DS21 threatened DD18

[Safarigiraffe]

Today when me/husband were at work DS was in the bathroom & DD had just got ready to leave to go to college. DD knocked on bathroom door & asked my son to hurry up as she was on a tight schedule to get the bus to leave, DS said to her no you have to wait and DD became agitated and started shouting at him to hurry up.
DS then came out the bathroom shoving daughter back in the stomach hard shouting/swearing & intimidating her so DD at this point was very visibly upset & shaking as it wasn’t like my son to react on this way and went to the bathroom to which DS then pushed the door open again shouting/swearing in her face.
DD was at college crying on/off all day, now we have spoken to DD & to DD saying this must never happen again, DS is refusing to apologise & DD never wants to speak to him ever again saying she now feels uncomfortable to be in the house with him however we both work and can’t take time off. (DD is at college DS at Uni)
Can anyone advise of the best way forward here
Many thanks to everyone

It's actually quite scary how so many people are dismissing this. Are these are the mothers who stand by their wife/child-beating sons? The ones who say, "He wasn't like that growing up. He's probably having a breakdown from stress. He was never like this with any other woman. She must have pushed him too far."

ICannotRememberAThing - ''I don’t think violence should be condoned in any situation but ...''

Another but.

No one is condoning the daughters shouting.

They should both apologise. Her for her unacceptable shouting and him for his wholly unacceptable aggressive response.

@ICannotRememberAThing he wont apologise.

They are actually. It’s as if she has done nothing wrong.

@Branleuse The power dynamic is that he is male, stronger, and older. She is afraid of him.

That's all you need to know to understand who has the power. Physically, she is inherently less powerful and more vulnerable. Only in very unusual circumstances (eg a severely disabled man and very fit woman) would this not be the case.

As I said. He should.

Who here has said she has done nothing wrong?

Yes, they do. Men are physically stronger than women and they are privileged over women. In this case he is even a couple of years older than the woman he assaulted (his sister). The power dynamics don't change just because they are not in a romantic relationship.

But he wont apologise. The OP is asking for what to do next.

@ICannotRememberAThing It doesn't matter that she shouted. That's the point. By focusing on that you are victim blaming her. If he had only shouted back then it would be tit for tat and we could discuss equal blame.

But he didn't, did he? He assaulted her. That changes everything, forever.

I find it quite odd when people try and liken family member dynamics between children or siblings to intimate partner violence or stranger attacks.
They dont come from the same power dynamics or for same reason, therefore they are dealt with differently.

@Branleuse

Do you genuinely believe it's less traumatic for a woman being cornered in a bathroom and screamed at in her face by a grown man after haven been violently shoved in the stomach a moment ago because it's her brother doing it?

It doesn't matter who is doing it to whom. An out-of-control man coming at you like that is terrifying!

You can only assume that they will be the ones making excuses for their violent sons.

Let's be honest about it, violent abusive men probably don't suddenly become violent and abusive overnight. It starts somewhere, and if they are taught that it's OK to behave in that way, or that it's understandable because they were provoked, or that it's normal for families to fight a bit, then naturally, that's a lesson that they will carry forward with them.

I will be encouraging my dd to pay close attention to how any future partners treat their siblings and other female relatives.

Exactly, this is how women and children end up getting killed. But even if a violent man doesn't kill, women and children end up traumatized. This has already happened to his poor sister and people are dismissing it and saying they were "both as bad". This world has gone bonkers with apologizing for the horrible behavior of men.

Argh! Just have many more children and women need to get hurt because people want to protect their "precious", violent sons.

He literally is a violent man.

Exactly. And it's worse in the sense that you are likely to have to continue living with them and you know that will be facilitated by people (parents) who have divided loyalty.

He needs to learn that
a) you're not 'allowed' to physically assault someone else for shouting.

b) if he does it to any one else he's going to get reported to the police.

The daughter needs to learn

• that she's safe in her own home.

Sadly none of these things are going to happen.

@LetitiaLeghorn He hit her in the stomach. Terrified her. Followed her. She's afraid to be in the house with him. Frankly it's creepy as hell that you're policing her trauma response to something so upsetting. It's perfectly proportionate that she cried. You're being weird by trying to minimise what he did to her.

You didn't even talk to your ds. Only your dd. Biased much??

Mumwantingtogetitright and CaptSkippy

It's mad isn't it? And so clear how this is how it begins. We learn our life lessons at home. To minimise this is not doing the son any favours.

My brother has also now gone on to to have multiple assault convictions against female partners and is not allowed access to his multiple children.

My DM was always telling me to ‘stop winding him up’.

Why are people calling this A violent assault. Jezus. No wonder women arent believed anymore when they speak up about being abused/assaulted :(

The kid did something wrong yeah. But this wasn't a " violent assault". And no one is 'traumatised' by it. My gosh

Very easy to see from this thread how so many women end up in relationships which are violent.

As daughters they were told THEY were at fault if they were pushed and shoved in the home they grew up in.

Their violent partners had parents like the OP and her husband who accepted being told by their thug of a son that it was "sorted" when they assaulted their sister and refused to explain themselves.

Possibly drugs are involved.

Whatever.

He has assaulted his sister and I have no doubt will assault someone again.

Siblings can roar at each other and piss each other off.

It is not normal behaviour for that to escalate to assault.

But the type of families that accept that are far more likely to have children that will end up in abusive relationships, either being the perpetrator or victim.

It says absolutely everything IMO about how the two children are viewed that the OP would accept him refusing to answer her questions and telling her it is sorted.

I so hope the daughter has supportive friends that she tells about this.

If one of my daughters told me her friend was in this situation, I absolutely would offer her a safe place to stay as her parents priority is clearly their violent son.

Golden child/scapegoat dynamic comes to mind.

How any mother could hear that happened to their daughter and that she was crying on and off all day and be anything other than devastated for her is beyond me.

Accepting "its sorted" from her son just tells me everything.

I've rewritten the salient bit of the OP from another angle

"DH then came out the bathroom shoving me back in the stomach hard shouting/swearing & intimidating me so I at this point was very visibly upset & shaking as it wasn’t like my husband to react on this way and went to the bathroom to which DH then pushed the door open again shouting/swearing in my face."

What would people be advising?

Marvellousmadness - The irony! You yourself are minimising the daughters experience!