The cost of childcare make working difficult!

[Istherehopeforme]

Currently work part time and children go to daycare - 80% of my salary goes on this bill
so very little “ take home pay”. I enjoy my work and need to keep my professional registration up so wouldn’t consider not working despite the lack of financial benefit!
An opportunity in my team has come
up to be full time and as much as I think I’d actually not mind working full time the sums just don’t add up- with full
time daycare rates for one toddler and after schools for older child ( plus full daycare rate for one child in summer rather than after school rate) I’d be taking home £350 a month ! Actually slightly worse off than now .
I mentioned this to a friend today in passing that I was disappointed that will realistically be years before I can advance in work and she went off on one about how I knew I’d need daycare when I planned children, it’s just to be expected and accepted and basically shut me down.
I found this rude considering she and her husband earn double what my household does and her child attends a heavily subsidised daycare due to the area they live in.
Aibu I being unreasonable to be upset at how difficult it is being a working parent ?

We use tax free childcare , have no family option to help, there are no childminders in the area with availability currently so can’t reduce the childcare costs. My partner earns more than me so not worth him reducing hours .

Yanbu and just ignore people who say 'don't have kids if you can't afford them. The system is broken. The cost of living is so high you can't not work but when you do everything goes on childcare. My husband earns a lot more than me but not enough to survive on so there's no option of staying at home, I have £0 left at the end of the month. It does get better when they hit 3 but that's way too late in my opinion and the cut off for help is way to low. I live in the south where rent and mortgages are extremely high so being on a good salary doesn't help. You go back to work after kids to earn zero. Talk about demotivating.

Take the job. Childcare is a short term cost - think of it as an investment in your future career. Remaining in the workforce is much easier than trying to get back into it. Also pensions, pay rises etc.

I really hate the "don't have children if you can't afford them" brigade. Children aren't a bloody luxury item!!!!!!!

The op has 2 DC, hardly a baker's dozen of them ffs.

Op, really try to make it work if you can. Maybe if you think of cost of childcare as payment in advance for the future pay rises and income you will earn earlier than you would part time, and the extra pension you will be entitled to.

You would be worse off financially but you are enabling him to earn 3 times what you do. Costs are not purely financial.

If he leaves you, your career will be in the doldrums because you've put it on the back burner to raise the children you had together to advance his career.

The relationships board is full of women who have made the same decision as you have and then been utterly shafted.

I really hate the comments that the childcare should be coming out of the husband's salary too. It's most often a family pot.
My DH gets paid the equivalent of 3 times what I would if I was full time. It makes no sense for him to work fewer hours for the sake of childcare; we would be worse off! I can guarantee my family is not the only one in that position.

You're missing the point that most of us are making.
We know it's often a family pot but even though that is the case we still see women talking about childcare costs in relation to their salary alone.
This is the only household bill which is spoken about in this way and it because society still sees childcare are women's responsibility.
It results in women thinking it's not worth working because instead of seeing it as a household expense they are viewing it as their expense.

Have you ever heard a man say 'well childcare fees take up 80% of my wage so i'm not sure it's worth me working'?

We know it doesn't change the overall finances but it does change how we view women's roles in relation to childcare.

@riotlady

The woman is often the lower earner because they choose less well paid roles and go part time/give up work and round and round it goes.

Giving up work for a very short term gain shouldn't be the answer.

Also, people often say, oh it makes no sense for my higher earning male oh to try to work more flexibly or to reduce hours so ill just give up my whole wage

🤦‍♀️

I know I will get flamed but you expect childcare to be cheaper and more affordable really. Why should someone else look after your child and earn a pittance just so you can progress in your career. You put your childs safety and well being in their hands but don't want to pay a decent amount for it. As your friend said you knew the situation before you had children so stop complaining

@Lazerbeen

No I meant what did you think society could afford, not you personally.

I dont think reducing spending on health and social care is the answer.

More flexible working, reducing the gender pay gap and subsidising up to 50 % of the costs (means tested) is probably ideal

We could not pay our rent or bills if my DH's salary was reduced. I am the one to work part-time because it is the only option we have. The fact that my family is making a loss by me working is ridiculous, but we are fortunate enough to be able to get by.

Family finances matter. It is awful that women often give up work for this reason, but unfortunately, feeding and sheltering my family right now trumps my personal financial security in the event of a potential (but certainly not imminent or certain) divorce.

The woman is often the lower earner because they choose less well paid roles and go part time/give up work and round and round it goes.

And when you start to look at reasons why ( which i do for a living!) you find that societal expectations around the role of men and women in relation to childcare, work and society as whole, are at the heart of it.

@brookstar

Exactly.

As long as women view themselves as pcg nothing will change.

I totally agree that childcare should cost a lot if we want good quality care. And that childcare staff should be well paid. But childcare has to cost less than the parent earns after tax otherwise it isn’t worth them working. So there’s a ceiling on how much people can realistically spend on childcare. For many people it’s still too expensive and they’re forced out of work.

The other issue is that women need to go out to work nowadays. The divorce rate has shot up so mums can’t afford to sacrifice their earning capacity for a partner who might leave. And the cost of living is so expensive that people need two salaries. It simply isn’t possible any more to have a decent lifestyle with one parent at home. And at the same time the availability of free family childcare is declining as parents work longer and children relocate. So affordable childcare has become a necessity. Yet we still don’t have it. Mums (usually) have to give up their jobs and lose their long term pensions and earning ability. Families live on the breadline trying to either cope on one salary or pay huge childcare bills. It’s terrible either way.

I think YANBU to be upset at the high cost of childcare and the difficulties it creates for families where both parents work. It is hard and it is perfectly understandable that you would want to vent about this to a friend. That said, I would encourage you to view the money you spend on childcare in order to take the fulltime position as an investment in your future earnings. Going fulltime may put you on a better career track that will pay off down the line. Don't lose sight of that, even if it feels like there is not much economic benefit in the here and now. Reframing it this way may help you feel more positive about it as well. x

All the cat's-bum-mouth tartars trilling that you shouldn't have children you can't afford need to say that directly to a widow's face.

The irony @MooseBreath is that, if women don't keep up their working hours when their children are young, their family is unlikely to ever get out of those constrained financial circumstances.

I appreciate it is a balance and that it isn't always possible for the higher earner to cut their hours but it does make sense to view the cost of childcare as an investment in the financial security of the family's future, rather than an unnecessary expense.

Thanks SO MUCH for all the input, it has given me so much to think about. I do rationally in my mind consider the cost from the family pot and not just my bill to pay but as so many say it’s how I view the worth of my job over my husbands etc?
I cannot imagine how I could manage my current job If I was on a lower salary - would have to work nights or weekends . Again reminds me to consider how “ we” would manage and this shouldn’t be my problem solely to consider.
the cost of childcare in my area has risen greatly , when I first tried for a baby 6 years ago it was £45 day ( yes I did enquire !) it is now £68 a day ... my salary has not increased anywhere near that percentage unfortunately, nor my husbands either. thanks for all the thoughts and views, I know so many are in this position and even worse off so thank you for the solidarity for my moan!

Whose pay it is immaterial. It's still that both of you working only adds X to the pot Vs 1 working. I get that.

HOWEVER working for me about more than I earn. So much so that i chose to return to work full after both my kids when I didn't have to.

I feel childcare costs is just something we have to suck up for the benefit of my career so since we can pay our bills regardless I work, go for promotion/ job changes and just ignore it, it's just another household bill.

There has been talk about how having children puts brakes on women's carreers and how working part-time affects your career and pension and how much it all costs since I was a kid in the 70s. It is a constant topic here, so it cannot have come as a surprise.

It will pass. Until then you have to budget carefully and think carefully about the pros and cons of working full-time vs part time etc.
But pp are right: it is not 80% of your income. It comes out of household income. Your children's father (if he's your DH) should contribute too.

Your friend was right. Your husband should be contributing to the childcare bill too.

MN: you're wrong. Of course childcare is expensive! Why didn't you think of that before and get a big job like a property manager or project manger like we all did? I can easily afford childcare and have enough to retire at 47
Also MN: why are there no nurses?

Hah exactly. During lockdown as well MPs and the like were heaping praise on low paid workers who kept the country running- now they're saying they should just get better paid jobs then they wouldn't be struggling financially.

"I mentioned this to a friend today in passing that I was disappointed that will realistically be years before I can advance in work and she went off on one about how I knew I’d need daycare when I planned children, it’s just to be expected and accepted and basically shut me down."

If all of us are going to think this way, no children will be born in this country. YANBU. There must be some reasonable solution to this problem, it's not just the matter of planning carefully. Childcare in the UK is ridiculously expensive.

@brookstar exactly!

I wonder if the women comparing their wage to the cost of childcare are doing so because their husband already handles all the other bills. It wouldn’t be fair if husband paid 100% of the rent/mortgage and other bills and then 50% of childcare on top. A fair split is needed and, in many cases, it may be that the woman takes on paying for childcare. It might also work out that splitting mortgage and childcare is the same amount as childcare only anyway.

We have started sending our daughter to nursery 4 days a week at the moment. Even with tax free childcare, it costs more than our mortgage and that is before we add in a 5th day. I will be starting a better paying job in June that will help, but it will be tough until she starts school (we don’t get 30 hours free childcare in NI). I’m in training though so can’t take a career break, and don’t earn enough to support my husband taking time out. We have family nearby but they can’t help either.

You're right. It's the middle class who get shafted it seems.

I got the free 15 hours a week when I was returning to work after leaving ex (left all my self-employed stuff there and fled)

Then I got the free 30 hours as was working part-time.

I was so, so lucky.