Help please - is this "fair"?

[curlywurlyfairy]

A situation has arisen within the family. I am just looking for opinions please on how “fair” (or otherwise) people think the following situation is.

Jenny and Laura are sisters, and their situations are thus:

Jenny has 2 children, one secondary school aged and the other 1 year old. She lives a 2 hour drive away from her parents (DCs’ grandparents), who have never since youngest DC’s birth offered to visit to support with childcare. Jenny suffered severe PND following birth of youngest DC and is still recovering with professional support. She works full time. Her DH works FT, in a non family friendly job with long shifts and unsociable hours, meaning a lot of the childcare falls to Jenny around her own working days. PILs live locally but do not offer any support at all with DC.

Laura has 3 children, a 3 year old and 8 month old twins. She lives a 1 hour drive from her parents, who offer her regular support with childcare. She is mentally far more robust than Jenny. She is still on maternity leave. DH works from home full time with the very occasional night away. PILs and paternal aunties/uncles of DC live locally and offer support with DC.

Is it right that Laura gets more support than Jenny from their parents given her situation? In other words does the relative support offered to each sibling by their parents seem fair given their situations? Or does any of it seem unfair to you?

Any thoughts appreciated.

Final post:

I am not calling anyone on this thread a cunt so don't twist my words.

I said that I am aware that anon posters on the internet can be cunts and that is why I chose from the outset not to post in the first person. For self protective reasons.

I also wanted as unbiased views as possible. Not "let's make the OP the one in the wrong for our own personal entertainment" posts.

Clearer?

That was @MichelleScarn

Jenny don't be hasty.

If you can't speak plainly and directly on an anonymous forum, how can you possibly communicate your needs and fears in the real world?

I communicate just fine in the real world.
Why? Because I don't expect to be laughed at, personally insulted and bullied in the real world.
I know what this place is like, however, and I've seen OPs on this board be torn to shreds. Didn't fancy it myself.

You live 2 hours drive away from your parents. They cannot help you with childcare. Presumably if you both work fulltime you do already have full time childcare? Someone is looking after the baby for you and your DH whilst you both work? Your sister lives an hour's drive away, has 3 babies and doesn't have any childcare as she is still on maternity leave so she probably appreciates the help and it is possible for your parents to help her and not possible for them to help you. When she goes back to work will she be getting childcare and no longer require help?

You should invite them to stay for a long weekend or a week. They could help you in the evenings and weekend of their stay and get to spend time with their gc and with you. You could go out for the evening which might help you feel a little better. It would not be reasonable to let them drive to yours in the mornings regularly to provide your childcare.

Oi, don't treat me like a baby.

In that case, why does Jenny want them to come visit her of an evening?
driving 2 hours there and 2 hours back, after a days work and with the prospect of work the next day - that’s really selfish to even think about.

maybe the GP need some time to themselves.

They can be, but not many (apart from a few repeat offenders) are going to kick a mother down when she’s struggling with PND, a husband that works away and disinterested family.

Again, your previous posts suggest you/Jenny does not communicate just fine in the real world. You have been unable to communicate with your parents how wretched their behaviour is making you feel and how unfair you find their actions. You are stewing on this and it's adding to your feelings of depression.

@curlywurlyfairy - your parents may be people who think a woman with PND just needs to get herself more organised and get out for a walk in the fresh air every day. Some people do not understand mental illness.

Stop visiting.
Stop sending videos.
Start talking about how bad you feel and how difficult everything is for you and how it is impacting your older child.

Try to find a supportive group of people closer to where you live.
This sucks, and sorry your parents have made the choices they have made. Theirs is the loss, but yours is the pain.

@MichelleScarn @CanofCant

You've both just illustrated my point perfectly about the piss taking. This is someone's real life and pain. I hope you both feel really big and clever now.

@mathanxiety
Thank you for your kind and sensitive post

It's lighthearted, unless you are sharing all of this thread with Jenny, how will this affect her?

OP, I've agreed and sympathised with you and offered the opinion (similar to many others) that while it is shit for you, no one is really to blame in this scenario. Many questions have been asked in the attempt to gain further context - as you've been quite vague in parts -and went unanswered which is fine, you don't have to say anything you don't want but it seems like you are determined not to acknowledge that your parents might also be run ragged trying to juggle everything.

You're having a shit time and I'm sorry for that but it sounds like you're not the only one. Your parents are probably at a loss and I know you say you sister claims to be 'robust' but for all you know she might be bluffing. I don't have any answers to this, no one does. It's your life, you say you can't move yet understandably miss your family at such an emotional time in your life. There's no magic answer.

Frankly, if a woman has pnd she is ill. Jenny needs to take a few days off work to reset and her Dh needs to consider how he would support her if she had a broken leg. Is it totally unaffordable that he take time off work? If so, he really needs a different job as he has a family and his children have two parents who owe them care, not just one frazzled unwell mum.
The grandparents are not at fault here. 2 hours is too far. Perhaps they struggle to acknowledge the challenges on WhatsApp because they feel guilty any support is not followed up by ‘so we will be up there this afternoon’ so it’s easier to not acknowledge and pretend it’s not a thing.

I didn’t get any help from my parents when my children were young. I lived three and a half hours from my in-laws and an hour and a half from my parents. My mother in law used to help when she came to stay. My sister had a lot of support from my parents, my dad took her children to school and had them for a sleepover every week. So I get how this feels. What I did though was join a babysitting circle and had supportive friends through NCT coffee groups. I had to get a support network from the local area. I hope things improve for you.

Op yabu. Of course twins and 3yo need more help.
I think the point of depression is that often there isnt a reason to be depressed. You are getting help (childcare during working day etc). But everything still feels rubbish.
Often dc2 dont get gp attention as much.
Our gp hardly see the dc 1 set because of covid the other dont want to drive the 2h round trip and expect us to go to them with 2 kids...
Tbh a lot is often about control. But as you have helpfully gone to them they dont come to you... We find this every time. We went to them in oct and didnt see them till like march. And actually that was still us going to them!
I appreciate you are struggling but i assume its mainly exhaustion and they cant fix that in a short trip.
I did every single night feed for both dc. Yes its truly depressing and not great for your brain. If the sibling is secondary can they watch 1 year old while you bath/nap etc? Many sibs do end up helping out

Also my dsis kids have a good connection with gp from another continent. Gp generally dont see first steps in person. Thats why you are videoing.
If it was emotional support you need then skype would be enough.

I am really sorry you're struggling so much it sounds like a difficult situation to be in. From what you've said it seems like your parents do love you a lot and have been willing to help both of you when you've been close enough. 2 hours does just tip the scale in to being too far, though honestly it normal to see unfairness when your struggling and feel alone.

It sounds like you need a lot more emotional support rather than practical, so maybe scheduling more phone calls and video chats in the evenings when you're alone? You could make it clear your feeling lonely and would like to catch up and have a long chat. I know it's not quite the same but video chats can feel more close
and they can see and interact with the baby a bit more.

Maybe invite them for specific weekends making clear it would mean a lot for you. Spell out exactly what you are feeling and figure out what your family can feasibly do to support you.
Also easier said then done, especially when feeling low, but it would probably help to build friendships locally and maybe access support groups if they exist where you are. Getting out of the house even if it's just for a little walk with you child after work could be an idea? Have you spoken to your doctor about possibly trying antidepressants or accessing therepy?

Also be kind to yourself and know that things will get better.

I've just read OP's posts. A couple of things that stick out:

I don't think it's realistic to expect people to come and visit in the evening if it's a two hour drive. Some people find night driving difficult or more risky and don't want to do it. It would also be a short visit compared to the investment in drive time. Weekend visits at times might be more realistic.

Jenny has a teenager. Surely the teenager can help with a chore or two a day to lighten the load?

If I remember correctly, Jenny is working full time. Would she benefit from cutting that back?

It's understandable not to want to uproot the teenager but sometimes it's necessary to the family situation. Moving closer may help, the GPs have said as much, but an hour closer is still very doable in terms of getting the teenager to visit friends outside school time, so those connections could be kept. Then Jenny is the same distance as Laura. Before such a move make sure the expected help will actually materialise. It's possible that a pattern is established and it would be a shame to move and find nothing changes.

I agree that GPs don't owe help or childcare but why are the maternal GPs having all the expectations to help and paternal GPs off the hook so easily?

Ok. Clearly you are Jenny. Being the youngest perhaps you were used to getting more attention from your parents throughout your life. You sister has had twins and lives much closer to parents thus the parents are helping her much more. Twins are a lot to handle. And you living 2 hours away is a lot longer distance. It actually makes a lot of sense. Your older child can help out at home with your one year old and your husband needs to pitch in.

It seems like you’re isolated. Have you any friends close by? The difficult pregnancy and traumatic birth are now resolved physically but not mentally, and you’re seeing a therapist so that’s good. You need a listening ear, it sounds like your family’s time and attention are taken up with helping your sister’s twins right now. She also has a 3 year old, that is very tough. Even though she may say she’s doing well mentally, you don’t really know.

Because you have been vocal about your fragile mental state, your sister may not feel she can burden you with her own struggles. Twins plus a 3 year old, that is a lot different than a one year old and a much older child who can help out and doesn’t need so much hands on care.

Reach out to your friends, they will rally round you while your parents are busy at this time. You come across as irked that your parents are prioritizing your elder sister for a brief time at her hour of need when you’re used to them always prioritizing you. The time difference too is very significant coupled with fact sister has new twins and a 3 year old who needs constant care too. I would not begrudge her any help she can get right now. Try to enjoy your children and see about going part time. Do you work from home? If so, that is at least a little better than going out to work.

Do grandparents need to see first steps? Feels a little enmeshed to me.

What upsets Jenny most it the sense of family "missing out on" her DC (particularly the youngest) growing up. She yearns to share that with her family more often. She wishes GPs would just come through the door on an evening just to see their grandchild, because they miss them and want to. She wishes they saw all the firsts, like first steps etc. she wants her family to care and want to see their grandchild grow up.

She doesn't want "free childcare". She wants someone to sit and have a cuppa with her and hold her hand or hug her when it's shit and hard. She's lonely and isolated and desperate to share her baby with someone - especially those who are supposed to care and show an interest.

I completely understand this yearning because I feel exactly the same way. But it just isn’t a reasonable expectation when Jenny lives 2 hours from her parents. If Jenny wants that kind of relationship with her children’s grandparents, she’s needs to move closer to them. I get that she feels she can’t because of her eldest’s school, but then she needs to own that decision and accept she needs to try and build a support system where she is. It sounds like she has a very good relationship with her parents, that they love both their daughters are would help if they could (based on the help they give Laura, who is significantly nearer), but that level of involvement from grandparents isn’t a reasonable expectation from 2 hours away.

If someone decides to live 2 hours from their parents, they have to accept having their parents in their life regularly (in terms of visits) is just not a fair expectation. Nothing to do with parents nor caring or wanting to be involved, I’m sure they’d be over the moon if Jenny moved nearer.

I noticed there’s a strange lack of feeling or empathy for your sister who is dealing with 8 month old twins and a three year old at the same time. You could be having lots of video chats with your sister commiserating on the joys and not so joyful problems and challenges of mothering little ones, apart from the what’s app group that includes whole family. That could be a big source of comfort and camaraderie for you especially as you could confide in her your mental health concerns. Is there a reason why you’re not? You’d have to acknowledge what she’s going through and you don’t seem to want to do that. Your sister could be the listening ear you’re looking for. She’s exhausted I’m sure and so are your parents. They can’t physically be there for you right now, they’re too far away and are run ragged with helping with 3 very young grandchildren an hour away from their house. It will be an added burden for them all to feel pressurized by you wanting to be the priority at this very trying time in your sister’s life. Did you see the recent thread by a mother of twins? It is an overwhelming time.

So your parents helped you a lot with your eldest and probably made quite a few sacrifices to (given it sounds like you were a young mum based on your eldest's age and you being the youngest sibling). When you no longer needed them for much childcare you chose to move away taking their grandchild away from them.

You are now pissed off because you chose to have another child with a man who works shifts and is often not around. Instead of being angry that he has made no effort to change this you get angry with your parents because they won't do a 4 hour round trip after work to have a cuppa with you.

You also are jealous of the help your sister gets when she lives much closer and hasn't had their support with her previous child. They are only helping now because of baby twins. Really, it sounds like they have been fair. You got a lot of help with your child (and you only had 1) and now your sister is getting help with her 3.

Because this not a reverse. This a well explained situation with a balanced question and it does not really matter if Jenny is the OP or a sibling, the poster is just a person looking for a balanced answer. The information in the OP is enough, but we have the super sleuths out who miss the whole point which is to 'answer the fucking question asked'...

and @mathanxiety once again a very kind and level headed person, it is true OP some people do not understand mental illness, Jenny should shout louder and maybe they will hear but it is no guarantee.