push his sister around with impunity, refuse to apologise for it, gruffly announce that - as far as he is concerned, never mind his sister - "it's sorted."

They are allowing that young man to rule their roost, & asking their DD to pay the price for it.

She shouted and was agitated. There are countless threads on here where that is deemed as abuse. At least if done by a male.

I could see my brother being 'pushed' to this behaviour even now if a woman (or man) 'wound him up', and I'm sure he'd definitely have a pop at me if he could. Twenty years on and I do still walk on eggshells around him and know not to press certain issues.

On the other hand, it would never cross my husband's mind to react physically with his siblings or any one else for that matter. I've seen him in situations where men like my brother would become physically violent but he managed to diffuse and/or walk away from the situation. So men like that do exist.

For it to escalate to physical violence is not part of a normal sibling relationship, especially when there is the difference of sex involved. I remember watching TV shows when I was younger and being amazed (and jealous!) when a storyline involved a brother and sister arguing but never ending with violence. Seeing these female characters being unafraid to speak their mind, knowing that they wouldn't end up with broken bones and bruises was definitely something I wished I could have at home.

Anyway OP, if you're still reading I hope your son has the self awareness to apologise and mean it and that you listen to your daughter.

She shouted and was agitated. There are countless threads on here where that is deemed as abuse. At least if done by a male.

Oh do stop over-egging it @Oscarthedog
She was desperate for the bathroom & yelled "hurry up".

A non-abusive action seen in millions of families throughout the UK every morning.
Whether the desperate hurry-upper is female OR male.

It's so interesting that some posters see a zero-tolerance approach to violence as being biased against boys and men.

They are obviously starting from the underlying assumption that all men and boys are fundamentally violent by nature, and that it's therefore unreasonable - discrimatory even - to expect boys and men to curb that natural violent instinct.

I'm sorry that people's experiences in life have led them to perceive men in this way. I have been lucky enough to be surrounded by men who are not violent or aggressive, and so I don't see it in the same way.

@CanofCant

Calling the DD, who was physically assaulted, 'abusive', is just absolutely disgusting. That is explicit and deliberate victim blaming, which you should be ashamed of.

This is not a violent man, this is a young person being wound up by his sister.

I really hope the people making this excuse are not bringing up sons.

My dd can be extremely irritating and winds me up all the time. I never raise a hand to her but she was physically attacked by her ex who she wound up. Is that ok?

Or maybe you have to teach your sons to walk away when they are being wound up?

PS. My brother is four years older than me and never in a million years would he have raised a hand to me.

You are too funny.

A sahp would not (normally) take over the bathroom around the time the working partner would be wanting to leave. Its common sense. Or indeed someone who works afternoon/night shifts would not take over the bathroom at the same time as a sahp would be taking the children to school or a medical appointment.

Weirdly, I actually think the sex bias is on the other side.

Calling a man who has assaulted someone a violent man is not an example of bias against boys and men.

Extrapolating from that and denying that the man who assaulted someone should be described as violent because that would carry the implication that all males were violent - including a 6 week old baby ffs! - is the very essence of bias.

Some men are violent. It is OK to say that.

@Mumwantingtogetitright

Indeed. I imagine a lot of us who do have a zero-tolerance approach to violence from men have it because we've been in that position of being terrified by an aggressive man. We do not think men are fundamentally violent by nature, and that's why we don't dismiss what the OP's son did as normal behaviour. Others, however, seem to have normalised it and can excuse it in certain scenarios.

But it isn't normal. It isn't right. It should not be tolerated. Putting your hands on another person because you've lost control is ALWAYS wrong.

Well said.

It's painfully clear how some men are conditioned from birth to expect their behaviour to be tolerated by women unconditionally.

If I have a son I will be first and foremost passionate about teaching him to be one of the good guys who is respectful and not violent. I won't be defensive from their birth and speak like an MRA / incel about how hard done by boys and men are.

Why are people talking as if they were actually there? Even the OP doesn’t know exactly what was said/happened from both sides.

She has seen the fallout and has her DD’s description of events. Her DS is not talking.

Imagine how she will be treated - alone - by a man who has refused to apologise for pushing, shouting & terrifying her, & whose parents refuse to give consequences to him or protection to their daughter?

What will happen is she will stop bothering to tell her parents. That's what happened with my brother. I genuinely thought he'd kill me one day. I stopped bothering to tell my parents, they did nothing except victim-blame and minimise.

Fortunately he's incapable of having a relationship with an adult woman so at least he won't hurt any other women.

And a first reaction of KICK HIM OUT. POOR HER. HE’S ABUSIVE. SHE MUST BE TERRIFIED. Is not being a reasonable parent and getting to the bottom of what happened. It’s putting gender bias at the heart of a family fall out, caused by 2 adults behaving like silly children

Actually, why are you assuming that we would condone the sister if she had physically attacked her brother?

What will happen is she will stop bothering to tell her parents. That's what happened with my brother. I genuinely thought he'd kill me one day. I stopped bothering to tell my parents, they did nothing except victim-blame and minimise.

Sorry you've been there too

Well we need an awful lot of police officers if everytime one person shoves another they are going to get arrested and prosecuted. Heaven only knows how many prisons we'd need.

I wonder how many people would get arrested trying to get on a bus or train in the rush hour?

@Safarigiraffe These two posts don't add up.

No as she went into the bathroom to close the door he pushed the door open stopping her from closing the door
My DD only wanted to grab something out the bathroom to leave she wasn’t wanting to use the bathroom as she was already ready

If she only wanted to grab something why did she need to close the door?

@MrsTerryPratchett

We'd be put a lot more violent offenders is jail, without question. This is how it should be.

Because she was trying to get away from someone bigger and stronger who had shoved her, was shouting and swearing and intimidating her. So she tried to go into the bathroom to get away from him, not necessarily because she needed something in there. Then he pushed the door open and continued to shout and swear at her, in her face this time:

DS then came out the bathroom shoving daughter back in the stomach hard shouting/swearing & intimidating her so DD at this point was very visibly upset & shaking as it wasn’t like my son to react on this way and went to the bathroom to which DS then pushed the door open again shouting/swearing in her face.

& why are you obsessing over the forensics?

There was a minor spat - it happens.
People's tempers were frayed - it happens.

What shouldn't happen is that one of those people decides to use physical force & intimidation, while preventing the intimidated party from leaving.

What should never happen is both parents throwing up their hands & saying "oh, boys will be boys, our girl will just have to suck it up."

Which is all OP & her DH have done, essentially.

To get away from the angry man who was screaming and shoving her.

Ok let's switch all this around abut,

Ds I has just got in the shower and my adult sister shouted though the door to hurry up I had already waited ages to use the bathroom so said no she then repeated shouted at me to hurry up and banging on the door so I started to get pissed off with her I get out the shower and she is still banging and screaming at me, I open the door and she is standing in the door way shouting about missing her bus I shout back at he and shove her out the way so I can leave the bathroom and then shout so more as I was so angry at her by this point and I am sick of her shit and have been trying to find my own place to live, she then crys on the phone to mum who always takes her side so I just claim up its pointless arguing as ds is always right on reflection I should not have pushed her out the way but I am still angry and sick of her shit,

You left out the bit where the sister is so scared she tries to shut herself in the bathroom but he pushes his way in to continue swearing in her face.