To insist my daughter goes to uni?

[Stropalotopus83]

I'll try to keep this brief!! DD (18) was supposed to go to uni last September. She had applied to various unis and had offers from most but had her heart set on Edinburgh. At the last minute she panicked and set Warwick as her safety as it had a lower grade threshold despite it not being in her top three choices. Sadly she didn't get into Edinburgh and then couldn't get into any of her other choices through clearing due to oversubscription on her course (biochemistry) despite having the grades (A*, A A). We went to visit Warwick but she ultimately decided to take a year off, get a job, earn some money and save and try again this year.

We visited Leeds and Manchester and she loved both, we didn't visit Edinburgh as so far away. She received unconditional offers from Leeds and Manchester. Again, despite meeting the grade threshold she didn't get into Edinburgh which is sad but not really the end of the world (at least I don't think it is). So she needed to decide between Leeds and Manchester.

Last night she casually mentioned she doesn't think she is going to go at all. I was dumbfounded as she has always been set on uni and has known she wanted to do science in some form since yr8. Initially she was considering medicine but for the last few years has been set on biochemistry.

Anyway. I asked her what she was going to do if she didn't go, she said she has a job. She does have a job she's working full time as a receptionist at a hotel at the moment. I said that job wasn't enough for her to afford to get her own place and keep a roof over her head etc. she laughed and said well you aren't going to throw me out, I'll just keep living here.

I'm worried she is going to massively regret this.

She currently pays £100 rent per month but earns around £1300. I deliberately only asked her to pay a token rent on the basis that she was saving as much as possible for uni.

So do I know sit her down and say ok - you don't have to go to uni but if you intend to stay here you need to pay a realistic rent being a quarter of all bills and shopping (4 people in household). This would dramatically increase her rent but might make her realise that just because life is great now (that she works and has a large disposable income and I do all washing etc for her) it won't stay that way?

I don't know what to do. I didn't go to uni and I have always regretted it. I am now doing a degree through the open uni alongside working full time but still wish I had gone when I had the chance. I don't know therefore if my own feelings about missing out etc are in play here and I'm perhaps not being as objective as I should be.

Any advice?

Thanks

What do you mean by 10xs better? With a good biochemistry degree, she could easily be earning 100k plus within a few years of graduating

really? I have a biochemistry degree but have not come across any 100k jobs that don’t take years on a career track.

what kind of job do you mean? Nhs doesnmt pay that, neither does academia. Postgrad industry research doesn't either. Would love to know!

unless you mean none science related? My peer grads the ones who are earning ££ went into accountancy or law.

Strongly encourage her to go to university. If not then she needs to pursue a degree apprenticeship. She sounds like a bright girl and she will regret not going when further down the line she is not qualified to get the jobs she is likely to aspire to (having once thought about doing medicine and having achieved brilliant A level grades).

I would make the stay at home as a receptionist option very difficult and unnattractive.

I had a dilemma with my son when he missed his grades for uni. He was offered a foundation year or he could go to his insurance. To me it was a no brainer for his insurance but he really wanted to go to his first choice. I was all set to pressure him but a far wiser friend than me said to let him make up his own mind. If he caved in from pressure from me and then it all went wrong, he would blame me. If it didn’t work out from his decision, he would chalk it up to experience. Such good advice-he went to his first choice and did the extra year, and it worked out really well. So if your daughter wants to rethink uni-let her. She has stellar grades-she can apply for a STEM apprenticeship or she can do her job while she works out what she wants to do. You can only point out pitfalls so that she’s aware of the,-for instance if she delays going another year, the loan conditions are going to be more onerous for her. If she feels coerced, uni won’t be a good experience, especially a difficult course which needs total commitment. I wish you well-it may be just she’s having a wobble and then will get back on track in a couple of weeks. But take the pressure off.

Surely your problem was your subject, and how you spent your time at uni, rather than the degree itself?
You need a degree for most jobs these days, even 'entry level'.
You're also meant to be taking advantage of career training, and gaining as much work experience as possible.

I coach, and review CV's for young people from disadvantaged backgrounds. Many are bright, but don't have a clue as to how applications work. They don't realize that unis have career centers, that graduate schemes have several rounds of applications. They just assume that a degree put them at the top of the pile, and that it would be an interview, end of.

Thankfully, easily remedied, and all my mentees have gone on to well paid jobs.

Once you know how the process works, and how to sell yourself you'll definitely get a job. It may not be your ideal industry, but it's a job. In fact graduate schemes are the easiest jobs of a career , because :

• Rolling basis recruitment. At the start if the process you don't need to be better than all the other candidates, just pass all stages and you'll get an offer.


• Box-ticking recruitment. All companies have their values etc on their sites. You can find interview questions online. Just word your answers correctly and you'll get a tick in every box.

Compare this to a 'normal' job.. where they're recruiting for a specific role... and you have to be THE BEST, beating everyone else. You may have passed a benchmark, but someone else was better than you. Tough luck.

Whats her alternative life plan if she isn't going to Uni. Does she plan on working her way up within hospitality? £1300 seems like a decent wage when your outgoings are only £100. But that's not realistic long-term, is it.
You need to be charging her a more realistic amount including all bills. If nothing else this might galvinise her into looking at better paid work and career options for the future. when she realises that her disposable income isn't so good anymore.
Uni isn't the only option. Trades are in high demand and wages are reasonable. also apprenticships are available too.

You can't make her go but think it is very silly to fixate on one uni. I have studied at both Leeds and Manchester (and lived in Edinburgh!) and I think she could have a great time at either of the first two (I vastly prefer Leeds personally.) They are both great unis. Edinburgh is lovely but extremely expensive. Cos she hasn't been there she probably idealises more in her mind.

Just having a couple of years out by no means means she won't go to uni at all but I have never quite understood why adults would rather stay at home when there is the option of leaving and building their own life. I love my family but I wanted to get out into the world and be independent. (No, my parents did not give me any money when I was at uni, I worked.)

Why is Uni so important to you? It’s her choice and she has a job. She’s earning so whilst paying you rent she needs to save so she can get a deposit.
my DC did a year at Uni, left and has worked ever since, they saved and moved into a flat share last year with a friend. It’s definitely do-able

Consultancy as a subject matter expert for the Big4.
Product manager etc roles for healthtech startups.

STEM degrees in general are also very in-demand for programming/data science. So that's a 'non-science' job, but there are specific programs (e.g. research software) where domain knowledge is preferred. In any case 'generic' devs can make 100K in 5 years, if they're capable.

Despite all the 'learn code' blah2 it's still extremely difficult to find technically capable people...

*by Big4 I mean Bain, MacKinsey etc

Thanks you seem cool too xx

It won't do her any harm at all to work for a few years (paying a reasonable rent of course) andleave university for later. IN a few years she'll have a different view of what she wants from life , what she really wants to do, and which couse to study (if any)

As she's now a working adult you work out her fair contribution to all household expenses (CT, fuel, food) and, of course,. she contributes in other ways; shopping for and cooking food, doing her own laundry, keeping the house and garden clean and maintained. If she wants trips and holidays, she saves up and pays for herself. All those independent responsibilities and budgeting will stand her in good stead when she's a either a student. or a working woman living in her own place.

If she supports herself financially for 3 years. or reaches age 25, then if/ when she goes to university her grants won't depend on your income

@TheFairyNamedMary

it doesn’t sound like her daughter has any intention of saving to move out of her mothers house. It sounds like she is liking the easy life

How would you teach them the value of money then?
It's fine if the DC are already highly motivated, saving for a deposit etc but many aren't. Even when 'contributing to the household', they still have a pretty comfy life because it's their family home.

Make them share with strangers...a few months, and they'll realize how good they had it, and why they need to focus on earning potential.

I think a university education isn’t much worth it anymore. Too many people with degrees, some not worth the paper they are written on.
Better off getting a trade. A decent plumber, electrician etc with the ability to manage their time and communicate with their clients can earn a mint. And trades aren’t just for boys.

Also to add in my culture we stay with our parents until married, so the idea isn't alien to me :) We're also supposed to go to uni however, and get 'good jobs'.
It's the comment 'you can't kick me out' etc that's the issue here

Just having a couple of years out by no means means she won't go to uni at all but I have never quite understood why adults would rather stay at home when there is the option of leaving and building their own life. I love my family but I wanted to get out into the world and be independent. (No, my parents did not give me any money when I was at uni, I worked.)

I don’t get this either!

Get out into the world, spread your wings, can’t live with your parent enjoying home comforts forever!

We bring our children up to be independent and think for themselves and then when they do, we don't like it. Leave her be. If/when she changes her mind, she can pick up the threads again.

Alternatively, when she's flying in hotel management in three years time, earning well and with no debt, you may think she made the right decision after all.

What was she doing at uni?

If it's a purely academic pursuit I'd argue that today it's not worth the money.

She is already on a good wage in an entry level position. Perhaps she wants to work her way up and one day manage, even own that hotel?

University is not obligatory.

I have a degree, but I got my jobs on work experience. My degree was academic (as opposed to vocational) so totally unnecessary for work, but it did help me get some nice roles where 'degree educated' was an essential criteria. But they were public and third sector stuff and it sounds like your daughter may want to be more of a work your way up, understand your sector thoroughly, and become a very high earner - which is great!

Speak to her more about it and her plans?

I agree that being a receptionist and living with your mum is not a good life plan.

Does she want a family? Does she want to do a menial job and find a husband who wants a housewife? Speak to her about her actual plan. It's not okay to pressure her to take a certain path. It is your job though to impress upon her how important it is to have an actual plan for your life.

I didn't go at 18 to my parents disappointment but I did at 22 after 4 years of working. She hasnt burned her bridges

@DeedIDo

Do people really earn that well in hotel management?

Also communications roles. I know a couple of people who did 3 years or so in house then set up independently and are earning around 100 k plus with no shortage of work.

I went to uni because my parents wanted me to and I really didn't know what else I wanted to do at 18. I'm now doing something entirely unrelated and earning far more than I ever did from my degree (was a teacher - now I'm self employed in an online business). I don't think uni was a complete waste of time for me but probably not worth what it costs today.

My son is now 18 and doesn't really know what to do with himself. He's applied for plenty of universities and will most likely get good grades. I wouldn't force him to go to uni though as I don't think its the be all and end all. There are so many people creating their own jobs/businesses online these days, getting their own experience, learning from online courses etc. If business isn't for him, I'd much prefer he went to university than work in a minimum wage job.

Does she have any career in mind (no matter how vague) or will her original chosen degree course open doors to specific careers in that field? Or more general others where entry level is a degree (of any kind)?

Difficult at that age to have any clear job in mind. I’d use the time to get her considering what jobs she might be interested in if any? What actually interests her? Apart from academic ability what is she good at, what career ideas did she have growing up etc? Has she felt pushed into doing a subject just because she’s good at it, but aside from that has little interest in it? Does she have any entrepreneurial interests? Does she have any notions, dreams no matter how silly of what appeals to her?

I wouldn’t force her to go but I would be clear with her about the cost of living & that if she isn’t going to further her education & career prospects, she will be expected to contribute in the form of rent, bills, transport etc. And how that may push her into getting a job which will may enable her to pay her way, but which may reduce her prospects for further progression, or job change if she doesn’t get vital qualifications in first, whilst she is in that phase of her life of studying & qualifying.

Moot the possibility of deferring for a year with the condition that she can always change her mind if she strongly doesn’t want to go. As long as she has an alternative plan, in mind ie a job that can cover all living costs, or one with a clear pathway that would enable progression to be able to do that, like an apprenticeship or more skills/role specific qualifications.

That may all seem too much like hard work & quite daunting to figure out in such a short space of time. Because it is. Try to get her to see that by keeping her options open, whilst gaining her degree, gives her the scope to try out different paid work experience along the way, in the form of holiday jobs or jobs alongside her studies, giving her time to develop as a person along the way, whilst taking the pressure off her to narrow down her options.

Depending on of course, on how she will be financing uni & if she will have any financial support from you to do so. The prospect of coming out with such a huge debt, when you have no vocation in mind is understandably pretty demotivating. Apprenticeships can make far more sense.

Taking time out at this stage could prove very useful in really using the time properly to explore her other options. Maybe you say she has your support to do that, as long as she utilises the time effectively & not just working 9-5 with no consideration given for how sustainable that can be.

She could also apply for more work experience (to what she has to date) in different fields so she can get a taste for & further knowledge in any roles that might help her form a specific career goal.

As an aside, if she enjoys / impresses in her hotel job, it's an excellent entry for a really varied set of career choices - she could move into sales, hotel operations, conferences, events etc and with such a massive industry of hotels from budget but massive global brands to exclusive luxury independent properties.

Could work out really well for her if she's up for working hard.

Sorry NRTFT

I went to uni as a mature student and remember thinking that if I went at 18 I would have literally just wasted it and regretted it.

I actually think it’s good to get a job for a year or 2 and then go.

I would say to her that it’s completely her choice but to make sure she’s not just choosing because she thinks she’s not good enough for uni - if she chooses not to go then she’ll have to pay a bit more to help out.

I would then encourage her again in a year or 2 when she realises working FT isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.

Many people didn’t go to uni and are incredibly happy and successful, so don’t worry if she chooses not to.