To lie to the midwives/health visitors about sleeping arrangements

[Butitssafe]

My fourth is a week old. Not my first rodeo.
I’ve done all my research and was really pleased that recent advice (ie lullaby trust et al) has changed in terms of not completely de-crying cosleeping and sharing ways in which to do
so safely.
I have decided to sleep with my baby in my bed at night following all this guidance.
However, I know trusts are slow to update policy/change culture etc and I’ve been asked so often about how she is sleeping and been told sharply so many times they ‘can’t recommend and don’t advise’ cosleeping that I decided, before she was born, that I was going to fib and tell them she goes down in her Moses basket (she has one for daytime naps etc) and that’s what I’ve been doing.
aibu?

but surely you can appreciate for some it could
and could be the difference between PND due to extreme exhaustion and a mother who is engaged, alert and… happy

This!
some hvs are supportive but it’s hit or miss. You never know what you’re going to get and having weighed up all the options I just don’t need that conversation. However, part of me thinks we should all admit it, so that hvs have an accurate picture of how unrealistic the safe sleep recommendations are. It annoys me that they just rattle off this info, knowing that people co-sleep because the guidelines don’t physically work for a lot of babies. To be fair the hvs I’ve had, word the information very carefully saying, ‘You’ll be aware of the safe sleep guidance that says…‘ like they know it‘s a tricky one and are merely fulfilling their obligation to tell you.

On another note, has anyone else seen the WHO Infographic which states that as many babies die in cots as from co-sleeping (and the co-sleeping stats include all the unsafe practices and high risk cases)? I also read an article from a scientist arguing that co-sleeping was dangerous and her argument was 48% of deaths occur from co-sleeping babies and I’m thinking, so 52% occur from babies in cots etc….? Why would you even use that statistic to argue against co-sleeping? What an I missing?

@Intrigueddotcom

If that's what they need to tell themselves 🤷‍♀️

The facts remain.

And most bed sharers aren't the last resort at risk of pnd women any way.

They're the oh it's just so natural and beyond actually more safe women.

The fact deniers

@Topgub

If your daughter (if you have one) became a mother and her baby developed colic. It was unbearable and you watched your daughter begin to seriously suffer from extreme exhaustion. But then she began to improve a little, having managed to begin to snatch a few hours sleep. Why? Co sleeping and she was adamant she wanted to continue

What would you do / say out of interest?

@Intrigueddotcom

Why would bedsharing help colic?

Id offer to help look after the baby so she wasn't so tired. Id make sure the babys dad was doing their share.

If she was adamant she wanted to bedshare despite being fully aware of the risks then I wouldnt say anything else

That is good

Sorry your thread has been derailed into a co sleeping debate OP. But it was always going to wasn't it 😅. I also lied to my HV, just couldn't be bothered to have the conversation.
I'd be dead if I wasn't co sleeping. My 5 month old doesn't sleep anywhere but with me, believe me I've tried and my 2 year old wakes at 5.30 without fail 🙃

I work in an area assioated with perinatal mental health and locally we had 2 high profile infant co sleeping deaths. Both incidences had elements of unsafe practice (drugs, alcohol, sofa sleep, over crowding). So we did some research and the incidents of deaths in infants whose parents safely bed shared were vanishingly small and comparable to babies who died of SIDS in their own sleep space.
The stats conflate safe co sleeping with really unsafe practices like falling to sleep on the sofa, unplanned sleeping, alcohol and drugs etc.

But that conclusion is missing nuance. Whilst sleeping separately might be safest, if baby won't do that it's far better to plan to co sleep so that you can ensure you're sticking to the guidelines for safer co sleeping than being so exhausted you accidentally fall asleep with baby on the sofa etc which is much more dangerous, for example.

How would you feel if the midwives HV fibbed and lied to you?

You're a grown woman; this is your life. Own your own decisions without any excuses or apology. I'd expect those other grown-up MW/HVs to do exactly the same in return; calmly state their POV and move on.

@Jaffasnake

The practices described on this thread are far from safe yet people insist they are bed sharing safely.

So I think its a bit of a stretch to suggest thats the best idea.

I dont know what you mean by babies won't do that either. Its not like they can stop you putting them in the cot.

I stand by thinking its a better idea than getting to the point you're so tired that you fall asleep on the sofa with baby, yes. I didnt say it was the ideal. I am fortunate in that DS was content to be put in his cot next to our bed or downstairs during the day without crying, but if he wasn't I would have co slept rather than do cry it out from birth when there are guidelines on how to do it more safely. The mothers welfare is also important, and part of that is getting some sleep- lack of sleep can have big physical and mental effects.

@Jaffasnake

As I've already said, bedsharing isn't the only option to get some sleep and if that's the risk assessment the parents make thats up to them

Bedsharing is still nat safe

@2bazookas my midwives and hv did lie to me. Just a few examples:

The needle's nowhere near you
I can see the head, baby's got lots of black hair - she was bald
I referred you to the endocrine consultant after the TSH wasn't tested for the fourth time - she hadn't, there was no trace of a letter - I paid in the end and the TSH had hit the floor and it was too late to do anything about it.
You'll be more comfortable on your side, now tiny price I to this muscle and it will help the pain. No attempt to obtain my consent for pethidine.
Every woman can successfully breastfeed.
I could go on.
Respectful relationships are mutually honest. My midwives and HV lost any rights to honest answers orneven collaboration from me.

Of course they can’t physically stop you. But they can wake up the second they’re put down in the cot and cry and cry and cry until they’re picked up again. If you haven’t had one that does that then you’re fortunate - my eldest was that type.

We didn’t co-sleep with our eldest, we took it in shifts to stay awake with him asleep on us - my husband first then me - but not everyone can do that and it was absolutely exhausting. And frankly I think it was more unsafe than co-sleeping because we were at a high risk of falling asleep while holding him.

Obviously our other option would have been to let him cry it out in his cot. Get some noise-cancelling headphones or something.

How would you feel if the midwives HV fibbed and lied to you?

About whether they co slept or not? Which is what we are discussing here

could.not.give.a.toss

just a imagine most of them couldn’t really give a Toss either way when it came down to it.

@MissChanandlerBong80

I did have one of those. Didnt bed share

Wasn't ever at risk of falling asleep holding him. I'm not even sure that's a risk?

No need to lie, your health visitor would rather know the truth and advise the safest way to do whatever you are doing. It is personal choice at the end of the day. It's the health visitor's job to try to make sure it is an informed choice.

It’s not a risk?! You mean you think it’s perfectly safe to fall asleep holding them or you were never tired enough to fall asleep holding them?

Its not really a risk to fall asleep holding them.

Bedsharers cant have it both ways.

They can't say that babies aren't at risk in a bed because the adult is always aware where they are/never truly goes into a deep sleep and that babies are at risk if that same adult falls asleep holding them.

Surely the same instinct that keeps babies 'safe' in the bed would kick in and wake you up?

What do you think the actual risk is?

The risk isn't the same for both though, instead of just posting ignorant assumptions there is plenty of research which explains why it is more dangerous to fall asleep on a chair/sofa rather than following the guidelines for safer co sleeping if you were actually bothered.

@Jaffasnake

Why would you be sleeping on a sofa?

You can stop the risk of falling asleep on a sofa by not sleeping on one, seems pretty easy to me.

Telling people its risky to sleep on a sofa with a baby doesn't mean you have to tell them to bedshare instead

And the point remains

Why do bedsharers insist that accidentally falling asleep on a sofa is this huge risk that needs to be avoided by bedsharing (when that's absolutely not the only other option) but refuse to acknowledge that the same risks apply to a bed to a lesser degree? In fact some will even say its impossible to suffocate a baby in a bed. Someone already said it on this thread

Suffication and entrapment are bigger risks on a sofa but they're still a risk in a bed.

The safest place for a baby is its own bare sleep space.

If you're at risk of accidentally falling asleep, make sure you're in a bed that has been prepared for bed sharing and then put the baby back in its own bed when you wake up.

It's like talking to a brick wall, honestly there's absolutely loads online that explains- and has research and stats to back it up, if you were interested rather than just wanted to be goady of course.

@Jaffasnake

I've read tons of research on safe sleep practices

All of it says that the safest place for a baby to sleep is its own bare sleep space

If you have any links to any that says other wise I'd love to see.

You being unable to counter my point that bedsharers contradict themselves when they say that the risk of accidentally falling asleep is worse doesn't make me goady.

It just makes you unable to counter the point

But I'm not prioritising what they know. It doesn't matter to me whether they know that I'm informed or not. I can see why it would matter to them for the purposes of their job, but I'm not here for them. I know I'm informed and follow the lullaby trust's advice so I need hear no more about it.

My HV said "and you don't co-sleep do you" just after he told me I mustn't do other dangerous things like prop a bottle of milk up (I BF). It was very much part of his list of things I shouldn't do. Anyway, I answered no and had to listen to no more about it. No regrets here.

I never said the safest place wasn't their own space, but the reality is that lack of sleep can lead to situations that are even more dangerous than planning to co sleep and following the guidelines- ie dozing off unintentionally whilst on a chair or sofa vs a bed. If you planned to fall asleep on the sofa that's also more risky than in a bed, but then you wouldn't be following the guidelines so is a moot point really. It's not my problem if you cannot grasp what is a simple concept- common sense along with research, statistics proves it is more risky to sleep on a sofa/chair. Not sure why you're arguing this isn't the case when it absolutely is.