Support thread for those hosting refugees and advice for those thinking about it

[Honeysuckle9]

As per the previous thread this is a thread so we can offer support to each other and also outline the things we should be thinking about before making this leap

I think there is a dominant Russian force fuelling division too. Their is a wider fear of collapse among some in Russia, the nationalistic behaviour of republics such as Tatarstan and Bashkortostan is a worry. There is a query as to whether they should fight as armies from a republic, with a flag or leaders. The command of the armies has been re-centralised a lot recently (Russian commanders usually can make tactical decisions alone). Nationalism in Ukraine is like the bogey man leading the idea, to be demonised and repressed to show that unity is strong. The idea the East could be sucked ‘back’ is there as part of the wider hammer against instability among the ‘Russian’ national/ tribal or cultural identities. It’s beyond Ukraine.

There is something in goading the divisions between East and West externally and it being a very useful external agenda. There is a lot of anti-western graffiti in the west left by ‘eastern Ukrainians’ for example, but dividing people into factions to fight on their behalf is the oldest tactic. Many though will swallow the nonsense with noodles on their ears and hatred beings to fester. The nosiest voices will see they are heard and see they are seen as the majority, and their agenda is gaining traction. People will be relocated into and out of occupied areas to mix up populations and one of the first things that happens in the school curriculum changes. Ukraine is fighting back the same way removing Russian authors from schools for example.

Its very complex, but I think I’d best describe it as like the British North South divide… with a superpower externally funding troll farms, moving people forcibly over borders and sending in fighters.

I was surprised to discover that I have younger non Russian speaking cousins under 30. It blew my mind when I found my by accident, but it is happening with the younger generation. They aren’t schooled in it and there’s likes stigma of not knowing the ‘city language/ the language of studying/ the language of the elite’ I think. I wasn’t sure though if maybe he simply wasn’t very bright or educated when I found out- put it down to that mostly, but they claim it’s not uncommon.

I am a bit surprised though if she has been in the situation of bombing she’s the same. I also think if it was my child I’d be trying to work through the language that is a language of the country. I know people who don’t speak Ukrainian and it’s not a healthy divide to see at all. Ukraine is a vast country and I hope unity is not damaged further, and that people broaden their worlds enough to remember that.

If your information comes from them, they are exaggerating the situation on the ground quite a bit, which is understandable though. The air raid warning apps work for the whole of the country, I have them on my phone too. And I know very well how many actual air raid sirens are / were there in the west, as that's where most of friends and family are staying at the monebt.

For a 13 year old to wet herself publicly at the sound of language that she likely hears from influencers, celebrities and TV absolutely every day - and I guarantee you that she does, if she has a phone and internet access, you cannot filter out Russian from the Ukrainian content even if you make it a full time job - sounds like a very serious trauma. Or could be that she has been traumatised by her own family who, you know, started to push some hate-filled narratives around the language and scared the kid to this extent.

@forinborin i think it’s pretty insulting that you suggest my guests are exaggerating. I am disengaging with you now as you are being downright insulting.

I think it is absolutely plausible that the younger generation loses fluency in Russian, that is natural and nothing's wrong with it. I don't know anyone under, I don't know, 50, who doesn't speak Ukrainian, east or west, and fluency generally improves the younger they are. There are still some dinosaurs from the Soviet era who refuse to learn Ukrainian, but even those often give up, as the language is very useful in daily life, with all admin and public services in Ukrainian.

I just wanted to offer a view from someone who actually knows how things are on the ground. No intention to offend.

Ah ok. I’m still learning.
My guests’ parents are professionals, yet the children shared not just a bedroom but a bed until their late teens. They were amazed and delighted to have their own bedrooms here. So I thought maybe their city didn’t have good housing or pay their professional people well. They are a lovely family with very modest expectations and a strong work ethic.
The other family, also from the East, are much better off, and also work very hard, but seemed very bitter against western Ukrainians which was what put me off them…the lack of solidarity and the taking sides…One thing they said though which I found interesting was that western Ukrainian nationalists had no more right to try to stop them speaking Russian than Irish nationalists would have to stop Irish people speaking English. Is that a fairly good analogy?

The first family, it would be very unusual for children to share the bed until late teens. As unusual as it would be in the UK.
Western Ukrainian nationalists is a mirror trope to the USSR-loving Easterners, neither really exist in statistically significant numbers outside people's wild imagination. Ireland is usually a good historical analogy to understand Ukrainian situation, but from the language perspective it is more like French/English in Canada, or French/German in Luxembourg or Switzerland. i.e. both languages very widely spoken and understood.

@forinborin Thank you.
I was surprised at the bed sharing - they are fairly well educated so I wouldn’t have thought space would be that much of an issue - but who knows, maybe there is some other reason they lived in a cramped home.
I might have more questions as we go along - good to have you here to ask.

My two (mother and late teen daughter) have a double room and small single between them here but mostly seem to share the double bed. I'm not sure if they would have done back home - not likely as I assume the mother shared with her husband then, so maybe it's a response to being together in a new country, missing home, etc, but it's definitely not taboo or something that seems odd to them to share.

Language divide in Ukraine sounds most like English/Welsh divide in North Wales where both are widely spoken. There is tension between Welsh speakers and Welsh- born English speakers certainly.

Good point about the 13 year old. I hope she's been offered trauma therapy.

The thing is not so much that there is a moral opposition to her not working - but that hosts should not have to accept that they will be Financially responsible for their guests indefinitely. You cannot privately rent on universal credit (at least very unlikely without a number of months rent up front and a guarantor) - and social housing could take up to 2 years. Average one. So 18 months from arrival because they can’t go on the list for 6 months.

The childcare costs are 80% covered by UC. Also entitled to 15-30 hrs free post certain ages. AND there is an allowance of earnings where you still receive UC - so very possible to take work as a cleaner (for example). It might not be what they WANT. But there is no limitless pot of goodwill and money to provide a cushion until children are in high school.

Being a stay at home parent is a wonderful privilege. I would love to be one (I can’t afford it). Unfortunately many other Brits are in the same position. And now, also, many guests are. They need to be aware that taking a job they don’t like for a while will be significantly better for their quality of life than attempting to stay on UC and ending up in hostel accommodation. Because that is the reality.

Just to add to the difficulties- you cannot privately rent on a visa with 2.5 years left (unless you happen to be in an area with a huge number of rentals and desperate landlords- not a city). No landlord want to rent to someone who could become ‘illegal’ whilst renting and face the consequences of renting to illegal immigrants, or who has the potential to return to a non EU country with unchaseable unpaid debt. In areas with plenty of work it’s unrealistic usually.

I would strongly advise hosts in areas where rental is difficult to direct their guests to gumtree/ Facebook groups/ UA church groups etc for house share rentals. I have seen 7 family members do this across 4 properties, there is a good market for it in cities. It’s not perfect, but it’s realistic and renting a few rooms with a bathroom and a shared kitchen is ok if you chose carefully. They will find other Eastern European families renting this way, as well as young single/ couples.

They will most likely waste time chasing their own flat realistically, though if they find one eventually they can move again. They are not settling in the UK as asylum seekers or refugees, it’s a temporary situation and this needs to be kept in mind.

If not in London I’d recommend looking, there are hotels offering not only work but significant recruitment bonuses to those who bring others to work. The pay is good.

@MumEeeee VERY interesting point. Hadn’t thought of that. I might start directing my guest this way also… the problem is she has a four year old daughter. It might make things a little more difficult re: house share?

There are plenty of small families renting this way, particularly Polish and Romanian, who are looking to rent out upstairs or downstairs in a terraced house. The market is fast though. Except to see an ad, go see in that day and decide on the spot in North or East London. They are often taken the same afternoon, and you have to see a few. There are different types of house shares, and actually many even without children are relaxed about a child. My niece rents the huge loft and en-suite with her partner in a terrace like a studio flat, the floor below has a two child family (two rooms and bathroom), downstairs were a couple at the front and a single guy in the back reception room. Some have shared living areas, but theirs is a cheap end rent. I know other few rentals that are simply two families sharing.

How does the house share system work if the guests are not working and are 100% on UC?

This was my early immigrant experience as a young child arriving in this country and similar to my extended family and friends - shared houses like this were with the same ethic group so culturally it was comfortable for the first year or so until family built up some savings and got a foot hold in the job market before moving on to more self contained rental.

Are these informal arrangements? Are there contracts etc and do they comply with HMO legislation? Or is it a sub-let situation?

It’s not one arrangement or one person. Some will be in boroughs with HMO licences, some will be informal sub-lets at the other end of the spectrum. Some will have written contracts, some won’t. It’s a starting point that people have to navigate from within local licensing rules and what is available. In smaller cases it’s simply like taking a lodger in with a family looking to save on the mortgage.
Personally I haven’t met or spoke to a Ukrainian family on 100% UC so I don’t know the answer to that one. But if they were they would need something in writing, though UC does expect house shares- there is an expectation younger people qualify for a shared house rate only. Usually a letter from the landlord or letting agent is accepted in place of a contract, however I’d not presume this and tell a person to speak to their advisor about what proof they are expected to provide.

That’s helpful - wonder if these types of LL are more or less open to 100% UC alongside the perceived risks that you highlighted earlier of residential status and possible unchasable debt?

I am worried that my family are painting themselves into more of a corner than they realise. I am extremely anxious about their next step to independence and have already laid out the timelines, costs, process etc - but they don’t seem concerned - maybe they have a plan (or enough money) to move on as they are/were well paid, wealthy professionals - and are just not telling me.

There’s usually no credit check in shared houses, so no need to discuss income sources- as you don’t have tenant rights. You just leave- they replace you in days without fuss. Notice isn’t usually an issue, like with lodgers it’s informal. For my niece the family in the middle own the property and lodgers can be short or long term. I think downstairs isn’t rented in winter they say. My cousins rent in a house of working males who can be replaced and pay a room rate to a landlord who I’m sure makes such good money (700-900 a room pm) it’s why he doesn’t seek much information.

Sometimes people are strange about plans. I was worrying after my niece and her husband had stayed nearly 3 months about getting my house back, really stressed with people on sofas in the only living area and an already busy house. She just announced she had a job and room one day and went from being the house ghost, always there hovering never going out, to full time work and moving within days. I was thinking she has agoraphobia in all seriousness.

My cousin arrived on a Monday night at 2am and started work and moved out on Wednesday morning! After arriving with no plan. Hopefully your guests hit that moment, or are looking but proud about it or something…

Seems that they would need to have an income by working then or have alternative access to cash/savings for a house share if they are on UC as it seems many are not set up for UC paying rent?

I have stopped asking how the job hunting is going as I just get vague drivel and it’s humiliating to be lied to in your own home. I probably just need to respect their choices.

However there is definitely no job searching activity going on between any of them - just sunbathing in the garden, day trips and cooking elaborate meals and baking lovely cakes and bread.

Even the day trips are less now - probably winding down as they are off home for a fortnight on Tuesday. Maybe they will make decisions after that.

Unless there’s a special reason I don’t know of they receive UC directly, and use it to pay the rent in anyway that’s needed.

Regarding baking, after last Easter I don’t think I’ll ever want to eat other Paska in my life. I see them and still cross

@DFOD similar situation here re: job searching. I make a point out of not asking - but only last week set a timeline. I’ve essentially said if it looks like there is realistic job searching going on in September October (months 5 and 6) then our guests can continue to stay whilst they secure a job and raise the money for a rental. If not - I am unwilling/unable to be a financial cushion for the longer term and so will be asking them to leave.

I spoke to the council about this (our support worker). They have been relatively helpful and are setting up individual meetings with our guest and with us to see if any support/advice is required on either end. I’ll let you know how that goes!