WIBU to ask why people are so weird about cry it out?

[Worried675]

OK, I know already how this is going to go and what views about this are on Mumsnet, but my question I guess is why people are so against cry it out methods? Recent research showed no differences in babies' behaviour/happiness/attachment etc. between cry it out and other sleep training methods. I'm always surprised by how strongly people are against it, especially as anyone born in the 80s or before probably were trained that way.

Enlighten me! Is using cry it out unreasonable? Why/why not?

@Worried675

I was definitely referring to the various sleep training methods that involve letting a baby cry. Obviously, I was not referring to just randomly ignoring babies cries! @Bambi7

It's just so general though isn't it because I'm guessing each approach is different 🤷🏼‍♀️

I went by cry it out - you don't say how long for so I have to fill in the gaps.

@ShirleyPhallus

So you came on this thread, misunderstood the OP and didn’t read it properly to see the context it was referring to, gave your expert opinion and argued that what we were all doing was neglectful, but now you’ve understood the OP done a 180 and concluded it’s ok after all.

Absolutely not true at all. Please get your facts right.

I know right? Maybe OP should have used a different term 🙈

They are. It’s in the Op that she was referred to CIO and sleep training methods. You’ve said all along that you were referring to CIO outside of sleep training, and now when asked about sleep training babe concluded that CC is fine.

I still have no idea what she meant by CIO.

I was pressured into it by friends with my ds and it was awful to ignore hours of crying, being sick, shaking etc but eventually it worked. Then when he got ill we had to start all over again and I just couldn't go through it again. I didn't sleep train my dd at all and decided to enjoy it - night time cuddles before she falls asleep are now my favourite time of the day. I don't judge others and I know it doesn't have lasting impact but ignoring someone hysterically crying for you isn't an easy thing to do.

To the various PP's picking on one aspect of my posts. Yes I had short naps every now and then, I never said my lo napped for hourrssss 🥴. Also I'm talking about the early days 0- 6 months, many of us are off work then. He's now 2.5 and I've been back to full time 12.5 hour nursing shifts since he was 9mo so yes I do know what sleep deprivation feels like! He now sleeps through the night and guess what, no leaving him to cry required because he knows how to sleep.

Considering the majority of mothers find it distressing, that shows you in itself how unnatural it is not to respond to your baby or child.

I wouldn't leave my husband or mother crying alone, why would I do that to a baby just so I can watch TV or sleep undisturbed? Don't have a baby then.

@ShirleyPhallus

They are. It’s in the Op that she was referred to CIO and sleep training methods. You’ve said all along that you were referring to CIO outside of sleep training, and now when asked about sleep training babe concluded that CC is fine.

I haven't said once that letting a baby cry it out consistently is ok whether that's sleep training or not.

I stand by what I originally said that I don't agree with letting a baby cry it out. Now there may be several different sleep training methods - which one are we referring to?! If the methods involves consistency letting your child cry it out then I don't agree with it.

I have consistently said that leaving them to cry a few times (so we can emotionally regulate as being a parent is hard) then that's ok too.

If the methods involves consistency letting your child cry it out then I don't agree with it.

<bangs head against wall>

No method of sleep training consistently let’s your child cry it out. Once you do it, if you do it, it takes a few days and that’s that. There is no method of sleep training that consistently leaves your child to cry.

On reflection OP it would have been better to put a type of sleep training and briefly describe it so then people can then critically appraise that particular approach.

@ShirleyPhallus

No method of sleep training consistently let’s your child cry it out. Once you do it, if you do it, it takes a few days and that’s that. There is no method of sleep training that consistently leaves your child to

Bang your head all you like 😂

I will still state from OPs description of cry it out (she doesn't state the process of CIO) that I don't agree with letting children cry it out.

You have to understand @ShirleyPhallus that people who use this approach might consistently leave their child to cry. My exs friends wife did this and I remember describing it to as leaving him to cry and it was heartbreaking but now he doesn't cry for her during the night. Hmm wonder why.

So would this:

I was pressured into it by friends with my ds and it was awful to ignore hours of crying, being sick, shaking etc but eventually it worked.

count as sleep training or not?

If you don’t understand what the process of any sleep training method is then why come on to a thread with your “expert” opinion and argue against it? If someone has put something for discussion it isn’t up to them to educate posters so they can give a random opinion. I would never wander on to threads about alcoholism or something and then give my opinion, all the while misunderstanding what is actually being discussed!

@Fridafever

No method of sleep training consistently let’s your child cry it out. Once you do it, if you do it, it takes a few days and that’s that. There is no method of sleep training that consistently leaves your child to cry.

Why is it called cry it out then?! I think the OP knew what she was doing when she put that in the title. A bit misleading if you're not letting them cry or out don't you think?

It's not something I would ever have done with my DCs for many reasons, but I was born in the 1960s where it was certainly the norm (and my mum certainly did it). It is interesting that there has been a massive increase in anxiety in children and young people (some evidence this is "real" rather than related to increased diagnosis), yet these cohorts would rarely have been exposed to CIO like earlier generations were. I think bandying it around as a cause of long term anxiety with no real proof is probably not helpful (although am obviously not suggesting CIO reduces the risk of anxiety!).

There are many reasons that mood disorders and personality disorders are more common ow than in the 60's

1. We talk about these things and label them more readily

2. There's lots more factors of modern life which mean a baby is less likely to get the bonding and crucial interaction it needs. It's much more common for both parents to work. There's more access to screentime etc. We're often more separated from secondary caregivers eg grandparents.

3. We're generally a lot less willing to allow our kids to take risk than we were generations ago. Kids don't go off for hours on end and climb railway lines etc. This might not seem important but actually it's massive ITO kids developing a sense of self and the feeling of wellbeing that comes with it

4. kids are exposed more and more to unhelpful and antisocial play such as computers and tablets. This is fine in small bursts but many of the 6-12 YOs I know who IMO should absolutely be playing together are so fixated on screentime that they don't know how to play or they see it as 'uncool' to play with their peers.

5. we were all generally more active in the 60s. This has a massive impact on wellbeing

These and lots of other factors mean it's impossible to use how are parents were put to sleep vs how we put our own kids to sleep as any kind of meaningful comparison

The most anxious child I know, a 10yo very much lacking in self-confidence has never experienced sleep-training, has been extremely attachment parented, always been responded to instantly, always co-slept.

But there is a reason for the child being anxious isn't there. They have been exposed to something within their environment to cause this.

Just because you co sleep doesn't mean you're child won't suffer from being anxious in the future - something else could have caused this.

@Ahurricaneofjacarandas - is there actually any evidence for any of those things though? And while maybe fewer (middle class) parents worked they were often less "present". Have seen plenty of theories (many plausible) but not real evidence. What I suppose I'm trying to say is that despite our more child-focussed lives now we are somehow still failing to support our children's mental health.

@scoobydo99

What I suppose I'm trying to say is that despite our more child-focussed lives now we are somehow still failing to support our children's mental health.

Agree with this. I blame some of it on the 'time out' approach. I'm not going to explore this now as that is for another thread!

Everything I do for my DC is for their MH and a lot of the parenting books are not for me!

It often takes longer than a few days. From what I remember of extinction studies 90% of babies are sleeping through within two weeks of training commencing.

@Bambi7 in that case no encouragement to try stuff for themselves, they have no experience of their mum going away and coming back, as they've never been away from her, so not had a chance to build up that confidence. The kid was never ever put down as a baby so there was never any opportunity to experience things on their own - initially for mine this was a few minutes as a small baby, including a bit of grizzling before she went to sleep. And that's just carried on as this kid got bigger.

Most people don't take AP to those extremes, like most people don't, I suspect, go to the full extreme of CIO. Most people's reality is being able to respond immediately to their kid the vast majority of the time, and a few days of a bit of crying isn't going to do any harm.

Ok but that's got nothing to do with the co-sleeping / sleep training.

You can co-sleep and still have an independent child.

Social media has been shown to cause problems for mental health of teenagers.

Lack of responsibility, risk taking and independence from a young age is also shown to cause mental health issues.

So child centred parenting actually causes more problems in some ways - now children no longer play outside with friends with all the risks and benefits involved. They are more likely to be home "safe" behind a screen.