Support thread for those hosting refugees and advice for those thinking about it

[Honeysuckle9]

As per the previous thread this is a thread so we can offer support to each other and also outline the things we should be thinking about before making this leap

Mine haven’t “said” they are planning to go home in 6 months - if they were able to safely I would be really delighted for them - but I think it’s their only option if they don’t pull their finger out - as I doubt they would move into cheap accommodation.

And yes they are flying off on their second holiday in the next few weeks whilst we can’t afford one this year.

You can't just email your council and inform them that your guests have to leave at the end of the six months and expect that to automatically trigger anything in particular to happen. Councils do different things in different departments. There is the housing department who manage the waiting list for social housing (yes it does still exist!) Your guests can apply and will probably need some help with the application. Applicants are given a "priority band" in most areas and can then "bid" for houses that come up with those who've been waiting longest in the highest band getting each house. I'm reality in many areas they need to be very high priority (eg homeless or similar) to have much chance. Writing your guests a letter confirming that they need to leave at the end of the six months may help them to prove they are threatened with homelessness and get into a high band.

The council are also likely to offer help for all households getting into private rented housing such as a deposit guarantee scheme. This is less likely to require proof of imminent homelessness and might actually suit them better at most private rented housing is furnished so lower set up costs.

Separately from all this councils have legal duties to provide temporarily accommodation to those with children (and some other vulnerable adults, but not all refugees automatically) who are homeless. They would pick up this duty if you kicked your guests out but might be reluctant to do so otherwise - they may try to offer "mediation" to see if you can be persuaded to house them a bit longer. The temporary accommodation would likely be a hostel and would be provided (via them paying rent/UC) until they either get social housing or are offered a private rented property. If your guests don't have children then the councils don't have this duty to them - they should still help them find a hostel or similar for homeless people but if they're all full or your guests don't like them, or have refused to claim benefits and can't pay, then they could end up properly homeless. Have a look on the website of your local council where they should explain all this in the local context, and encourage your guests to do so too.

That’s very helpful @Fireyflies - thank you.

Mine don’t have children and as I said are wealthy, well educated, professionals so I just don’t think it should come to any of this.

@Fireyflies yes my western Ukrainians were super keen to find work the moment they landed! Most impressed with their work ethic, even tho they are pretty crappy jobs

@DFOD I tHink they are just one of those families who are very conscientious and believe in hard work. They are very good people. Don’t get me wrong, they can get on my nerves sometimes with some of their habits, but nothing more than how my own teens get on my nerves sometimes! But we are lucky harmoniously and it’s all fine

however, I do want them to leave at the 6 month mark just because I feel I have done my obligation and it’s time for life, for me, to return to some normality. However, I also feel v strongly that they should have their own independence and that includes getting their own place

so I rang the council to ask what the deal is…. There is definitely no magic council house waiting for them, of course (and I wouldn’t expect that either as that’s not appropriate). The council said that they are automatically classing Ukrainians in the local area as imminently homeless

they can join the housing bidding register and, as they will be classed as homeless with kids, they will get a fairly high ish banding, but certainly won’t be jumping ahead of anyone else on that register who is on the same or higher banding as them. The council were honest and said it’s highly unlikely they will be able to find them a council
property. And, again, I’m in agreement that they shouldn’t just be given a council place

so the council has said they will provide deposit and first month rent for a private rent. But won’t act as guarantor. The council won’t help us find a private rent, it’s something they (or rather, me!) will have to do. All the council does is provide the upfront initial financials.

I’ve told my family they have to act quickly now cos there are very very few private rents available and, with many other local ukrainian families also soon coming up to the end of the 6 months, they need to ‘get in there first’ otherwise they won’t get a property. And then they would be screwed ie they will end up in a hostel or something awful.

so the 6 months is up in mid oct and I made contact with council about 3 weeks ago, the council does say it takes about 6 weeks to even get an initial reply to anyone about housing but they contacted me within about a week and for the ball rolling. The family have now submitted all the relevant docs requested by the council ( but I did have to get a little cross with them for not progressing it quickly, reminding them of the situation that they could end up in a hostel id they don’t wake up and get their skates on)

the lady from the council is away until mon and so I don’t know the next steps. The council are going to look at their income plus UC etc and then will be Able to tell them what monthly rent they can afford

Sellie555 that's all so helpful thanks. Our council website says nothing about housing Ukrainian refugees and just links to the homes for Ukraine government site or the local charities and Citizen's Advice.

If we hear back soon regarding what our council will and won't do, our guests will have three months at least to prepare.

I just posted this on another thread - thought it might be helpful….

Just been listening to Lord Harrington (refugee minister?) on the radio - all about the ONS survey focusing on the 25% of hosts who are not planning to continue beyond the 6 month commitment.

Options they are looking at include:

Going back to those who registered for the HFU scheme initially but didn’t host and asking them to take Ukrainians who have been with a host for 6 months

#!Offering more money to hosts (amount TBC by the treasury)

Local councils to be rent guarantors

All of which is still passing the buck and not taking on accountability or responsibility for any substantive plans IMHO.

I am not sure option 1 will have as much traction as they hope - as the sense of urgency and emergency that UK citizens responded to in March is not there now (less news coverage of fleeing families) alongside going into the winter fuel crisis / cost of living is to be a deterrent (even with increased government support).

Also the will U.K. citizens feel motivated to open their homes to refugees who have been here 6 months and are already in work? It could be a much easier placement 6 months in as English better, all the admin done etc.

My council are still refusing to make any definitive statements regarding any kind of housing support. I wouldn't expect local authority housing - there isn't enough for people already here who need it.
I do think my guest is giving thought to her next steps although not sure how realistic her plans are. I've offered an extension to 12 months to her - I'd like my house back but she's no trouble and I'd prefer she found her feet and figured stuff out (ideally, involving getting a job with more hours) rather than feel panicked into going. More money would definitely be welcome, although I didn't do it for the money and now I've finally had two payments through I've covered the considerable initial costs we incurred during the wait for the visa.
I think some hosts could be willing to step forward at six months; I would contemplate it if my guest leaves before the end of the 12 month period. I'd prefer to help someone else who really needed it, ideally still in Ukraine, but the situation is what it is. I'd also be glad to avoid the enormous amounts of time and energy needed in those early weeks, and would be much clearer about boundaries and expectations with someone who had already settled in.
I do wish someone somewhere had given more thought to all of this; hard to believe it's not being made up on the fly and they've now chosen the "get the hosts to fix it" route.

No idea why that GIANT font happened apologies.

Yes I think that any new first time hosts that the Government uncover from the original database now would prefer to help someone destitute from Mariupol etc rather than someone who has been here 6 months - although the latter would be a much easier guest to accommodate without all of the turmoil and stress of visas and early months relentless admin.

So basically for my specific situation I won’t rely on any chance that a new host will take my family - and there is no social / council provision - so the only light is if the local council become a guarantor and pay first deposit and first month rent.

It's sad that I don’t think I would be even thinking of the 6 month ending at this half way point if I had seen any attempt to seek employment. The current vagueness and apathy around jobs is a total contrast to the intense focus and energy expended to nail every benefit and charity option in the early weeks which I totally supported with the expectation that this would provide the security to take the next step to work and then the next to find independent accommodation. I would be much happier hosting a family more in need and I would not have any expectations of a mother (effectively single) to work as the emotional support of her young children displayed from their home and family is the priority.

I recognise some of that mentality. I know she worked hard in Ukraine and she found a job in the Czech Republic for the six weeks or so she was there and worked very hard in unpleasant conditions. I was assured her priority was finding a job ("any job, Laurel!") but since arriving and finding her living situation is comfortable and she's still entitled to UC if she works some hours she has made no effort.

And yes they are flying off on their second holiday in the next few weeks whilst we can’t afford one this year.

Sorry but 😮

That's ridiculous. (Departs thread)

Without meaning to be, I find myself quite judgemental about our guests not being as in need as they presented themselves/making no effort to contribute. I also have no expectations that the mother of young children work but without giving too much away we have another adult here who could be seeking employment but is not. Apparently this week the person at the job centre said that was OK because that guest has put themselves down for a weekly English class starting in September. The level of English is not a problem so I have a feeling they have misrepresented how much they speak/understand. We found various English classes that were running two to three times a week when they all first arrived and was told they didn't feel their English required improvement. It is all very frustrating.

My exact experience. Feel I have been conned. I entered into this to help people in despair and desperation but that’s not what’s happening. Trying not to judge but feel a mug. Would like them to move on so I can help someone in real need.

I don’t think my guest will stay long . she is a student ( online study) and can claim UC . I’m not sure how but 🙄

I am on a couple of fb groups and also attend a meeting for local hosts . I hear more stories of disillusioned hosts than success stories .

Possibly because disillusioned hosts are more vocal than the ones who are happy. Being vocal is releasing that frustration.

But yeah, i think the point was that so many hosts thought they would help someone in dire need, who lost their home etc etc. The reality is, a sizeable percentage of those coming to the uk were not like that at all. In part because of the visa issue blocking and making it too difficult for those in direst need.

What struck me was talking to a Ukrainian who said 'im not going to stick on benefits. Im not going to do whats said on Ukrainian social media'. That stuck with me because clearly it is a thing, whether we want to believe it or not it fits with politically correct thinking. It creates a problem of how do you fix it and how do hosts stuck with someone taking advantage deal with it? So it really does need to be discussed for the sake of those caught out.

There definitely are some who really needed to come and really are making every effort possible, so I hope they aren't treated badly because of it.

www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Full-time-students-and-benefits/Can-full-time-students-claim-Universal-Credit

If she is under 21 and the course is below degree level / equivalent to A level. She would qualify for UC.

Can full-time students claim Universal Credit?

If you are a student, you can only claim Universal Credit if:

You are under 21, taking
a course that leading to a qualification at the same level as or below A levels (such as Scottish Highers, National Vocational Qualifications (NVQ) up to level 3) and you do not and cannot live with your parents; or

“What struck me was talking to a Ukrainian who said 'im not going to stick on benefits. Im not going to do whats said on Ukrainian social media'. That stuck with me because clearly it is a thing, whether we want to believe it or not it fits with politically correct thinking. It creates a problem of how do you fix it and how do hosts stuck with someone taking advantage deal with it? So it really does need to be discussed for the sake of those caught out.”

This is the heart of it for me and why I find myself between a rock and a hard place. It’s not my job to nudge and support to gain employment or be hyper alert to exportation or fraud. Surely that’s the job of the UC liaison person? They need to be doing their job.

For me I was seemingly told a pack of lies about applying for work before they arrived and for the first few weeks - I have no issue about the refugee also being an economic migrants in contrast to PP - as our country has so many vacancies that our economy is being crippled by staff shortages.

My values are around work ethic and that’s what’s troubling me - and honesty as the vague obfuscation around job hunting is just becoming embarrassing now.

I find it really hard to come to terms with the fact that the dawning reality is that I am actually inadvertently facilitating exploitation of the benefit system under my own roof - it drains me of money, emotional and practical energy, space, privacy and family time. I have no authority or agency to police their efforts to find work and its now obvious this will be futile.

So I am trying to bite my tongue and tolerate it until my 6 month commitment is up (only half way now) - but the realisation that there is no process for them to move on except to the private rental sector worries me that I will be stuck. If my guests believe the rumoured false Ukrainian social media to stick on UC to get automatic housing and only realise it’s not true at the last moment then it’s going to me unnecessarily messy.

@DFOD hey, my lovely, this IS a process..it’s called making them homeless, you just need to call the council and say you don’t want them living there anymore. The council have then a responsibility to accommodate them (albeit likely a hostel or similar. But there is definitely a way out if that’s what u want. Absolutely you should not put up with guests for another 3 months if that’s not what you want.

i honestly think it sounds like you’ve done your ‘duty’ and it’s time for it to come to an end now. It’s your home and you have the absolute right to tell them to leave. Why don’t you call the council and see how they can support you with this? I’ve seen many hosts do it, so definitely do able

In terms of taking guests who have been here 6 months moving to some other willing host, I can see anyone being that willing to take guests who have spent their first 6 months here sponging off the government and their hosts and making no effort to help themselves. My guests are brilliant and hard-working and they also help around the house while being good company. For these reasons they can stay in my home as long as they want. But if they leave and I end up hosting again it would be to give another family stuck in Ukraine a chance- not to keep enabling a family who've had their chance and made nothing of it apart from what they can get from benefits, charities etc.

This is exactly my perspective. They were welcomed with open arms with a gentle expectation that they would find their feet. They are not vulnerable mother and children etc - they are 3 fully able professional adults being disingenuous IMHO.

The council do not have a duty to accommodate all homeless adults without children. They have a duty only to advise and support so might refer someone to a hostel or might tell them that the hostels are full currently and advise them to stay with a friend or try calling hostels elsewhere. They only have a duty to house vulnerable people and those with children. I don't think being Ukrainian or a refugee would automatically count as "vulnerable" in most areas. So the tough reality is that if your guests don't have children and you chuck them out, they could in theory end up in the streets. I'd suggest helping them liaise with the council and letting them stay until a hostel space or similar is available at least. Though helping them apply for deposit guarantee schemes to access private renting would be better. If you're in London I'd strongly recommend to your guests that they move elsewhere in the country if they want to settle here. Finding housing in London is horrendous currently.

On a separate note, given I've posted previously about the baked bean borche, I thought I'd tell you that my guest cooked gorgeous food today - slices of courgette battered, with garlic mayonnaise and fresh tomato in top (all from the garden) Tasted fantastic! So maybe her cooking is improving :)

Had the weirdest experience today.

Guest has booked her flight home. She then booked for a man with a van who travels to and from Ukraine taking people's stuff for them (and people, as I found out today) to where they need it to go.
She arrived here three months ago with a tiny suitcase and a holdall for her and two children and had seven of the thick plastic zip up bag for lifes and a suitcase, to send back with all sorts of clothes and toys that they've been given or bought from Primark in their time here, as well as the stuff she will take on the plane soon, that she needs until she travels.
I was laughing at her telling her she's mad, and that for the price she's paying to have it transported, she could just buy it all again from a second hand shop over there. The irony is they wear the same clothes every few days and have the washing machine on constantly (even though I've told her twice to just use it twice a week).
She agreed that she'll probably get to Ukraine and throw it all away.
Anyway, the minibus shows up and two men and three women get out. I think the three women were ones travelling back.
One of them was all in flashy but cheap looking designer gear, if you get what I mean. Think J Lo in the early 2000s. Overheating on this really hot day. Also fanning herself with a chinese style fan.
I watched the men weigh all my guest's luggage on their scales and then try to rearrange the back of the van from all the other crap people had paid them to take back to a war zone for them. A giant two metre high pot plant was part of the belongings and the main item giving them trouble. Priorities right? I asked the middle aged Ukrainian lady if she was going to Ukraine and she said she was. I asked her how long she had been here, expecting her to say a few months and perhaps she just couldn't hack it, for her to tell me she had lived in London for the past twenty years and had had enough. I told her "you picked a good time to go back..." Absolute madness. I felt like saying 'maybe just try Kent or Shropshire, until the war is over?'.
Anyway, my guest said goodbye to all of her junk and has been in a weird mood ever since, but maybe the reality of what's going on for her, was made apparent with all the chaos of the mini tree falling out of the back of the van and a twenty year gone Londoner heading back to a country at war in a designer outfit, trying to take some part of fashionable London living back to the chaos. I think the lesson today was that you can't make somewhere what somewhere else is. My guest probably has had enough stability here to think that all will be okay for her and the kids back home, even though sirens go off every day and they're doing bomb shelter practises during the kindergarden classes. She said she will maybe come back in a few months, after renewing her daughter's passport (she got a two year extension at the embassy last week), but I don't know if she understands the reality of UC and the council and homelessness and that I probably won't want to have them back after a break and destabilise my daughter.

I think @RedToothBrush said that returning to the war zone voluntarily invalidates the refugee visa? So it’s not likely she will be able to come and go?

The vans are usually very cheap, £1 a kg- even our local one is only charging an extra £10 extra cover. They run very regularly and it’s an established service that is more efficient that Royal Mail. It’s not like the expense of sending large parcels by post.

in Ukraine clothing still generally costs more and isn’t the same quality, it’s mainly form the east. Very synthetic and cheap prints etc, Primark has good stuff for less in comparison. We send clothes in the vans to family seasonally. In the region we are from earnings are £250 a month typically so it’s a big deal to access Primark. We have to be strict about them not sending us junk back as a thank you. Even the toys are typically dangerous copies.

Travel wise for visas I believe it’s possible, I know someone who has done it recently, though I don’t know specifics. It’s complicated, my relative went back to another region to see a dying relative- not home but a journey they wanted to undertake. Being a refugee is complex, it’s not just ‘am I being bombed this minute’- it’s also simply having a roof over your head somewhere. You can travel back, but it doesn’t mean you have a place to stay.

I also know someone who went back. Again it’s complicated. Many who rent rooms here are facing 10-12 in a small house in London. It’s a tough rental market. If you have a safe place in the west it may be worth going back. Also in our bit of London there is some anti-Ukrainian feeling on top of the stress. Petitions in schools about unfair treatment, comments around and stories. Lots of things chipping away at mental health.

Regarding sending stuff back it’s weird. It’s a combination of quickly accepting the new normal and pretending it’s all normal I think. Even without the war DH and I (20 years ago) became horders. We’d trawl car boot sale buying stuff like skis and fruit presses to sent back just because we could suddenly get them. Still clearing the house of stuff now that we never used.