DS21 threatened DD18

[Safarigiraffe]

Today when me/husband were at work DS was in the bathroom & DD had just got ready to leave to go to college. DD knocked on bathroom door & asked my son to hurry up as she was on a tight schedule to get the bus to leave, DS said to her no you have to wait and DD became agitated and started shouting at him to hurry up.
DS then came out the bathroom shoving daughter back in the stomach hard shouting/swearing & intimidating her so DD at this point was very visibly upset & shaking as it wasn’t like my son to react on this way and went to the bathroom to which DS then pushed the door open again shouting/swearing in her face.
DD was at college crying on/off all day, now we have spoken to DD & to DD saying this must never happen again, DS is refusing to apologise & DD never wants to speak to him ever again saying she now feels uncomfortable to be in the house with him however we both work and can’t take time off. (DD is at college DS at Uni)
Can anyone advise of the best way forward here
Many thanks to everyone

Two male nephews were in a situation recently. The younger one (17) was shouting at his brother (20) because he wanted to use something and the older one was already using it. The one shouting kept on and on and was eventually pushed out of the way and smacked over the head.

Should my DB and SIL have kicked out their ‘Violent, abusive’ eldest son?
or should they have done what they did do which is talk to them both and tell them that they are both out of order?

@ICannotRememberAThing Why are you so obsessed with victim blaming?

The problem in the OP’s situation is that her son won’t apologise.

@Derbee Do you have an abusive son? It's the only thing I can think of that explains your post.

The problem is that her son assaulted her daughter.

Should my DB and SIL have kicked out their ‘Violent, abusive’ eldest son

Yes, if the attack was as deliberately threatening, sustained and caused the other son to be as traumatised as the DD in the OP, whilst the perpetrator refused to see any problem with their behaviour let alone apologise!

Should my DB and SIL have kicked out their ‘Violent, abusive’ eldest son?

Sorry
ICannotRememberAThing - Should my DB and SIL have kicked out their ‘Violent, abusive’ eldest son?

He's 20? Yes, if he wouldn't apologise or talk to the DB or SIL about it i would start the convo about not living in the house.

But again that isn't what happened in OPS house. Why do we keep having to have these stories with tenuous links to the events here? All of us here have read the OP and understood it.

You haven't answered anyone elses hyperthetical situation i see. Here's one:

What if this the son had done this to the OP?
Or
What if DH was the one doing the shoving?

And a Q: at what age does it become a kick outable offense?

Well OP I hope everyone will be able to put it behind them but you all need to sit down together - it's not good enough that your son think it's all over if your daughter doesn't.
Your son needs to make a genuine apology to his sister.

You're right. I think everyone here would agree with you.

But he wont.
So what now?

I cannot get my head around the fact that anyone thinks it is OK or normal for an adult man of 21 to assault anyone, even if they have shouted at them.

Surely the norm is for dc to grow out of hitting each other much, much younger than that? Like, primary school age? It sounds like some pps think violence is much more normal than I think it is.

Because it is a violent assault and he could face jailtime for it.

Women are not believe because of people like you spreading lies.

@Laiste

If it were me I think I'd ask my son to go out for a drive and say " what on earth happened? Your sister is beside herself."
Get him to explain his side.

It seems incredible to me that his parents have to point out how badly he behaved and that he just doesn't get it but this seems to be the situation here.

The OP said her husband has said to the son " this must never happen again" , but I'm imagining that's cold comfort to the daughter.

Far, far too many times on Mumsnet I read the expression " I'm walking on eggshells around him" and this young girl might feel the same in her family home.

The OP said her husband has said to the son " this must never happen again" , but I'm imagining that's cold comfort to the daughter.

Far, far too many times on Mumsnet I read the expression " I'm walking on eggshells around him" and this young girl might feel the same in her family home.

Exactly.
I wonder if her parents are going to allow her to be Home Alone with her brother.

Imagine how she will be treated - alone - by a man who has refused to apologise for pushing, shouting & terrifying her, & whose parents refuse to give consequences to him or protection to their daughter?

Dunno about you but I'm starting to hope that this is an invention @boronia . Because the alternative is so fucking depressing.

She works, he doesn't. Therefore she takes priority. A normal person knows roughly what time a family person needs to leave the house for work.

excellent that should please all the sahm on here. I encourage all working partners to take this posters advice.

@KettrickenSmiled totally agree with you

Quite honestly if my husband of 21 years suddenly assaulted me in a way the was completely out of character I would be insisting on medical investigation as I would assume he had a brain tumour or some other personality changing serious illness.

The fact that the OP doesnt seem to feel this warrants medical intervention despite being 'out of character' makes me think that this isnt in fact out of character but merely an escalation of previously aggressive behaviour which has just turned into physical aggression

Possibly not, I do think in the heat of the moment, or just after, we have very strong emotional reactions, and sometimes after a bit of reflection we can feel differently. So it may be that the DD feels the situation can be resolved in another way, or she may continue to feel unsafe in which case her needs should be paramount.

So an abusive woman gets hit by a violent man. Whilst it's not 50:50 both are partly at fault. He should have just told her to shut up and carried on as he was. There was no need to escalate.

Exactly.

His comfort in stonewalling his parents is the key thing.

I don't for a minute believe this is the first time he has ever treated his parents with arrogance and disrespect.

"It's sorted."🙄

Tells me everything about how he views his place in the family.

Just as all the defending of a 21 year old assaulting his sister because she banged on a door under pressure to get to work tells souch about posters.

Those that dismiss it, belittle the daughters upset, explain it as family squabbling, just explains how so many posters on MN, in violent relationships get turned away from sisters, mothers, family, when they reach out for support.

If you have grown up from a background where you think a 21 brother shoving his sister isn't violence, then you believe violence in the home is acceptable sometimes.

Such thinking is what keeps women trapped in abusive relationships and men feeling entitled to hurt women.

Violence in the home isn't normal, nor acceptable.

Ever.

Don't be silly.

Neither the DD or the DS are SAHM's.

And being a SAHM is ... working.

@Innocenta I have a 6 week old son. And I refuse to condemn him to a life of unfair treatment/ thinking the worst of him purely because of his sex.

I’ve already had midwives and health visitors putting feeding issues etc down to his sex, with stupid comments like “typical male” “huh, boys, what do you expect” etc etc

Everyone needs to behave decently. OP’s DD is seemingly completely innocent because of her sex. It’s ridiculous. And a first reaction of KICK HIM OUT. POOR HER. HE’S ABUSIVE. SHE MUST BE TERRIFIED. Is not being a reasonable parent and getting to the bottom of what happened. It’s putting gender bias at the heart of a family fall out, caused by 2 adults behaving like silly children.

BOTH need to adjust their behaviour, and make a plan going forward

Can you explain where you think the DD was "at fault" @Oscarthedog ?

Or should I just guess? -
Is it the same kind of fault abusive men DARVO their cowed partner with: "now look what you made me do" ?

@Derbee But OP's son is abusive. He assaulted her daughter.

You need to revise your opinions and behaviour very rapidly or you are doing your sweet little DS a disservice. He is totally innocent now and you have a chance to bring him up to be loving, respectful and non abusive. So don't squander it.

Wow, that's a very weird projection.

We are talking about a 21 year old man who physically assaulted his younger sister, and you are getting defensive about your six week old baby?

This is not about your son. If he isn't violent or abusive when he is older, then he won't be judged as such. Why on earth are you preemptively trying to make excuses for violent behaviour - talking about it as "little lapses" - before it has even happened?

Sorry, but that's pretty fucked up.