WIBU to ask why people are so weird about cry it out?

[Worried675]

OK, I know already how this is going to go and what views about this are on Mumsnet, but my question I guess is why people are so against cry it out methods? Recent research showed no differences in babies' behaviour/happiness/attachment etc. between cry it out and other sleep training methods. I'm always surprised by how strongly people are against it, especially as anyone born in the 80s or before probably were trained that way.

Enlighten me! Is using cry it out unreasonable? Why/why not?

That is horrendous!!

We did sleep training with my DS, the Ferber method when he was 8 months old. He was waking in the night and crying because he was tired. I couldn’t get him back to sleep as he wasn’t crying for a bottle so I was at a loss as to how to help him get back to sleep. After 2 nights he was sleeping through.

He’s 12 months now. I put him to bed an hour ago, gave him his teddy which he took and then went to sleep without even a grumble. He’s a great sleeper now. Goes down for naps without crying. I feel I’ve helped him learn how to sleep well.

That’s awesome! It’s such a valuable thing to help them get better sleep.

We also used Ferber two years ago, at 6m. He’s slept through every night since (barring a night feed for the first few months). He’s 2.5yr now and loves his bedtime. Goes to sleep within literally seconds at 630pm and sleeps until I get him up for the day at 7am. Best decision I’ve ever made. I’m so, so thankful. It’s like magic.

"I wouldn't leave my husband or mother crying alone, why would I do that to a baby just so I can watch TV or sleep undisturbed? Don't have a baby then." I'm sure that's really helpful for mothers experiencing post natal mental illness aggravated by poor sleep, or afraid of getting into car accidents or hurting the baby accidentally. They clearly aren't just cut out for motherhood (??)

It is amazing but it feels shameful as people are so judgmental about it. IMO the baby is crying because it’s tired, not because it wants it’s Mum. The best way to care for the baby is help it learn how to go to sleep on its own. So those people saying they stop crying because they learn no one is coming are talking nonsense, they stop crying because they learn they can end their anguish at being tired by closing their eyes.

Going against the grain here, but if you are on your knees with exhaustion I see absolutely nothing wrong with letting a baby cry for a little bit - sometimes they will just have a cry before drifting off or when settling themselves back to sleep, etc

A baby who is loved and cared for, not hungry and not wet/dirty will be absolutely fine to cry for a short time - they will not be emotionally traumatised and scarred. Baby will come to no harm and is in no danger. They are safe and warm.

Parents (well mothers cos let’s face it, it’s alway mothers) have needs too and sleep is one of them. No need to feel sad or guilty about it at all!

@Palease

It is amazing but it feels shameful as people are so judgmental about it. IMO the baby is crying because it’s tired, not because it wants it’s Mum. The best way to care for the baby is help it learn how to go to sleep on its own. So those people saying they stop crying because they learn no one is coming are talking nonsense, they stop crying because they learn they can end their anguish at being tired by closing their eyes.

You're talking absolute nonsense! Richard Ferber is trained in physical health with no psychological training. Your baby is learning that you cannot be depended on - the most important developmental work your baby is doing is learning how to trust.

@LuckySantangelo35

Parents (well mothers cos let’s face it, it’s alway mothers) have needs too and sleep is one of them. No need to feel sad or guilty about it at all!

Absolutely. If we need to leave them for a little bit because we are at the end of our tether wIth sleep deprivation then that's ok, we're only human. We're taking about consistent cry it out / sleep training.

How dare you tell me my baby is learning I can’t be depended on. Who do you think you are?

So those who say that not responding immediately is damaging, what about second or subsequent children. I never intentionally left my DC to cry, but with the younger one it did happen when my older (still very young) child needed me more. Example was when my younger DC was 2 weeks old my older DD threw up all over me, just when she started crying. It took me a while to change, clean myself up etc. so I didn't risk passing on any infection. It felt awful hearing a newborn crying hysterically, but I had no option. Most parents have situations like that particularly when the older children are still very young. In larger families this must be a fairly regular occurence. Are you saying that this damages younger children.

@Palease

How dare you tell me my baby is learning I can’t be depended on. Who do you think you are?

An educated one with a psychology background. Your original statement was insulting. I'm telling you that the cry it out method is teaching the child they can't depend on you to nurture them when they're crying. I stand by that statement.

If I saw an adult relative crying I would comfort them physically.

@scoobydo99 you have to read properly what the posts are saying. They're not saying if it's done intermittently (because you have other things going on such as taking care of their siblings). It's consistent letting them cry it out.

You actually have no idea that it’s teaching them that. After 2 nights of the Ferber method my son slept through. I’d say it’s taught him to sleep. He’s not lying there wide awake not crying because he knows I won’t come. He goes to sleep in his cot, on his own without crying and sleeps through.

Why do you feel the need to be so judgmental to other mums who are doing the best for their children and their families?

The research only follows children up to 18 months so makes no comment on the long term impacts of cry it out.

@robinkombucha

An adult wouldn’t be crying cos they’re overtired though would they

@Palease

You actually have no idea that it’s teaching them that. After 2 nights of the Ferber method my son slept through. I’d say it’s taught him to sleep. He’s not lying there wide awake not crying because he knows I won’t come. He goes to sleep in his cot, on his own without crying and sleeps through.

I'm not sure whether I believe that it just took two days. How long did you leave him crying for? I do believe you have got to get that balance and if you're at the end of your tether sleep deprived then maybe it is your better option. No judging here.

I think that sleep training is different for every person. From what I've learnt some may leave their child to cry it out for several hours and some may alway stay by their babies side soothing them by stroking their back so it's impossible to comment on every case.

What I do know if that babies who are left to cry consistently experience stress and their bodies and brains release adrenaline and cortisol which can be harmful to the brain. How about depression in adults. There are so many mental health issues now. Obviously I can't prove that it's all down to the cry it out method without giving you a longitudinal study which would be unheard of anyway.

To conclude what I'm saying I think there are better ways to get a baby to sleep. As I keep staying it a parent is at the end of her tether than it might feel like the only option.

@Bambi7

Why fo you keep calling posters who sleep training child abusers or saying thry are detrimentally affecting their child's development and then back tracking and saying you dont mean ST but actual neglect when you're called out on it being bullshit?

@LuckySantangelo35

An adult wouldn’t be crying cos they’re overtired though would they

You're missing the point. Whether an adult is crying because their over tired or not is irrelevant. You would support them regardless of why they're crying.

Also the baby might be crying for other reasons. How do you know that 💯 of the time it's because their tired. One poster said later after the cry it out method they found out the baby had been in pain.

more anecdata…

sister and I both born in the 1970s. My mum didn’t leave me to CIO, first baby and she didn’t really need to. She did leave my sister to CIO - often and for too long (her own admission now). My sister has always been anxious, low self esteem, and been on anti anxiety meds for years now. My mum does think it’s partly down to her being left to cry as a baby and she really regrets it, she has often said that my sister needed more reassurance but the method of the time was CIO.

i Co slept with both my boys until they were 3 and 5. Knackering at the time but I am so glad now, love those memories of nighttime cuddles and being physically close to the people I love most.

@Topgub

Why fo you keep calling posters who sleep training child abusers or saying thry are detrimentally affecting their child's development and then back tracking and saying you dont mean ST but actual neglect when you're called out on it being bullshit?

I don't really follow what you're saying. I haven't o called people who sleep train child abusers 🙂. I haven't back tracked once either 🙂.

Yes you have @Bambi7

You've repeatedly said it will damage children/babies. But when its pointed out the difference between neglect and St you then say you never meant st in the first place

@LuckySantangelo35 an adult wouldn't be crying cos they're overtired though would they

You should try being a fly on the wall in my house – I cried just this morning because I was overtired! 😂I'm basically just a very tall baby

@Topgub

You've repeatedly said it will damage children/babies. But when its pointed out the difference between neglect and St you then say you never meant st in the first place

No I haven't. I have consistently stood by what I have said. I now know cry is out is basically sleep training so I stand by what I said - leaving a baby to cry it out is neglectful (actually first time I've used the word neglectful though).

I have wanted to add that if done once or twice it's ok. It has to be a pattern of behaviour. If you had read all the posts then you'd know I have said that already.

So you think I’m lying that it only took 2 days? Why would I lie?

Sleep training does not mean continually leaving your baby to cry, like I said, after 2 nights my son was sleeping through and going to sleep without any rocking/shushing etc. Occasionally he’ll cry for a minute when I put him down for sleep or nap but that’s it. He knows how to go to sleep on his own.