Support thread for those hosting refugees and advice for those thinking about it

[Honeysuckle9]

As per the previous thread this is a thread so we can offer support to each other and also outline the things we should be thinking about before making this leap

It also seems that some officials are not following official lines, so whatever I say could be happening differently elsewhere. Conscripts not on the military register/ without training should only be in supporting roles (say working in arsenals) but there are reports some are sent to the front line.
I’d speculate that in the East it may be more pressured. Also reservists there realistically mean most men- they have national service. It’s not like reserves here, so most men of 27+ have military training and can be sent into active service. It’s young ones that may not

My guest’s students don’t seem to be getting called up so that fits with it not being young men.

Students do less time in military service , and often attached to the university. Also they may not have even started any military training at all if in earlier years. The least useful/ trained men to call up.
A man in his thirties may have completed 18 months military training or more, maybe in a useful role as a medic or something specialised. Some of my cousins between them are a medic, marine, missile defence trained for example and just generally less likely to end up as immediate causalities to deal with compared to students. I guess it’s far more practical to use reservists.

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

Thank you for recognising the difficulties of including outside children into the household when they have been raised with different expectations.
It’s something I’ve thought about a lot and a lot because of what has landed on my plate.

Luckily for everyone involved I have a small bag of tricks when it comes to handling children’s tricky behaviour. Plus I am well supported emotionally. I say ‘luckily’ because without those things we could easily have ended up as one of the many, many hosting arrangements involving children which have broken down for similar reasons.

Now - let’s imagine a world in which childcare is abundant. So abundant it’s almost always completely free. In fact childcare isn’t fully acknowledged as any kind of work because it’s just always there.

Which means that parents can go off to work, or out for coffee, or catch up with friends or with social media – without ever having to plan for how their children will be cared for.

Everyone can just get on with their own lives.

Grandad is always around because it’s a multi-generational household. Or the neighbours are about and the child knows them well too. In fact everyone in the block knows everyone else’s children at least by sight.

Plus there’s generally a gang of kids – older ones too – kicking around somewhere about and so there’s a sort of hierarchy of older ones learning to be in charge and they step in if someone gets seriously hurt.

Any family will take a child into their kitchen and patch them up and give them a biscuit. And if the kids get too crazy and dangerous they’ll be yelled at by the two old nonnas chatting out on their balcony.

There’s limitless care available and children are everyone’s concern.

In those circumstances does it make sense for children to wait nicely for their turn? Or not to push past if they see some fun game they really want a go at?
Children can run off anywhere because everyone knows them round about.
Plus it’s all communal space not any one person’s home - so chucking things about and causing damage are less likely to get you in serious trouble.
There are fewer limits on the fun.

And with a village full of childcare it’s a lot easier for parents to get on with their own lives.

Sounds pretty cool, right?

But the constant chorus from the vast majority of; ‘Wait your turn. Share. Careful of the little ones. Stay where I can see you.’? Well that all just sounds crazy, even neurotic, in this world.

Different situations can mean different expectations for behaviour. Children in different societies are socialised differently. I didn’t say ‘badly socialised’. You did.

It all depends on one's perspective. It’s when we apply our unacknowledged assumptions to another culture that we get into difficulties.

I’ve thought a lot about what is behind the behaviour I’ve seen in our little guest. Some of it is from being scared and out of place in an unfamiliar home, culture and language. Some of it is grief from leaving home, family and friends and leaving dad in danger. Some of it could be down to things she’s seen in her family well before the war (maybe, just a hunch). Some of it is cultural – which doesn’t mean it’s the same for all Ukrainians. Maybe down to class/ income/ education/ living arrangements.

There’s not much mileage in asking mum because she spent the first three months in her bedroom on her phone. Doesn’t know how to play. And looked non-plussed when I told her to supervise her child (who at that time had a known habit of whacking mine).

In the end it doesn’t actually matter what is behind the behaviour. That’s what we have and that’s what we will deal with.

It’s made me appreciate the way in which so many British parents invest their time and energy in constantly coaching young children to queue and say sorry and step aside to let the nice lady get past. Building British culture minute by tedious minute.

The whole effort seems to me now like some quirky edifice. Like the Albert Hall or Holyrood Palace or something. Now that I've become aware of the habit and can see it clearly it looks lovely and a bit mad. And so, so touching.

Our little guest is generally polite and mostly tries to co-operate with adults.

She has spent the Summer spending 9+ hours on her phone each day. She hasn’t been out anywhere bar shopping and to her mum’s cleaning job once a week – unless we’ve taken her along with us that is.

She’s now doing Ukrainian school in the evenings after English school is finished. She cries for the whole hour and a half.

I figure if that's the best time for her to work through her uncomfortable emotions with her mum - then so be it. Kids find a way to get what they need.

But my heart breaks for her.

I feel wrong addressing you as @UltimateFoole after that post- but I wanted to say that’s a really thoughtful and enlightened understanding you’ve reached.

Really good post Ultimate including the reasons different cultures do things differently

Just came across this thread and finding it so helpful to see that others are having the same sort of issues as us, and reading all the thoughts on how to navigate them. We have had a mother and 6yr old with us for 4 months. We have 2 kids 4 and 7. Before she came, she volunteered that they would adopt our mealtimes/bedtimes etc. She was very keen to work, whatever she could do with no English.

It became clear really quickly that she had no control at all over her son, who would ignore her/ hit her/hit us if he was told he couldn't do something/didn't like something that was happening. All made much worse by the fact that she would just go upstairs or outside all the time leaving him with us / unsupervised. We spoke to her about it really carefully a few weeks after they arrived, explaining that we understood that there was so much going on for her and him, more than we could ever imagine (there is another son at home in a dangerous area, too old to leave), but that there had to be some lines and no hitting was one of them (also, no trying to barge in to my child's room when they had said no and were trying to shut the door; also to listen to us if we have told him not to do something that might be dangerous for us/him). She agreed with all that, apologised etc but clearly didn't have any way of dealing with it. After a while longer she broke down and said she didn't know how to control him because her husband did it at home. We have heard through a convoluted route (not her) that that relationship was at least controlling if not abusive and she made no decisions for herself at home. Which made a lot of sense of what was going on - her avoiding him, appeasing him, not knowing how to keep his behavior in check, him being prepared to hit her/us. It is all clearly much more ingrained behaviour than something which has come about from the war this year. She asked for help with dealing with him so we found her some stuff about positive parenting, translated it all for her, got him a sticker reward chart and helped her do that for a couple of weeks to get her started. She and we could see the improvement in his behaviuor and she seemed pleased with it. It is also really clear she is struggling mentally, so we got her an appointment with the mental health nurse who she has seen a couple of times and we assume has arranged at least medication (she was on some before she came, it turns out). We handed over the reward chart to her when we went away, came back to find out she had done nothing with it and basically nothing with him all summer. To be fair, his behaviour hasn't gone back to what it was although neighbours told us that it was worse when we weren't here (him hitting her again etc).

We've had to raise with her several times now the fact that he makes lots of noise in the evenings when or after our kids are going to bed (7.30/8pm). There has been no real attempt to get him on to a normal UK type bedtime like she had said she would (he would be up until 10/10.30, whenever she went to bed). We didn't press her to do that but did say could she please supervise him and keep him quiet (not silent, just not shouting etc) after 7.30. She responded to this by shutting him in his room with an ipad whilst she went outside to smoke which is of course not good for him and actually doesn't stop the noise because he is on his own or runs down stairs shouting out for her. So we raised it again and she explained she could not put in him to bed earlier as that is not when kids from the former USSR go to bed. So we said fine but you need to supervise him then. I've told her she can use the playroom or any of the living spaces rather than keeping him shut in her room but she refuses to do so, I think because she either doesn't want to or doesn't feel able to supervise him in a way that stops him from being loud other than sticking him in front of an ipad and watching him.

It's all just very sad to see. From the beginning she clearly didn't feel able to integrate with us and wanted to live entirely separately (very resistant to ever having shared meals, started early on buying the kind of things you'd get for a flat i.e. cutlery, crockery and clothes airer despite us imploring her to use ours). We've totally respected that and not pushed it, because we can't imagine what she is going through especially with the background of her relationship and can totally see why she would want her own space. But it's really sad for this kid. He eats whatever meals she cooks for him alone (she rarely cooks, it is usually cottage cheese with sugar or something like this for dinner - his diet is atrocious). She never plays with him, never walks next to him down the road.

She is clearly depressed but I think it is more complicated than just that, with a lot of trauma in the background. She isn't working, despite saying she wanted to do anything, so when we were told of opportunities and arranged interviews for her, she did nothing about it. Again, we can understand that there is a mental health issue plus it is a massive change and drop in work from what she was used to so we haven't pushed it at all. She does not offer to do anything to help with household chores at all, so we've asked her to take responsibility for a couple of small things which she is now doing.

We had the 'next steps' conversation with her recently and it turns out her plan is to get us to tell the council we are kicking her out at 6 months (not what we have said, we have said we will host as long as she needs) so that they then step in and find her accommodation. We explained that won't happen (or at least not in a way that is going to be functional for her and a kid at school), which is what she had already been told by the housing officer. But still no progress on looking for somewhere to move to. So we are thinking we will have to help her with that, too.

It all just feels very dysfunctional and its root causes are clearly much more extensive than the war. A ukrainian woman who has helped us out with practicalities at times has been as shocked as us at the parenting or lack of it. Other than the things that directly affect (hitting, noise at bedtimes etc) we have kept our views to ourselves as we don't want her to feel judged in our home and she has clearly felt uncomfortable when we have raised things with her about his behaviour. It's not that she disagrees with us that the behaviour is not ok, but that she doesn't seem able to deal with it. She is pretty clearly feeling uncomfortable and has said she doesn't want to cause us any more inconvenience, but equally isn't able to parent him so as to avoid the issues and doesn't seem able to progress finding herself her own place where she would feel more comfortable.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, just feels really good to get that off my chest to people who will have some idea of what it feels like!

You have my sympathy. I have my own thread about similar challenges!

Omg Star162 what a lot to deal with.
How are you coping yourself? Are you ok?

Thanks, and you have mine! Where have you got to with it?

Thanks, I'm doing fine, just a bit done with the excess emotional bandwith it is taking up and the fact that we seem to have to do pretty much everything to move anything forward! And finding it hugely cathartic to post on a site where people know what these things feel like, rather than talking to (yes, wonderful) friends who with the best will in the world don't know.

And hoping it means I will spend less time talking at my husband about it! We are on the same page about it all, but I am more of a talker than him...

Glad to find this thread. I'm not in the UK but can't find any local discussions. I'm hosting a family of three, Mom, 15yo girl and 10yo boy. After over 4 months I feel so done and no end in sight. They are quiet and nice but they are always here, just lying around on their phones. For the first few months they showed up every meal time expecting me to cook for them. I couldn't even just feed myself when my own kids were in school. It was never reciprocated. The 10yo has zero manners, he just eats and walks off, never says thanks, leaves his plates, yogurts, wrappers wherever he drops them. If he likes something he grabs it all and leaves nothing for others at the table.
The Mom often says he's staying here and goes out, assuming I'll mind him and feed him. She never asked and I wouldn't have agreed. One day she was clearly put out as I had plans with my kids and didn't come home. She was also dropping hints about me collecting him from school one day but I wouldn't take the bait. I have three small kids of my own to mind and collect. She has two adult relatives in a house nearby who can collect hers. None of them have jobs and aren't looking until they learn the local language which could take years (my OH has a job through English which they speak).

They also seem to have no intention of leaving and becoming independent. They like this area and look down their noses at cheaper areas.

They're nice, but very lazy, and I often feel taken advantage of. They have never offered to contribute financially even though their payments are about 400-500 a week here (there's no host payments, but suggested contract that they contribute) and the council never contacted me again or gave any support after we took them in. I have no big issues, but its taking a huge toll on me and my family.

I am sorry you are having these issues.

Do you envisage this being easier if they were to make some changes, 10 year old to behave, they leave the house more etc

I ask this because if you don’t think you can continue even if changes are made , then I suggest is you give them 1- 2 months notice and see what options are available to them in your country.

it doesn’t always work out but you’ve done your best and a good thing

Really sorry to hear this. It sounds like a lot to be dealing with, especially where it must feel like there is no end in sight. The expectation that you will be a cook and childminder for them is so unreasonable, especially when you are giving so much already and have your own family to look after. How are your kids coping?

I can certainly relate to the rudeness of the kids (we are finally getting there with the boy with us and to be fair his mum now pulls him up on thank yous) and the expectation that it is just ok to leave your kids with someone without even asking.

The only thing that has helped with us is being direct with her and explaining what she needs to do i.e. supervise her child, do some small chores etc. They are uncomfortable exchanges and I am sure it makes her feel less comfortable, but we got to the point of asking ourselves why should we be the ones having to feel uncomfortable when what we were expecting was not unreasonable and actually really small. It's been really difficult finding the right balance of what to raise, though. Have you spoken to the mum about it? She doesn't sound very approachable...

I think we really need them to move on but I would prefer if they did it themselves. The Mom wants to learn the language, then look into upgrading her qualifications, THEN look for a job. I think she should be looking now. I think I'll need to have a difficult conversation soon and make it clear we didn't adopt them and this is temporary

So e of these stories are awful. It makes you wonder what the families were told life would be like living with another family. It sounds like a bed and breakfast mentality. There doesn't seem to be a great deal of gratitude for being hosted. It's almost as if they had expectations that the reality hasn't met. I can imagine a lot of hosts probably wouldn't do it again.

I haven't spoken to her. She's actually very nice. But the way she says "I'm going here, X will stay here" drives me mad. He showed up one day after school and she wasn't here so clearly expecting me to let him in and mind him. Maybe it's just a communication thing but she doesn't ask. If she asked I'd say no. It's all really tiny things though mounting up. Maybe she doesn't expect me to "mind" him as she's left him alone before, but she "tells" me she is going and he'll be home. I don't share my plans and just do my own thing because I don't want to have to tell someone when I'm coming and going in my own house

We will not. They're actually a nice and quiet family but theres no end date. I never got a contract from the Council , even though there is one. They social workers didn't even respond to queries I sent. They literally washed their hands of us once we agreed to take them, and no end in sight, no communication about long term solutions, or housing assistance. I believe the government here asked for three month commitment but nothing was done beyond that

@SallyBel The boy being left alone is a cultural thing. In Ukraine this is common place and they have a more ‘raised by a village’ approach to child rearing.

Sallybel, you say you have no big issues but they sound like big issues to me! I think you have been exceptionally tolerant.

Ok that's good to know, because it came across as very cheeky to me, to announce her plans and that he was staying here, so she must be just ok leaving him and not expecting me to drop my plans

We have a child guest and we made it clear before they moved in that the child could not be left alone in the house. We wrote it down. We wouldn’t hesitate to involve social services if the child was being “abandoned” and they’d have to move out.

But I did that because I had read some of the stories on here before they had moved in.

So far, no major issues. I did find myself tiptoeing around the kitchen in the evening while one was on the computer but then I stopped and said, hang on… So I got them a cheap desk for their room and now they have somewhere to go. The trick is to remember whose home it is. And also to remember that while we CHOSE to be hosts, many of them didn’t choose to be guests.

ie If they sometimes seem ungrateful that’s probably why.

They're not really, I am just feeling really petty and need a rant. They're very nice people, very quiet and I do think they try to give us space. The kid has zero manners which is annoying but he's never bold. The teen is absolutely lovely. They don't cause trouble, but it's the small things that become big things in my mind.

I also wonder if from our own wartime history some host families may have had a romanticised idea of what hosting a family who were being evacuated from war might be like, forgetting the cultural and language differences.