Page 16 | WIBU to ask why people are so weird about cry it out?

Topgub · 24/05/2022 23:55

@Bambi7

You do you hun

Bambi7 · 24/05/2022 23:56

Ahh he's stopped crying now. Prob realised I'm not going in to sooth him so thinks it's pointless to continue.

That's ok though isn't it. At least he's learnt how to sleep.

Not all CIO methods are ethical.

Floydthebarber · 25/05/2022 00:13

Ah, two strangers arguing on the internet. It will solve all of life's problems.

Original poster

Worried675 · 25/05/2022 01:58

@Bambi7 Do you have children? I get the impression you don't. I am also "educated with a psychology background", like you, but haven't been shouting about it. You strike me as a university student.

OP posts:

InChocolateWeTrust · 25/05/2022 08:02

the fact their cortisol levels raise and don't go down for weeks

This is in fact.... not a fact

Bambi7 · 25/05/2022 08:26

@Worried675

Do you have children? I get the impression you don't. I am also "educated with a psychology background", like you, but haven't been shouting about it. You strike me as a university student.

I love it when the SI supporters get all personal instead instead of giving their educated opinion.

I have children and I don't just have a psychology background like you. I'm an actual therapist.

If you're going to post something helpful don't just come on here and read the last few posts. Read them all, especially if you're going to post such a strong (and wrong) opinion.

It's been personal attack after personal attack from the COI supporters. What does that suggest.

Topgub · 25/05/2022 08:45

What do your personal attacks suggest @Bambi7 ?

Bambi7 · 25/05/2022 08:54

@Topgub

This is just going to keep going on and on with nothing productive to say. I don't want to continue any conversation with you. I find you argumentative, insulting on a personal level and highly irritating. You don't add anything to the conversation. There is nothing educational about what you've been saying for the past 12 hours. My conversation with you ends here.

Keep the thread to what it is.

Why are so people weird about CIO methods. I think the title suggests where this conversation would end up anyway 🤷🏼‍♀️

HelenHywater · 25/05/2022 08:55

I didn't do any sleep training with mine. I was in that rare case you mention below - a single parent with a non-sleeping baby (my youngest didn't sleep through until 18 months), a senior job and older children to parent. It was exhausting. We got through it by co-sleeping. And it's a time that passes.

I grew up in the 70s. I wasn't sleep trained.

Actually I do remember briefly trying shush-pat (I can't remember which book that's from) . That was so stressful! It confused the baby and uspet me.

While I think that everyone makes their own choices, and it's up to them how they parent, my personal view is that sleep training is cruel and too hard on the baby and the parent. Babies don't sleep and our expectations that they do are unrealistic. Most people are lucky enough to have a partner who can and should help them, regardless of their working situation. I also accept that modern day expectations re work, and the lack of family support, don't help with dealing with sleepless nights.

Topgub · 25/05/2022 08:58

@Bambi7

find you argumentative, insulting on a personal level and highly irritating

Oh good!

Rather that than being incapable of understanding the actual premise of the op and what is being discussed.

Tigofigo · 25/05/2022 09:06

Cap89 · 24/05/2022 09:20

We did controlled crying with both of ours. I think this is what most people actually mean when they refer to ‘cry it out’ - I wouldn’t have been able to just let ours cry and cry without going in to check on them. But that being said, our children did cry when we sleep trained. And boy am I an advocate of it.

Until we sleep trained at 6 months, both our children were at a point where they were waking and crying hourly. Sometimes I could just feed them to resettle them, but waking hourly unsurprisingly most of the time they weren’t hungry and so needed rocking back to sleep, which could take an hour at a time. My husband and I were on our knees. Friends suggested sleep training and we gave it a go. Followed Ferber. Yes it wasn’t nice to hear them cry, but with both our children, they went from waking hourly and screaming for much of the night for months, to sleeping 12 hours straight. For both of them it took 2 DAYS. They’ve both slept through since. One is 2.5, the other is 9months. We did it for naps at the same time - I just put my previously contact only napping 9month old into his cot awake, he gave me a big smile, I closed the door and 5 minutes later he’s drifted off.

This was categorically one of the best parenting decisions we made. We became better parents overnight. We had the energy to play and laugh and have fun with our children. Our children sleep well, wake up refreshed, nap well and are happy and healthy. They are not waking multiple times in the night feeling scared and alone and having to cry out for mummy and daddy. Kids who have to do that for years strikes me as much more harmful long term for anxiety etc than 2 nights of tears at 6 months. Our children know we are there if they need us. The second they cry in the day we swoop in with kisses and cuddles. If they cry in the night now, we know there is something actually wrong and are in in a snap with cuddles, medicine or whatever is needed (this might happen once every few months).

So yes, I’ll say it, in my opinion and for our children and family not sleep training would have been the cruel thing to do.

For every family like yours there's probably one like mine where we tried a week of sleep training and it didn't work. After that week we were more broken than ever too as no one had had any sleep and we were all emotionally fraught and felt awful that we'd put our child and ourselves through that for nothing.

Palease · 25/05/2022 09:08

Bambi7 · 24/05/2022 23:07

The poster did refer to CIO.

Sleep training is an umbrella term that refers to a wide range of approaches so I can't comment on each one. It's impossible.

However, i do think the Ferber approach (that's been mentioned a few times) is one of the harsher ones. I'm also aware that some sleep training may consist of camping next to your child's bed and offering a soothing hand to calm them. I'm not saying that is bad.

I'm saying that the CIO which is in the title of the thread is not one I would recommend and will cause attachment issues in the future.

I did not mention CIO but sleeping training, specifically the Ferber method.

I despair that you are a therapist if you think it’s ok to say to people that they’re teaching their child they can’t depend on their parent. Shame on you.

Original poster

Worried675 · 25/05/2022 09:46

Read the last few posts? This is my thread!

I saw that you said you have a DC and that you are s therapist, and I'm just sceptical. You don't communicate like an academic, and the way you speak makes me think you don't have children at all. It's not a personal attack, just an observation. Sometimes people say things online for the purpose of an an argument 🤔, and this was the thought that crossed my mind.

OP posts:

Bambi7 · 25/05/2022 09:57

@Worried675 well you're wrong again 🤷🏼‍♀️

I think you knew what you were starting when you wrote the title of the thread.

It's not really your thread though is it. You started it yes. You're certainly aren't helping it continue in a productive way. I feel you're actively encouraging the insults.

You have to let people who have an opinion on the cry it out method have an opinion without insulting them.

I promise you I do have children and I have the highest taught qualifications.

👋🏼

Original poster

Worried675 · 25/05/2022 10:09

The "highest taught" qualifications? Very academic language, for sure, from someone with a PhD (the "highest taught" qualification).

Your contributions on the thread have been bizarre and contradictory, @Bambi7 but there's no point in arguing with you for that very reason.

I'm not sure what you mean by I "know what I was starting" with this thread? I was referring to sleep training methods that involve crying and people's strong reactions to them, like the original post says? Genuinely interested by the strength of reaction against it considering that there is no solid evidence to suggest that it is damaging. Attachment Theory is that, a theory, and not specific to sleep training.

OP posts:

ShirleyPhallus · 25/05/2022 10:11

Bambi7 · 25/05/2022 09:57

@Worried675 well you're wrong again 🤷🏼‍♀️

I think you knew what you were starting when you wrote the title of the thread.

It's not really your thread though is it. You started it yes. You're certainly aren't helping it continue in a productive way. I feel you're actively encouraging the insults.

You have to let people who have an opinion on the cry it out method have an opinion without insulting them.

I promise you I do have children and I have the highest taught qualifications.

👋🏼

You’re literally the only person on this thread who has misunderstood the OP / didn’t read it properly and thought CIO referred to letting babies cry any time of day or night rather than in the context of sleep training

🤷‍♀️

Original poster

Worried675 · 25/05/2022 10:12

Are you a psychologist or a therapist, @Bambi7?

OP posts:

Original poster

Worried675 · 25/05/2022 10:16

I'm also one of the few people on the thread not to have a strong opinion on this, @Bambi7, so I definitely wouldn't say I'm not letting people have opinions on this. Given that I started the thread, you might say I was actively encouraging the sharing of opinions on the matter 😏.

OP posts:

Bambi7 · 25/05/2022 10:26

@ShirleyPhallus

You’re literally the only person on this thread who has misunderstood the OP / didn’t read it properly and thought CIO referred to letting babies cry any time of day or night rather than in the context of sleep training

In the title the OP said why is everyone so weird about CRY IT OUT.

Sleep training is a loaded phase and different sleep consultants will use different approaches.

OPs title said CRY IT OUT she didn't describe any particular type of sleep training.

*How do you know that people haven't used CIO to let their children just cry themselves to sleep?

The title is general and not specific. I am answering the title of the thread and not specific sleep approaches.*
*
In general I do disagree of the idea of letting your child cry it out. I understand that some people might use methods that include staying with your child in the room and soothing them by rubbing their back but there are a number of different ways of sleep training and I can't comment on every single one. *

I have also said that when a parent is at the end of their tether than leaving the room to emotionally regulate is fine too. Sometimes needs must.

ShirleyPhallus · 25/05/2022 10:27

Bambi7 · 25/05/2022 10:26

@ShirleyPhallus

You’re literally the only person on this thread who has misunderstood the OP / didn’t read it properly and thought CIO referred to letting babies cry any time of day or night rather than in the context of sleep training

In the title the OP said why is everyone so weird about CRY IT OUT.

Sleep training is a loaded phase and different sleep consultants will use different approaches.

OPs title said CRY IT OUT she didn't describe any particular type of sleep training.

*How do you know that people haven't used CIO to let their children just cry themselves to sleep?

The title is general and not specific. I am answering the title of the thread and not specific sleep approaches.*
*
In general I do disagree of the idea of letting your child cry it out. I understand that some people might use methods that include staying with your child in the room and soothing them by rubbing their back but there are a number of different ways of sleep training and I can't comment on every single one. *

I have also said that when a parent is at the end of their tether than leaving the room to emotionally regulate is fine too. Sometimes needs must.

In the OP she talks about it in the context of sleep training. Did you really not read the OP and just answered on the thread title?!

Bambi7 · 25/05/2022 10:28

@Worried675

Given that I started the thread, you might say I was actively encouraging the sharing of opinions on the matter 😏.

You would think that you would want to actively encourage opinions but not all people who start a thread like it when their opinions aren't in line with theirs and you're one of them.

Bambi7 · 25/05/2022 10:31

@ShirleyPhallus

In the OP she talks about it in the context of sleep training. Did you really not read the OP and just answered on the thread title?!

I have read it and it doesn't give much more. In fact now you've mentioned it she says research says. Ok @Worried675 reference this research please and make sure it's plausible.

Bambi7 · 25/05/2022 10:33

This was @Worried675 question:

Enlighten me! Is using cry it out unreasonable? Why/why not?

So anyone...

Bambi7 · 25/05/2022 10:34

By the way if anyone does disagree with @Worried675 she will tell you that she doesn't believe anything you say and will insult you.

Apparently I don't have children.
I'm not qualified.
I don't understand the question.

Anyone...

Topgub · 25/05/2022 10:34

@Bambi7

Its not unreasonable to cio as a method of st, no.

Because its not harmful.