The cost of childcare make working difficult!

[Istherehopeforme]

Currently work part time and children go to daycare - 80% of my salary goes on this bill
so very little “ take home pay”. I enjoy my work and need to keep my professional registration up so wouldn’t consider not working despite the lack of financial benefit!
An opportunity in my team has come
up to be full time and as much as I think I’d actually not mind working full time the sums just don’t add up- with full
time daycare rates for one toddler and after schools for older child ( plus full daycare rate for one child in summer rather than after school rate) I’d be taking home £350 a month ! Actually slightly worse off than now .
I mentioned this to a friend today in passing that I was disappointed that will realistically be years before I can advance in work and she went off on one about how I knew I’d need daycare when I planned children, it’s just to be expected and accepted and basically shut me down.
I found this rude considering she and her husband earn double what my household does and her child attends a heavily subsidised daycare due to the area they live in.
Aibu I being unreasonable to be upset at how difficult it is being a working parent ?

We use tax free childcare , have no family option to help, there are no childminders in the area with availability currently so can’t reduce the childcare costs. My partner earns more than me so not worth him reducing hours .

You shouldn’t have the full childcare cost coming out of your wage but to be paid proportionally by both yours and your partner wages, they are fifty per cent his after all. This will enable you to advance in the workplace and have a a good pension. You just have to grit your teeth for the next few years for the benefit in the future.

Are people really so stupid that they can’t understand how the cost of childcare is weighed against the cost of mum not working and staying at home to do the childcare herself? Fuck off with your “it’s a joint expense” stupidity. You’re just being facetious. Families have to work out their finances as a whole, not as individuals. The family pot is only £350 better off if OP works, and that’s the same no matter whether you regard childcare as a sole or joint expense.

So tedious when people keep saying this.

That's only relevant if the family have separate finances. If they pay all bills from a single pot it makes not a jot of difference to the overall amount that the family have left over.

It's reasonable to calculate the amount that the lower earner will have left after "paying" childcare because this gives a notional comparison on how much better the family will be better off if the lower earning parent does not work. Which is why most people say something like what the OP did.

OP should also remember that she needs to calculate other things such as pension when doing her "is it worth it" calculation.

If there is financial abuse in the relationship, that's a whole other issue, and will not be resolved by suddenly announcing that childcare is a joint expense.

It's roughly about £1k a month usually, not £1.5k.
Where? In London I couldn't find anything cheaper than £1.8K a few years ago, and I was even prepared to move for a cheaper nursery (as I had two with one year gap, so at the same time). Even breakfast/ afterschool club is north of £500 for one now, for two it is like a second mortgage.

What if your husband wasn't in the picture, would you wish you'd worked full time then? I'd do whatever it took to make you happy careerwise.

only 80%?

Yes, I mean 'only'

Our net household income did not increase for the first three years of my returning to work (and this was over 15 years ago)

Maybe the costs haven't risen as sharply in relation to earnings as I thought they had.

And yes you do need to see it as a household expense, not something that is 'your' cost

That might mean your household net income has only risen a bit (or, as for us, did not rise at all). But the family have also bought greater financial security (no longer the risks of having only one earner), better prospects for 3-5 years time, and considerably better long term prospects for the adults if pensions savings are also augmented.

You might have a point if you had both suspended pensions contributions and the household was still working at a loss - something major has to give.

But you're seeing an increase, and that is a good thing on top of the other plusses.

Yes childcare settings should receive more support from the government so they are more affordable and not at the expense of making staff pay even more dire (although they're mainly on min wage anyway so not sure how that's possible). But as no matter what way you swing it, it disproportionately affects women negatively it'll never change.

1.5k here in the south east

redsky but the narrative is important.
While it might not make a difference to the overall financial situation of the family it does make a difference to the family dynamic.

Why should the default position that women are responsible for paying for and organising childcare in order to progress their career while her husband carries on without ever having to consider how to judge childcare and a career?

And to OP: Yes childcare is expensive and it sucks. There are millions of families where one parent (usually the mum) can’t afford to work for five years. The ones who are really fucked are low earning women with high earning partners. Because they don’t earn enough to offset the cost of childcare but they can’t get any support because their partner earns too much. Then he buggers off and leaves her, so it’s a double whammy of losing that time at work then losing his salary too.

This! So bloody tedious to see all these smug little posts of “it’s a joint expense”. Of course it is, but if you’re weighing it up against the other most common viable alternative (lower earning parent stays home) then OBVIOUSLY it makes sense to weigh up that persons wage vs the cost of childcare.

Or he might die.

Anyway I agree. It is important, even if it does all come out of one shared pot.

I agree it is important and says a lot about how a woman's work is viewed compared to a man's.

I heard a report on the news this morning that the government are mooting the idea of the childcare ratio becoming 1:5 for 2 year olds, in England, in line with Scotland. (Its currently 1:4)

I think the purpose was to make childcare more affordable (I didn't hear the first part of the report) although I feel that puts the onus on nursery staff rather than the government themselves.

I didn't mention women in my post. I mentioned a calculation against the salary of the "lower earning parent". Why have you assumed that the default position is that this is the woman? As you have equally assumed that OP organises childcare, which is not something she mentions.

I absolutely agree with this! It is devaluing the womans contribution and achievements when it is spoken about this way. OP herself is saying all those years in uni and this is all I can contribute with after childcare. This is simply untrue and it makes the OP look like she thinks she is a failure when in fact the cost is both of theirs, not just hers. Stuff like that makes women think, why do I even bother working when I don't get financial gain from it, but the in the bigger picture it is so, so important to keep your career going, and look at childcare cost as shared.

Yanbu OP. It's very hard, leads to (usually) women with skills we need being pushed out of the workplace and all stems from a societal choice we simply don't need to make.

And anyone bleating any form of you knew all this when you decided to have kids is invariably being a twat, but especially when their privilege means they don't encounter the worst of it it. Consider getting new friends.

We are very fortunate that my husband works too so even though I only make a few hundred pounds a month now we manage fine.

You need to reframe this. Why would childcare be considered to come out of your wages? It comes out of the whole pot.

Sorry when I had my children there was no subsidy for childcare from the government/tax payer. That only kicked in when they started school. Either pay for childcare and accept the cost or not work and look after your own children.

I'm so tired of these threads insisting there needs to be greater government funding.

I know this is an unpopular opinion but there are choices.

It’s hard I agree but as others have said you need to view it as a total family expense not just yours.

i got pregnant with my first a little younger than I planned and right at the start of my career - I went back to FT when she was 1 and I earned very little ..:then petrol prices went up and at one point i was earning negative!! But always said it was a family bill rather than a my bill. 15 odd years ago tax credits came in and I think we got £50 a month (that was it) and when she was 3 we got I think it was 15 hours (it definitely wasn’t 30) so for 2 years it was very hard financially! But it got easier.

But she is now 19 & I have a younger daughter who is 12. By sticking with work it gave me Choices - which I value!! It meant I could go PT to school hours while my youngest was at school (I worked 30 hours so could do pick ups 3 days a week) I have an established career which gives me the flexibility I need & I have a fairly decent pension.

Also to say it means we can support our daughter at university- the bills never really reduce with children just the name of what’s leaving your bank account!

Why do people think knowing how expensive childcare is in the UK before having DC means nobody has any business complaining about it now?

I know this is an unpopular opinion but there are choices.

And is it fair that these 'choices' disproportionately disadvantage women?

Say it louder for the people in the back. 👏👏

Oh you mean people in lower paid jobs should be priced out of the workplace and face even greater financial struggles, or conversely shouldn't have children at all because they can't afford our ridiculously highly priced childcare? Seems fair, meanwhile plenty of countries have much better systems for early years provision that hasn't bankrupt their countries or caused families to have tonnes of children for the sake of it. A nursery place here even with tax free childcare is the same as a minimum wage full time salary. Thankfully wasn't an issue for us, but how anyone thinks that's decent for women is baffling.