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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Support thread for those hosting refugees and advice for those thinking about it

1000 replies

Honeysuckle9 · 19/05/2022 13:31

As per the previous thread this is a thread so we can offer support to each other and also outline the things we should be thinking about before making this leap

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 25/08/2022 22:33

hassletassle · 25/08/2022 20:48

Thanks @MumEeeee ... I'm just a little worried that the hosts that the council have on the books might have changed their mind since they registered (they could have registered months ago). But it's worth a try, it could work. If we don't get a rapid answer on that I'll be asking the council what they are are going to do...

It's very difficult as the little girl has done nothing wrong. I do feel sorry for her. But I'm not her mother, and I must focus on my own children. My guests have had a lot from me. I'd say they've have 12 months worth of support since May!

I think disconnecting yourself from the idea that you can help this girl is one of the hardest bits.

But if a parent isn't willing to parent their own child, you really are limited as to how much you can do, especially when you have your own responsibilities. You cant override them and you can't fill the role they should be taking on.

I think the mantra that you can't save everyone is true here. You can't. They have to want to save themselves. They have to put the effort in, to get the reward back.

You've given this your heart and soul. Don't let it consume you. You don't have to prove yourself to anyone nor justify your position to the council.

Thats the crux of where a portion of these arrangements are going to go wrong: with a host bending over backwards giving heart and soul and a guest whose head is either still thousands of miles away or just finds it easier to sit back and let a generous host do all the driving for them. It's a mismatch in terms of who is putting in the effort. It shouldn't be the host taking the strain of it once you get past the initial phase. That has to shift to the guest. If it doesn't, you get issues.

Don't get yourself into a position where you end up resenting the mum and volunteering for this more than the point you are at now.

DFOD · 25/08/2022 22:57

RedToothBrush · 25/08/2022 22:33

I think disconnecting yourself from the idea that you can help this girl is one of the hardest bits.

But if a parent isn't willing to parent their own child, you really are limited as to how much you can do, especially when you have your own responsibilities. You cant override them and you can't fill the role they should be taking on.

I think the mantra that you can't save everyone is true here. You can't. They have to want to save themselves. They have to put the effort in, to get the reward back.

You've given this your heart and soul. Don't let it consume you. You don't have to prove yourself to anyone nor justify your position to the council.

Thats the crux of where a portion of these arrangements are going to go wrong: with a host bending over backwards giving heart and soul and a guest whose head is either still thousands of miles away or just finds it easier to sit back and let a generous host do all the driving for them. It's a mismatch in terms of who is putting in the effort. It shouldn't be the host taking the strain of it once you get past the initial phase. That has to shift to the guest. If it doesn't, you get issues.

Don't get yourself into a position where you end up resenting the mum and volunteering for this more than the point you are at now.

These are wise words and echo the advice from the refugee agencies which encourage hosts to step back to facilitate independence.

Be careful of the council looking to mediate, drag it out and take advantage of your kind heart. Honesty make the call tomorrow you will feel 100% better. This isn’t an indefinite arrangement - moving on to the next step is a “when” not “if” - it doesn’t have to be 6 months - so why not now.

Once the trust / integrity of the relationship / arrangement has slipped its best if you all part ways swiftly. Don’t let resentment fester because you will suffer and it will end in bad terms which will haunt or disappoint you. Don’t let it get to that. It’s over because it’s gone too far. You’ve done ENOUGH. She will be fine.

RedToothBrush · 25/08/2022 23:10

Once the trust / integrity of the relationship / arrangement has slipped its best if you all part ways swiftly. Don’t let resentment fester because you will suffer and it will end in bad terms which will haunt or disappoint you. Don’t let it get to that. It’s over because it’s gone too far. You’ve done ENOUGH. She will be fine.

This. With bells on.

Aiionwatha · 26/08/2022 10:00

RedToothBrush · 14/08/2022 09:08

Possibly because disillusioned hosts are more vocal than the ones who are happy. Being vocal is releasing that frustration.

But yeah, i think the point was that so many hosts thought they would help someone in dire need, who lost their home etc etc. The reality is, a sizeable percentage of those coming to the uk were not like that at all. In part because of the visa issue blocking and making it too difficult for those in direst need.

What struck me was talking to a Ukrainian who said 'im not going to stick on benefits. Im not going to do whats said on Ukrainian social media'. That stuck with me because clearly it is a thing, whether we want to believe it or not it fits with politically correct thinking. It creates a problem of how do you fix it and how do hosts stuck with someone taking advantage deal with it? So it really does need to be discussed for the sake of those caught out.

There definitely are some who really needed to come and really are making every effort possible, so I hope they aren't treated badly because of it.

But what do you define as "dire need"? My family live in a comparably "safe" part of Western Ukraine, but there are still planes flying overhead, sirens going off every hour, blackouts in the evening and every few weeks there will be a random bomb dropped somewhere in the region. That's about as safe it gets in Ukraine atm. It's not being heavily shelled, but would you define that as safe? Would you say the need of the people living in this safe area isn't grave enough to seek refuge abroad?

Aiionwatha · 26/08/2022 10:02

And if your family and children lived in these conditions, would you say to yourself "our need isn't dire enough. Let's stay here and risk it."

RedToothBrush · 26/08/2022 11:02

The point is that a sizeable number of people need support. And there are limitations to the number that can be supported by others.

If you are in western Ukraine and have a home and job and a social network to support you, is your need to leave the same as someone who is homeless, jobless and has lost everyone around them.

Many hosts thought they would be taking in people who were homeless or indeed had already left Ukraine. They responded to pictures on the TV of people in refugee camps just fleeing.

Its hard to class someone in 'dire need' if after getting their visa they decide to stay in Ukraine for another 6 weeks so they can work their job notice and the kids can finish the school year and they live 20 miles from the Polish border. That's perhaps 'at risk' but not 'dire need' by anyones logic. That's not to take aware from the real risk, but there is a clear difference. The problem is, and part of my original point was, indeed how do you decide who is 'deserving' or undeserving as a host or during a beaucratic process without risking screwing over those are really in dire need? I think locally there were a good few hosts faced with this dilemma but they did decide to give the benefit of the doubt rather than to change their minds and say 'oh your sob story isn't up to scratch'.

The problem here is that if you have left more on your own terms, your reasoning to come to the UK is likely to not just be based on the risk. Its a reality that certainly has come through when I've talk to people. It's about how your life might be better than in even prewar Ukraine because there is a greater element of choice involved or its about dodging conscription (I'm sorry but I fail to understand how someone who is a HGV driver and is working as an HGV driver in the Uk is managing to get a legitimate medical exemption from all service. Especially when one of the biggest problems they are having is with logistics! I personally can NAME three host who have men staying with them who are licensed HGV drivers in their 30s or 40s). And whilst I sympathise with families not wanting their father/husband to serve even in a none front line role, I find it a hard square to circle in terms of the concept of 'dire need'. Two of those HGV drivers had jobs lined up here BEFORE they arrived in the country too.

Its also worth pointing out, that many from the east are still choosing to remain in Ukraine rather than leave despite the threat because they realise the importance of having people around them who understand what they are all going through and having common language. Equally many from the West have realised that they were better off in Ukraine. I know of one lady who returned to ensure she finished the year in employment so she could get her full pension. She had left thinking the war would only last a couple of months. I think we will see more returning as the reality dawns that its more likely to be years and that means that you may have to really commit to living outside the Ukraine on a longer term basis.

This is why you are getting something of a tension between West and Eastern Ukrainians in the UK because of the reasons behind why they have left. The Eastern Ukrainians are recognising that hosts are sacrifing a lot because of their circumstances and feel that many of the western Ukrainians are almost taking advantage of the situation. Especially if they include those who have come amid rumours of a golden land of free housing.

I think its really difficult. And I never suggested otherwise.

But you are getting hosts caught up in this mess and the decisions of other people which they then are finding themselves something at the mercy of, when their guest isn't making or even thinking about a exit plan at the end of 6 months.

MumEeeee · 26/08/2022 13:34

Aiionwatha · 26/08/2022 10:02

And if your family and children lived in these conditions, would you say to yourself "our need isn't dire enough. Let's stay here and risk it."

Before you feel distressed, remember not everyone on here is a host, or has any real experience of fleeing, being in Ukraine or helping people directly. There’s no point in explaining or getting upset with the options of people removed from the situation, or seeking to change them.

My family are also largely in western Ukraine, I’ve already lost two family members in this mess and seen children close to me changed forever. I get what you’re saying, and I think the ‘tension’ is largely stoked and voiced by outside influences for some reason I don’t fully understand. There’s no need to panic Ukraine itself is engaging in suffering competition or that it’s at risk of splitting. Ukrainians are mostly cohesive against the war, rather than each other.

Personally I wouldn’t rise to this, it’s only daily Mail potential fuel.

Thereisnolight · 26/08/2022 15:33

I’ve met a couple of males of fighting age who have left. They didn’t want to be soldiers or fight, kill or be killed. In some cases their official medical or family reason for leaving is definitely dubious - but can you blame them? If they’re caught crossing to border without their permission documents they face 20 years in prison.

Thereisnolight · 26/08/2022 15:34

Crossing the border.

It’s hard for them as other Ukrainians sometimes won’t speak to them.

MumEeeee · 26/08/2022 16:35

Thereisnolight · 26/08/2022 15:34

Crossing the border.

It’s hard for them as other Ukrainians sometimes won’t speak to them.

Those called up have usually already served some time, often older. My uncle is 56 and having to report, he is physically and mentally not ready for it and never dreamed that this stage in life he’d be facing this.

I’m completely supportive of anyone who doesn’t fancy being shot at, I wouldn’t. Especially with minimal equipment against tanks potentially as fodder.

CookieDoughKid · 26/08/2022 17:36

Question about finances regarding utility bills. Our bill will go up by 403% as we are leaving our fixed rate. Im calculating using our price per per kwh or unit charge. In real terms out winter bill from last Jan for 1month was £368 for gas and electricity. This year we can expect this to be about £1400.

I appreciate our bills will be large as we live in a large detached Victorian home and we will manage the cost however, I am now thinking to charge our Ukrainian guests a contribution towards utility bills. They pay for their own food but we pay for everything else including all domestic items like toilet roll and washing powder, water rates.

Seriously though, how's it looking at your end and what arrangements have you made in % terms for contribution from your guests? % is more helpful to me if you can provide or contribution vs utility bills cost. Our 6 months ends next month so it will be timely to do a review with our guests. Thanks in advance.

Fireyflies · 26/08/2022 18:14

You can charge your guests a contribution towards bills. Though most of a gas bill is heating a house, which doesn't really increase much with extras in the house. We're very much considering the £350 a month to be going towards the increased bills as we're not incurring a lot of other costs of having guests. But if you want to help your guests to appreciate the costs of moving out or encourage them to do so then it seems a good idea to ask them to pay a bit from their earnings.

MumEeeee · 26/08/2022 18:18

I hosted extended family (I hadn’t met some though) so a little different but I found the extra work was more of the issue for me than costs. I asked for a direct contribution to housework and a few cooked meals a week as the contribution. The bathroom needed cleaning (far!) more, and a run around with the hoover. Occasionally if things like loo roll ran out I’d ask them to get it. The meals probably cost the same as the extra baths and cooking.

hassletassle · 26/08/2022 18:25

UPDATE - the council sent someone to meet with my guests today, at my home. They discussed options. There are two hosts available (both self contained accommodation apparently ... possibly annexes or holiday let's given up to the scheme?) under the HfU in a nearby town. The town has breakfast clubs, after school clubs, lots of places my guest could find work, childminders, and my guest has some Ukrainian friends there (one with a child the same age). The hosts are, I assume, still wanting to host as my guest has been given their details and and addresses. The council then emailed me to say they expect to have an update for me on Monday. I haven't seen my guest much today but we might catch up tonight. I saw her briefly earlier and she seemed positive about all of this. So basically 🤞🤞🤞🤞

MumEeeee · 26/08/2022 18:35

Happy for you @hassletassle

RedToothBrush · 26/08/2022 19:39

Good luck. Hope it works out for all of you.

WTF475878237NC · 26/08/2022 20:55

We're almost 12 weeks in now so should be getting our host payment asap. We are still paying for all expenses at the moment, largely due to a delay in UC and CB because they didn't let us help and filled it all in wrong. Once they get UC we will be asking them to pay for food and also contribute a percentage towards bills because of how much we spent getting them to the UK, getting items needed for the children and costs since arrival They occupy two rooms and a bathroom we wouldn't heat or power more than once a fortnight plus they eat a large meal about 6am and 10pm on top of the other cooked meals.

www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/what-are-the-price-cap-unit-rates-/#tool

We're going to ask them to pay 80% of the additional cost compared to our usage in kWh this time last year.

DFOD · 26/08/2022 22:40

hassletassle · 26/08/2022 18:25

UPDATE - the council sent someone to meet with my guests today, at my home. They discussed options. There are two hosts available (both self contained accommodation apparently ... possibly annexes or holiday let's given up to the scheme?) under the HfU in a nearby town. The town has breakfast clubs, after school clubs, lots of places my guest could find work, childminders, and my guest has some Ukrainian friends there (one with a child the same age). The hosts are, I assume, still wanting to host as my guest has been given their details and and addresses. The council then emailed me to say they expect to have an update for me on Monday. I haven't seen my guest much today but we might catch up tonight. I saw her briefly earlier and she seemed positive about all of this. So basically 🤞🤞🤞🤞

This looks like a win win for all concerned.
Well done for all you have done to date. I expect she will be delighted with the move and I hope that you feel relieved.

CookieDoughKid · 27/08/2022 15:56

@hassletassle I've been following your posts. Happy that there is a path now for your guests and for you.

@WTF475878237NC and others who replied. Thanks for your feedback. I've now requested a £100 a month from my guests. They are considering it. It will go towards paying for firewood. They aren't claiming UC as the mother doesn't want to go back to work full time (or at all) she's being supported by her husband in Ukraine. I've said to them it would be a good idea if ahe considered working full time now.

Honeysuckle9 · 27/08/2022 20:09

My guest has now left for some rental accommodation which I organised. I barely got a thank you and no card, flowers, chocs …. Anything.
I found the whole experience just bizarre but she wasn’t troublesome, just disconnected really. Friends have had much more positive and also much more negative experiences than me so it really depends.

I wont be doing it again anytime soon, the stress and workload is significant

OP posts:
Tulipomania · 27/08/2022 20:14

Honeysuckle9 That's awful. We got a card & flowers & a nice email after ours returned to Ukraine. I guess there are good and bad mannered folk in every culture.

I know you have done an amazing thing and how challenging it is, and you have helped your guest hugely. She knows it too even if she hasn't been able to articulate it. Flowers

CookieDoughKid · 27/08/2022 22:39

@Honeysuckle9 I'd like to think your guests are too much in shock in having to move on. Or a cloud of numbness and resentment fallen on to your departing guest which has resulted in the lack of gratitude. Im sure in time, they will reflect and remember you. Like parenting, hosting can be a thankless task but it is what it is and you will have helped towards this war effort.

Honeysuckle9 · 28/08/2022 09:03

Thanks. I’m trying not to dwell on it, am just thankful that she has somewhere safe to live (and very heavily subsidised) and I have my house back.

OP posts:
hassletassle · 30/08/2022 07:06

UPDATE TWO - the council have been really trying, but one of the host properties I mentioned earlier turned out to be no longer available (not sure why they didn’t check this first)…. And there is one still available but my guest has rejected it. It’s a self contained two bedroom cottage and it’s lovely … it’s on the sponsorship scheme, so no rent or bills !! but it’s around 1.2 miles away from the town rather than inside the town. The road to walk into the town in a country road with no pavement.

The school is 1.9 miles away and I’ve suggest she enquire about a school bus (here, the rule is 2 miles away from school OR unsafe walking route, and sometimes those not eligible for the free school bus can still get a paid place…) I also suggest to buy a bike so that if she gets a job in the town she can cycle (5-10 minutes). But she rejected it stating she wants to be inside a town. This was around 1730 yesterday so who knows what the council will say this morning!

She was also offered another placement in a village, which she has rejected too, as there are similarly few amenities as there are where I live.

I’m just a bit aghast that she has rejected living in a beautiful 2 bedroom, immaculate cottage free of charge because she would need to cycle for a few mins to get into town (assuming that the school would allow the child to get the school bus….which I don’t think she even looked into).

Note - I've also said that Thursday this week will be the last time I take the child to and from school. So 3 more days then I'm done .

DFOD · 30/08/2022 07:39

hassletassle · 30/08/2022 07:06

UPDATE TWO - the council have been really trying, but one of the host properties I mentioned earlier turned out to be no longer available (not sure why they didn’t check this first)…. And there is one still available but my guest has rejected it. It’s a self contained two bedroom cottage and it’s lovely … it’s on the sponsorship scheme, so no rent or bills !! but it’s around 1.2 miles away from the town rather than inside the town. The road to walk into the town in a country road with no pavement.

The school is 1.9 miles away and I’ve suggest she enquire about a school bus (here, the rule is 2 miles away from school OR unsafe walking route, and sometimes those not eligible for the free school bus can still get a paid place…) I also suggest to buy a bike so that if she gets a job in the town she can cycle (5-10 minutes). But she rejected it stating she wants to be inside a town. This was around 1730 yesterday so who knows what the council will say this morning!

She was also offered another placement in a village, which she has rejected too, as there are similarly few amenities as there are where I live.

I’m just a bit aghast that she has rejected living in a beautiful 2 bedroom, immaculate cottage free of charge because she would need to cycle for a few mins to get into town (assuming that the school would allow the child to get the school bus….which I don’t think she even looked into).

Note - I've also said that Thursday this week will be the last time I take the child to and from school. So 3 more days then I'm done .

Our CC pay for a taxi to school as we live in a rural unsafe walking route.

I hope the council have something more to her pref available soon but I am impressed that she has these options at least…..if not I would be giving a firm leaving date - that might focus her mind.

Nearly there - keep calm, you will have your space and sanity back soon.

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