Support thread for those hosting refugees and advice for those thinking about it

[Honeysuckle9]

As per the previous thread this is a thread so we can offer support to each other and also outline the things we should be thinking about before making this leap

Thanks for your reply MumEeee.

For info: My council housing office has replied to say they will put up a private rental deposit for my guests if they feel the accomodation is suitable. They can also join the housing register but will not be prioritised over anyone else with children or at risk. One of the guests we have does not have children so I'm unclear whether they could all stay together if in social housing.

At the moment my guests are still saying they intend to return to the Ukraine (based on the belief the invasion will have ended). I will revisit this with them in the coming weeks.

Did anybody else receive a letter from Lord Harrington this morning on lovely thick paper, thanking us for hosting and recognising that the war has gone on for longer than expected…… No why on earth would they be sending this out now I wonder!

@@MumEeeee On the whole I have found your contributions supportive. Your attempt to clarify the unique legal status was helpful.

However the following statement felt patronising, minimising, harsh and “off” to me:

*“The solution to a massive extent is:

stop getting so emotionally involved beyond what’s necessary. Take practical steps to end the relationship if it’s abused or a concern. beyond your house isn’t your worry, disengage emotionally from theoretical worries

stop getting angry at ‘Ukrainians’ or abusing the system. You can pick a race or nation from anywhere and do this.

stop acting like the kgb informant and don’t take the burden of a duty reporting people to the state and let the system do its job. They won’t be able to either show at appointments to claim or provide income or something, it’s probably not even much faster chasing after the and checking. It’s stressful and pointless ultimately, makes no difference really to anyone. For all you know they could take a massive loan and return home never to pay it. It’s out of your control, accept it as unlikely and forget.”*

The solution is NOT to ignore potential benefit fraud under your nose in your own home - everyone is actively encouraged to report any suspected situations by the Government at all times whatever a claimants status. See link below.

Ensuring the integrity of the system relies on the general public to be vigilant in all areas of the criminal justice system

Your suggestion to turn a blind eye is morally and socially wrong and alongside the unsympathetic and dogmatic telling others to cope by “emotionally disengaging” from the suspect activities / motives of 3 adults in your house 24/7 for 6 months is ridiculous, unrealistic and insensitive.

I will not be told to “accept it is unlikely and forget about it” - I don’t see this as a “burden” as you suggest but my duty in fact to all of the minimum wage grafters slogging their guts out to pay taxes to fund this system (who include many Ukrainian refugees).

Spare a thought for hosts for whom it has gone badly wrong. There is a stigma to this - which I have mentioned previously (and was told didn't exist). There are hosts who have had a very rough ride and its affected them psychologically pretty badly. These are people who have often gone above and beyond. They aren't naive. They aren't horrible people. I know one who currently on medication. Its absoluetely vital that it is allowed for people to speak about their experiences honestly - good or bad. It needs to be without being put down or told that they haven't done enough / understood the cultural issues / blah blah blah. There isn't any support for hosts who have had it all go tits up. And they are being judged and treated badly for being forced into an untenable position. Its essential that hosts feel able to consider their own mental health and the well being of their family WITHOUT the guilt and without the 'but they've been through an awful experience, you should think about how terrible/difficult it is for x, y or z reason'. That only compells struggling hosts to continue to a point which is way beyond what they should tolerate. Hosts need to be able to spell out their boundaries and feel confident enough to assert themselves if being abused / taken financial advantage of. No amount of cultural shock justifies some things. I am fully expecting a huge carcrash with hosts burning out. That has implications in various ways.

If you've had bad experiences over people complaining about 'special treatment', then you shouldn't take it out on others who have gone out of their way to actually help. You need to step back and consider the context here and why thats happening. Thats partly down to real hardship of Brits. In addition to that a fair amount of your beef should be actively directed at the minority of Ukrainians who are taking advantage rather than having a whinge to hosts about 'not understanding'. I certainly can understand resentment building towards Ukrainians who are getting certain things that Brits struggling on minimum wage aren't getting given the cost of living crisis. Thats not something you can ignore, and in some respects its actually fair comment given whats about to unfold. This is where the attitude of some Ukrainians is going to massively affect all Ukrainians. This is something that the Ukrainian community and diaspora need to be addressing internally massively. Its not a problem that can be ignored.

Across the board this country - and Europe - is heading for a winter of real anger and resentment. Ukrainians all need the foresight and wherewithal to put themselves into a position as much as possible so support for the war continues, otherwise they will lose even more. Every Ukrainian has a serious role as an ambassador for their country whether they like it or not. And yes that does include doing everything to not take advantage of those who have actively gone out of their way to support. Lose the patience and support of those who have gone above and beyond and I dread to think what the mindset of others will be like. They have to 'act defensively' now because this is another front in the war. One thats going to be as important as the battlefield front in the coming months. Thats bloody hard, but thats the way it is. Some hosts can definitely see this incoming and are worried both for their guests and their hosts. Again in multiple ways.

Its a cold hard reality being a refugee (sorry not a refugee - being on a humanitarian visa). You don't get luxuries. You have to work hard and make every effort to make it work. Even if you hate it or don't want to be somewhere. Because thats the reality. Its about a loss of choices.

Brits who have big enough houses to help Ukrainians are going to be above average in terms of finances generally speaking, but the drain of it all, will wear thin if guests are not getting there is in effect an unspoken social contract in play here and an actual contract with UC. Yes the rental market is dreadful - but its not dreadful everywhere. Certainly around here you can get somewhere affordable and it has one of the better rental markets in the country in terms of availability (the council has been particularly good over social housing over the last 20 years so there is more than in other places which has taken the pressure off the private rental market). Yet I know of Ukrainians who are unwilling to even consider looking. The local refugee council worker has been running 'what next' advice sessions for a few weeks now - in part as a response due to a few local relationships having broken down for various reasons fairly recently. Yet they aren't being used by a number of Ukrainians who are able to attend, much to the frustation of hosts. It really fucking worries me.

We have a very large community who have moved here when compared to the size of our local area. So much so, that I think in terms of numbers I think 1 in every 50 households have taken someone in. Most of the kids have managed to get into the local high school but it is taking the school over its normal maximum numbers by quite a bit. Its had to take on a full time Ukrainian English teacher and they are running a special programme for them. I think there's probably about 20 - 30 teenagers here now. I know next year's Year 10 has about 10 alone (although some of these may be kids who should be year 11). I think my son's primary school now has about 6 or 7 or so Ukrainian kids. Its one of 5 primaries. Its a HUGE deal here.

Locally we have loads of services being put on just for Ukrainians. Which are very much needed. Other groups (things such as football clubs) are waiving fees which they wouldn't normally do. The community is very supportive and understanding and I largely don't expect this to change because of the nature of the area. However I do know that this will grate with some locals who have been really struggling over the last couple of years and don't have the opportunities being offered to Ukrainians so some resentment is an inevitability because this tension between long term locals who are forced to move out due to high housing prices and people moving up from long has been long standing. The arrival of the Ukrainians just adds another dimension to it. And unfortunately the very liberal nature of the area also means there is often different mindset between those actually hosting and dealing with the reality and those who are armchair Ukrainian activists who still maintain the rose tinted specs. This does also leave hosts who have been taken for a ride are also exposed to hostility. There are a huge number of opportunities here that aren't on offer elsewhere to Ukrainians. Its a good place to have landed because there are basic jobs available that locals won't take. They aren't great jobs but they are still jobs and don't require great english. But the numbers also mean there are more opportunities for there to be Ukrainians who are dicks here and to be aware of them. It gets amplified.

Its deeply deeply complex. But we need to be honest and upfront about it. Ukrainians NEED to have a can do mentality for their own sake - both personally and on a national level. This CAN NOT be sanitised or played down. Hosts are getting frustrated in a number of cases, because they are well aware of this - its not always purely about their own personal set of circumstances. Its about understanding that Ukrainians need to be seen to be making an effort and need to make friends. Making friends, helps to protect them from whatever is around the corner. They can be Ukrainian or British.

I've been on MN a long time. I tend to see the incoming political waves before others. I am honest and blunt about it, because its important to prepare for them in various ways. This winter is going to be the bleakest in my lifetime, and thats immediately after a bunch of pretty shitty ones for various reasons. No one can afford the luxury of not taking it seriously.

Constant excuse making, is going to wear very thin and won't wash at all in a few months in some quarters. Its partly why I'm upfront about it. And partly because I'm seeing the effect its had on some hosts.

I guess I’ve disconnected for two reason emotionally a lot

• one I was simply going a bit mad at one stage over things I can’t control


• two my person experience and area is different it sounds. Plenty here with a building business and claiming, or pretending they don’t have a partner etc for benefits. I’m a bit numb to benefit fraud and if I tried to chase them all it would both consume me and probably backfire.

Ive also spent most my life in house share situations. Either when young a family upstairs and one downstairs. Or extended family staying, students… I’m maybe a bit harder than someone else. That’s me I guess, protective I think.

I can see though @DFOD how for others the advice for me wouldn’t apply, we’re in differently boats. Maybe for someone else

@RedToothBrush bravo! 👏 great post

as I have said In this thread, my guests are great and have a good work ethic and saving every penny. They don’t think anyone owes them anything and they are doing all they can, financially, to get themselves ready for the next steps to move

I enjoy being able to have a relatively lighthearted moan on here about some of the day to day niggles (nothing major, just things like I wish they would help around the house more but nothing deal breaking). It’s healthy for hosts to have a place to complain about big or small things. I also resent the fact the hosts didn’t know what they were getting into; I would say most hosts did know. It’s the lack of support from government and council that’s been a major problem

I have guilt that I want them to move out in oct. That’s the end of the 6 months and , despite it all being very harmonious here in the house, I want my home back. There is little to no help from
the council with this process. They will get a rent deposit and first month paid by the council but no guarantor. No guarantor = unlikely they will be accepted by a landlord 🤷‍♀️ I don’t want to see them shoved into some awful hostel ; they are my friends for life. But I also don’t want to do more than 6 months of hosting. At the same time, I don’t believe the council should have a big responsibility to house them above other local families; I’m dead against that idea. So I think they are definitely going to end up in a hostel? And it will all be last minute cos the council will wait until I actually ‘kick’ them out before offering them some kind of temp accommodation;but I also know this is no different to local British families who are waiting for help.

i want my home back though

I too received this and my first thought was 'How much fucking money has that cost that could have gone to support refugees?'
An email would have sufficed, they're obviously panicking about hitting the six month mark. And frankly so am I, we are hosting three lovely girls who have all found work but they definitely fall more into the category of economic refugees and we'd like our house back at the end of 6 months and definitely by 9.

“I’m a bit numb to benefit fraud and if I tried to chase them all it would both consume me and probably backfire.”

Wow - just - Wow.

More whataboutery and minimising.

Can’t you see that these types and your apathy will sink us all?

Let me help you out - couple of anonymous clicks is your only responsibility.

www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

The ones I suspect?
The ones with proof?
Should I stake out houses? Question kids?

Those living in big enough houses to home refugees are more likely than average to be higher rate tax payers or were higher rate tax payers.

This also means that they are net contributors to the tax system. And as such they are more likely to be less tolerant of benefit fraud, because they have always taken financial responsibility for themselves and thats their mentality. They are also much less likely to have claimed benefits.

Feeling 'a bit numb to benefit fraud' is an appalling attitude. It robbing those who do pay in. The fact you don't see a moral responsibility to report it, but do see a moral responsibility to go on about hosts not understanding cultural differences says a lot tbh. Saying that people don't connect to it being money they've put into the system isn't an adequate response. Its not 'fatigued'. Its a deliberate, conscious choice to abdicate responsibility to the wider society you are part of. Yet you are upset when parts of this wider society are backlashing against Ukrainians. Join the dots.

@RedToothBrush I have found most of your posts insightful on this thread but disappointed that at times when you were IMHO disproportionately reactive and harsh with personal attacks that it derailed from its original intention. Having said that I would like to thank you for the following paragraph which resonates so clearly with my personal situation and which I was unable to articulate - so thank you for the clarity and giving me a heads up that I am at the end of my tether.

*”There are hosts who have had a very rough ride and its affected them psychologically pretty badly.

These are people who have often gone above and beyond.

They aren't naive.

They aren't horrible people.

I know one who currently on medication. Its absoluetely vital that it is allowed for people to speak about their experiences honestly - good or bad.

It needs to be without being put down or told that they haven't done enough / understood the cultural issues / blah blah blah.

There isn't any support for hosts who have had it all go tits up.

And they are being judged and treated badly for being forced into an untenable position.

Its essential that hosts feel able to consider their own mental health and the well being of their family WITHOUT the guilt and without the 'but they've been through an awful experience, you should think about how terrible/difficult it is for x, y or z reason'. That only compells struggling hosts to continue to a point which is way beyond what they should tolerate.

Hosts need to be able to spell out their boundaries and feel confident enough to assert themselves if being abused / taken financial advantage of. No amount of cultural shock justifies some things. I am fully expecting a huge carcrash with hosts burning out.”*

More obfuscation and now mockery - starting to look like an apologist for fraudsters.

Do you not hold yourself accountable to report issues on the basis of civic duty?

Why mockery? I really don’t get your perception as it isn’t. I’m just saying -different experiences. No more.

@RedToothBrush - I think that these paragraphs are incredibly important:

*“This is where the attitude of some Ukrainians is going to massively affect all Ukrainians.

This is something that the Ukrainian community and diaspora need to be addressing internally massively. Its not a problem that can be ignored.

In addition to that a fair amount of your beef should be actively directed at the minority of Ukrainians who are taking advantage rather than having a whinge to hosts about 'not understanding'.

Every Ukrainian has a serious role as an ambassador for their country whether they like it or not.

And yes that does include doing everything to not take advantage of those who have actively gone out of their way to support.

Lose the patience and support of those who have gone above and beyond and I dread to think what the mindset of others will be like.”*

I think that responsible community members should step up and step in when other members cause issues - not even for the benefit of the host but for the longer term benefit of the reputation of their own community.

Turning a blind eye and passively accepting poor behaviour / benefit fraud within a community is negligent.

Blimey this has all gone a bit wonky!

can we get back to moaning about saucepans in fridges and the lack of washing their bedding 😳

Plenty of bedding washing going on here today. My guest had some sort of bites on her arms, which I suspect were from mosquitoes or ants in the garden. But she was convinced they were bed bugs from bedding and has washed everything, even the duvet at 90 degrees and sprayed the entire room with insecticide. There were no bedbugs - we didn't find any, only one single pinprick sized mite of some sort, but she was very anxious about it. I'm hoping whatever was biting her stays away tonight!

We have had a chat about their imminent return to Ukraine. My lady is being very responsible about it - she has notified the schools and council that the children won't be taking up their new school places in September and has also told UC they are leaving. She is also emailing her council case-worker to ask how to be taken off the NHS list (her kids have been invited for vaccines) although I told her she just needed to notify the GP surgery directly.

She asked me for scales yesterday as she wants to send some stuff back that they can't carry on the plane. A PP has made me a bit anxious about all the toys they have been given by kind members of the community perhaps going back with them, although most of them are rubbish & the kids have barely played with them. Still it will save me the hassle of re-donating to other refugees.

I just wish she talked to me a bit more. I have to prise stuff out of her, everything is on a need to know basis with her ... we have tried to do some really nice things with them and she is appreciative, but still.

That’s good to be reassured that she is being responsible about schools / healthcare etc.

I agree not knowing what’s happening is difficult. In my case - I feel I am prying if I even ask Qs and then get wound up with the vague and inconsistent answers.

I asked one of mine breezily about job applications - she said she had applied to 50 - she mentioned hotel chains I followed up with “0h which ones” - and she couldn’t remember the names of any…….

I am hoping mine will go back (if they feel safe) - they are from an area physically unaffected.

If this was their plan all along I wonder if their holiday home in September they will stay there then or will they come back here and only return at the end of their 6 months? I would imagine flights are expensive to keep to-ing and fro-ing. They all have still parents there and two have husbands who never left. I would imagine that many of their friends have also returned and life is getting back to a “new normal”. It’s also weird than mine have not engaged with the local Ukrainian refugee community hear at all (I know many more families due to my volunteering) maybe it’s because they don’t have children and have each other? I also suspect they see themselves as socially and economically superior and have no need to make connections whilst here. Maybe these are all clues that they are not staying long term? Maybe I would have coped with this better if they had said we are not going to
work because we are going to go back - rather than say we plan to get stuck in but do nothing about it.

I think that responsible community members should step up and step in when other members cause issues - not even for the benefit of the host but for the longer term benefit of the reputation of their own community.
I am interested in this, as I am a member of the diaspora, hopefully seen as reputable and responsible. But it is a modern society, we don't really have a council of elders to issue judgment... How do you think this stepping up should look? I am a single parent, working 50-60 hour weeks, an additional rate taxpayer before anyone jumps to attack me for coming here to freeload. So I have maybe around 2 hours free per week, and I want to use them to step up to ease the burden for hosts (honestly), what do I do? Actual question. What would you do if you have heard of some British expats in, say, Spain misbehaving or abusing local support systems, how would you approach a task of re-educating your compatriots?

If I was in that ex-pat community and had a strong suspicion of fraud I would be a responsible citizen and report it.

Or if in a similar position to PP who had the opportunity to delete content on SM encouraging widespread abuse of benefit systems I would do exactly that.

I wouldn’t turn a blind eye and effectively condone fraud which is funded by the sweat of minimum wage workers.

I would also encourage community groups to employ nudge theory and actively promote and celebrate the achievements of the diaspora to contrast and give the implicit message about the strong and honest work ethic that the community carries.

The Ukrainian community are hugely networked both on and offline in order to cope with this crisis and individuals could / should take any opportunity to reflect back all of the achievements their people have made over this time and be explicit when things are not. Of course there will be wrong ‘uns everywhere and as individuals we will have no impact on the hard core but we all have significant influence with our voice and our actions which we could and should use.

So how well does this community nudge theory work on the native British population then? All unemployed single mothers with kids (the situation that most Ukrainian refugees are in) have been shamed into workhouses yet, no longer drinking the blood of min wage workers?
If not, could there maybe be other structural factors at play rather than individual work shyness?

For me the analogy would read

‘imagine you moved from Cardiff to Spain as a teen. You finished schooling there. There was no church or British community centre in easy travel so you went to local groups. You didn’t travel to Britain to keep your passport as you could travel on a Spanish one and it was safer for various reasons anyway. After a while you spoke in your sleep in Spanish and raised Spanish speaking children. Not many people in your area spoke English and Spanish became a more dominant language, no other family were close to you to talk to the children either so you let them speak Spanish after a while. It was a lovely international community and this was fairly normal.

Over 20 years later there was an influx of people from Birmingham and London. They were young, on social media and confident. Not looking for middle aged advice particularly ‘

Suddenly everyone wants to know about your community and how you will deal with it. You go from ‘where’s that country’ and ‘oh, I thought you were German’ overnight.