To insist my daughter goes to uni?

[Stropalotopus83]

I'll try to keep this brief!! DD (18) was supposed to go to uni last September. She had applied to various unis and had offers from most but had her heart set on Edinburgh. At the last minute she panicked and set Warwick as her safety as it had a lower grade threshold despite it not being in her top three choices. Sadly she didn't get into Edinburgh and then couldn't get into any of her other choices through clearing due to oversubscription on her course (biochemistry) despite having the grades (A*, A A). We went to visit Warwick but she ultimately decided to take a year off, get a job, earn some money and save and try again this year.

We visited Leeds and Manchester and she loved both, we didn't visit Edinburgh as so far away. She received unconditional offers from Leeds and Manchester. Again, despite meeting the grade threshold she didn't get into Edinburgh which is sad but not really the end of the world (at least I don't think it is). So she needed to decide between Leeds and Manchester.

Last night she casually mentioned she doesn't think she is going to go at all. I was dumbfounded as she has always been set on uni and has known she wanted to do science in some form since yr8. Initially she was considering medicine but for the last few years has been set on biochemistry.

Anyway. I asked her what she was going to do if she didn't go, she said she has a job. She does have a job she's working full time as a receptionist at a hotel at the moment. I said that job wasn't enough for her to afford to get her own place and keep a roof over her head etc. she laughed and said well you aren't going to throw me out, I'll just keep living here.

I'm worried she is going to massively regret this.

She currently pays £100 rent per month but earns around £1300. I deliberately only asked her to pay a token rent on the basis that she was saving as much as possible for uni.

So do I know sit her down and say ok - you don't have to go to uni but if you intend to stay here you need to pay a realistic rent being a quarter of all bills and shopping (4 people in household). This would dramatically increase her rent but might make her realise that just because life is great now (that she works and has a large disposable income and I do all washing etc for her) it won't stay that way?

I don't know what to do. I didn't go to uni and I have always regretted it. I am now doing a degree through the open uni alongside working full time but still wish I had gone when I had the chance. I don't know therefore if my own feelings about missing out etc are in play here and I'm perhaps not being as objective as I should be.

Any advice?

Thanks

I agree with doing what you suggest!
She got anxious last time...is she feeling anxious again?

Think people are missing the fact that she's gone from being a super high flyer with dreams of biochemistry and very high hopes about where to go to university to deciding not to go to university at all and instead to do a minimum wage job with no plans for the future.

Now, it's possible that the scales have fallen from her eyes and she's realised that actually it's hotel reception work that is her dream, not biochemistry, in which case crack on. But it seems pretty unlikely to me and so perhaps there is something else going on- as I suggested further up maybe just a loss of momentum and confidence, or else a new partner she doesn't want to leave, or something else...in any event, it seems a bad idea to me to bin many years' dreams and hard work based on a few months of reception work and bumming around.

MN will tell you that university is a waste of time and show you figures about average earnings and debt- all very relevant if you think the only point of uni is to increase your earnings. On the other hand, if you think your daughter might benefit on a personal level from the experience and might actually enjoy learning about the subject that (until incredibly recently) she had her heart set on, I'd be taking a firm line. You can't make her go but you can try to get to the bottom of what's going on.

You can't force her! It is a lot of money potentially and she needs to be sure she will get the most from it. A gap of several years and even mature students are not unusual.

From some one who used to work at a university then going to university as a very mature student later on in life. It was the best thing I did, later in life you have a good idea what you want to do and generally mature students tend to get higher grades and your more interested in doing course work than partying. Let her live and go later of she wishes.

I wouldn't force her to go, but I would say that a) her paying such a low rent was on the understanding she was saving for uni so you want to reassess and she pays a share of the bills. And b) she thinks about her long term career plans. Is it a receptionist in a hotel? That's a job, not a career. She took this as she needed a job, any job, but now its time to think about a career plan and how to work towards what she wants to do.

Uni isn't for everyone, but then I know too many young people who wasted the early adulthood years with dead-end jobs, and still ended up starting their career at the same age as they would if they'd gone to uni, except now they didn't have a degree to show for it. She needs a plan.

I would tell her that if she's an independent adult then she needs to pay her way. So increase her rent to about £500. Which is fair for a room, bills and food.

She needs to feel what being an adult on a low wage is like.

YANBU. My Mums rule was always if you are in full time education I will support you with cheap rent and no food costs etc, if you aren’t you pay your way. I tried to drop out of college and was just going to keep working in my minimum wage restaurant job. When she told me this rule it stopped me and I continued with my a levels, went to uni, got on a grad scheme and 10 years later I have two professional qualifications, own my own home and earn enough to live a comfortable lifestyle, with 3 kids in tow. I’m so glad my mum didn’t let me throw all this away on a stupid decision. Her other motto was ‘you’ll thank me one day’, she was right. Please try talk her round.

Have she got a clear idea why she wants to do Biochemistry and what her future intended career might be? I did biochem and I couldn't have progressed in my subsequent career without it (or a similar scientific degree) but unless it's needed for career plan I can see that doing a degree, with the costs associated with it may not always be worthwhile. So I'd be wanting to understand her thought process on it all too

I'd say it's pretty common for teens who have had the experience of having an income to be reluctant to give that up in favour of going back to 'school' - especially when a degree does not come with the same high chance of better earnings later that it used to. Especially if most of that income is currently for personal spending not supporting herself.

I can understand you feeling disappointed that she isn't taking up the oppotunity now, but I'd caution against pushing her too hard - if she's pressured into going and isn't interested/doesn't take it seriously she is unlikely to get much out of it and it will be squandering her student finance elligibility, which means she'll be paying out of pocket if she decided further down the line there is an area of study she wants to persue.

My son did an IT networks and comms Apprentice from 16 - at 20 he decided he wanted to do politics at uni- but work part time in IT. Sadly covid hit and he did 16 months at Uni , got fed up of paying good money for little interaction and went straight back to IT- he earns around £32k and is 24 and lives in a lovely flat share in nice part of London just with 1 other. I would let your daughter come to her own conclusions OP- but make her pay around £500 a month inclusive, (still reasonable) so she understands that having a moderately paid job won't leave her with as much as she thinks and she can't live at home forever

I have been to university 3 times.

My DS has had a gap year. He is going to university this year come hell or high water. I wouldn't want him to miss the experience for anything. I had a rough time as an under grad, a better time for my PG Dip and an amazing time for my MSc. A science degree (or 3!) is worth its weight in gold. Unpack why she doesn't want to go.

@diamondpony80

surely ”self employed in an online business” is going to become a really crowded place to be in the not too distant future?

Reallyreallyborednow · 18/05/2022 17:49

What do you mean by 10xs better? With a good biochemistry degree, she could easily be earning 100k plus within a few years of graduating

really? I have a biochemistry degree but have not come across any 100k jobs that don’t take years on a career track.

I know literally 10s and 10s of biochemists earning that salary as within 10 years: (research) product managers, product marketing, or operations managers in biotech. The latter not doing research but using their knowledge everyday. There’s also QA, Field Application Specialist, even Sales, and a ton of other roles requiring specialist knowledge. All in v high demand.

@Crikeyalmighty

That’s great for your son, he is doing really well. That does not translate for a science degree. Incidentally in the future I don’t think it will for software either but depends on his flavour of IT.

I have been the daughter in your situation and my mum did exactly what you are suggesting purely because I didn’t do what she wanted and what she thought was best and all she achieved was pushing me the wrong way made me resentful and angry and really made me unnecessary struggle until she got her own way and I went to uni where I was absolutley miserable stuck somewhere I didn’t want to be for several years and now in a job I hate. So my advice honestly would be to let your daughter decide and support her exactly as you have been and give her time and support to find her own feet and if that means she doesn’t want a degree and a well paid job then so be it. It’s not fair to say you either go to uni because I’m projecting my own personal regrets on you or don’t go and I’ll take a lot more money off you, give the girl a chance to work and reinforce how important saving is to stand on her own feet but ultimately respect her choice she’s still young she has many years of options ahead of her when she’s ready

Hi everyone, just an update and also to thanks again for all of your comments and help

We have had a long chat tonight, I made it clear that I fully supported whatever decision she made but that she needed to seriously consider her options etc before she makes a decision.

I went through all of our monthly outgoings with her and showed her what a quarter of that looked like and also showed her rental prices for local properties etc.

I explained that if she didn't go to uni that was fine - it's absolutely her choice but if she doesn't go then she will need to contribute much more to household expenses and to the running of the house as well.

To be fair to her she was absolutely fine with the idea of paying more in the way of rent and she even said she was happy to pay a quarter as she felt this was reasonable.

We then had a chat about exactly why she feels she doesn't want to go and the long and the short of it is that she is worried she won't be able to keep up having had a year off. She is concerned she has forgotten everything and also the rejection from Edinburgh made her feel perhaps she wasn't good enough etc.

We discussed what she could do instead - stay in her job / train in hospitality / look for some kind of apprenticeship etc but she said that she thinks she may just be feeling uncertain and anxious about things.

So. We have agreed to let her think about things for a little while but to register for accommodation etc for one of the unis just in case. She can always cancel / drop out before September if that is the decision she feels is best but also a place is secured if she does go (thank you to the poster who suggested this!)

I also suggested that she do some courses maybe over the summer (I know the open university offers them through open learn) just small taster science courses that will just refresh her previous knowledge and get her back into the swing of studying etc.

After talking to her I do genuinely think she is just having a bit of a wobble - she says she is still very interested in the sciences and doesn't really want to do anything else - she enjoys her current job for what it is but doesn't see herself staying in the hospitality industry long term.

We will just have to wait and see what happens but she is aware now that we will absolutely support her in whatever decision.

Thanks again for all the help - it has really helped me in the way I approached it with her and we were able to have a proper discussion with facts and information and options that I would never have thought of otherwise which made for a very calm situation rather than a tiff! x

Great to read your update.

Sounds like your DD is so lucky to have your support. How lovely.

Wishing her all the best.

Great update! Can I reassure her that loads of kids take a gap year and there is no difference in module marks between those that do and those that go straight from school. She's very bright - honestly she'll be absolutely fine and once she's sat through the first couple of weeks of lectures she'll wonder why she was so worried!

Well, you can't force her to apply I suppose but you can make her life a lot less comfortable. Whether she likes it or not, she's an adult now, she can either use uni as a transition time or stand on her own feet. That £1300 won't go far if she's not living with you. I'd want my kids to go to uni 100% it changed my life completely and although the debt is horrendous, you are generally much better off for having gone. Not just being able to tick that degree box, but you also learn a lot and not necessarily what you expect to learn. It's useful for working. It does sound like her chosen course is a bit boring though (apologies to those in the field) and not really firing her up. So I'd explore that. There can be temptation to do something "that will get a good job" but at the same time there's nothing worse than studying something that pigeonholes you to careers that don't fire you up.

No advice here, but just a thought. If your DD does go to uni despite not really wanting to, and then subsequently drops out, would it affect funding if she wants to return later? Maybe look into that. If it does, would it be better to wait until when or if she really wants to go and is motivated?

Yes, this. She will be absolutely fine. Good update.

OP are you paying for your DD to go to University? If you're expecting her to run up debt which she will have to pay back herself to go to university when she really doesn't want to, then that is very very unreasonable.

Hi OP thanks for the update- I was about to write a longwinded reply!

Great you've had a sensible & open conversation about it

I had a gap year- mainly working in a local supermarket then low key travel to a few of countries in Europe

I was raring to go and get back into studying & throwing myself into university life!

On another note, why the big attraction with Edinburgh?

A good friend of mine went there and had quite a miserable time, found herself surrounded by quite different people (she is state school educated, pretty much public school crowd, lots of titles)

She just felt like she didn't fit in and it was all just too "rah" for her

Your DD's offers at Manchester and Leeds sound much more like fun, down to earth places to go!

She will actually be completely fine at Uni. The first year is pretty much a foundation year with some students studying subjects fairly new to them. After A levels, I found the first year quite easy.

So it's her confidence you need to work on.

Could you get in touch with her old school, her careers teacher, to tell her how brilliant she is and she doesn't just lose her knowledge base from taking a gap year?

She got 3 As for godsake!
She wants to work in science, she will probably need to get a degree for this.

You have been supportive but I would urge you to encourage her not to throw this away.