To insist my daughter goes to uni?

[Stropalotopus83]

I'll try to keep this brief!! DD (18) was supposed to go to uni last September. She had applied to various unis and had offers from most but had her heart set on Edinburgh. At the last minute she panicked and set Warwick as her safety as it had a lower grade threshold despite it not being in her top three choices. Sadly she didn't get into Edinburgh and then couldn't get into any of her other choices through clearing due to oversubscription on her course (biochemistry) despite having the grades (A*, A A). We went to visit Warwick but she ultimately decided to take a year off, get a job, earn some money and save and try again this year.

We visited Leeds and Manchester and she loved both, we didn't visit Edinburgh as so far away. She received unconditional offers from Leeds and Manchester. Again, despite meeting the grade threshold she didn't get into Edinburgh which is sad but not really the end of the world (at least I don't think it is). So she needed to decide between Leeds and Manchester.

Last night she casually mentioned she doesn't think she is going to go at all. I was dumbfounded as she has always been set on uni and has known she wanted to do science in some form since yr8. Initially she was considering medicine but for the last few years has been set on biochemistry.

Anyway. I asked her what she was going to do if she didn't go, she said she has a job. She does have a job she's working full time as a receptionist at a hotel at the moment. I said that job wasn't enough for her to afford to get her own place and keep a roof over her head etc. she laughed and said well you aren't going to throw me out, I'll just keep living here.

I'm worried she is going to massively regret this.

She currently pays £100 rent per month but earns around £1300. I deliberately only asked her to pay a token rent on the basis that she was saving as much as possible for uni.

So do I know sit her down and say ok - you don't have to go to uni but if you intend to stay here you need to pay a realistic rent being a quarter of all bills and shopping (4 people in household). This would dramatically increase her rent but might make her realise that just because life is great now (that she works and has a large disposable income and I do all washing etc for her) it won't stay that way?

I don't know what to do. I didn't go to uni and I have always regretted it. I am now doing a degree through the open uni alongside working full time but still wish I had gone when I had the chance. I don't know therefore if my own feelings about missing out etc are in play here and I'm perhaps not being as objective as I should be.

Any advice?

Thanks

I have a friend who did this and she was flying high earning the cash while we were all at uni, but it was in the years following graduation when we all started getting into professional roles and moving to London that she got left behind, physically, socially, economically...

DD was unsure whether to go to university or not, we discussed it, and agreed that a gap year would be good. We also told her that if she didn't want to go to university at all, we would support that decision, but she would have to get a job, or look for an apprenticeship.
There are all kinds of apprenticeships in all manner of fields, so not going to university would not be the end if the world.

Please keep the lines of communication open OP

If she regrets it later, she can go later.

£200 pcm rent and she pays her own mobile/any clothes she wants/any specific foods and make up and toiletries outside of what is provided for the household.

@TonyBlairsLover

And it’s her mums choice to not allow her to keep living with her and pay such paltry “rent” isn’t it?

I didn't go to a brick uni and got my education later with thé OU, which helped me progress into the career I ultimately wanted. I just took the longer route.

That said, if my DC decide not to go to university, I would explain how much harder it was to study with a full time job and children, and that if they were to do this, I would want to see them doing some sort of useful qualification (such as an OU degree) while they were under my roof.

Sorry pressed send too soon.

They don't have to finish the whole degree in one sitting, but it is easier to finish once studying and you can get out of the habit of studying pretty quickly.

Whilst having a degree is not the be all and end all, I would rather have one and not use it that's be prevented from an opportunity later in life because I didn't have one...

That is way too low. She needs to pay bills that are realistic for what her life is going to actually be like. Otherwise she has all this disposable income and thinks that is what being an adult is like.

That’s true but I don’t think the OP is saying or doing anything U, she’s trying to work out the best way forward. She seems a pretty rational mum to me, some would be going ballistic.

No good saving for a deposit if they don’t earn enough to cover a mortgage.

I would suggest she goes to visit Edinburgh, its a fab city

If you can do it in a really relaxed way I would try to talk to her about the reality of the choice she’s making. To be fair, if she’s clever enough to get those kinds of A level grades she’ll probably do pretty well moving forward in a career in hospitality or anything else, so I would focus more on asking her if that’s the impact she wants to have on the world and if she really wants to close down opportunities that a biochemistry degree could get her.

She does have a few years she could put things on hold for. But the people saying “if she doesn’t go now she can go later” aren’t entirely right. Her A levels have, in a sense, an expiration date. Most unis won’t accept them if they’re more than 3 - 5 years old without some newer qualification showing she can still learn at that standard. Which will be a pain.

I agree with changing her rent. Work out what the market rate for a similar set up in a room in a house is, knock a little bit bit off, but not much. It is, in the end, her life and her choice. You can’t make her. But you can and should stop making the alternative look rosier than it is.

Really?😂😂😂

You can't actually make them though

Whilst there is a lot of anecdata on here re. people who have done apprenticeships for things like accounting, there are very few similarly available for biochemistry. Maybe at the big Pharma (?), but it’s not an equivalent route like accountancy. If she wants to latterly apply for medicine I’d assume she needs to do volunteering at the hospital, care home etc.

Yes it’s expensive and technically it doesn’t guarantee a role. I’d say any half decent degree in biochemistry from one of this Uni’s will.

I think there’s a lot to be said for being more mature going to Uni after a year or 2 out etc. As someone who did a masters later in life with a full time job and DC, it’s infinitely harder than when you’re young.

so the question is what does she want to do if it’s not science and therefore might not need a uni qualification, and how will she figure that out?

I know MN is not a hive mind, but when I said I was planning to charge my adult, earning DS £400 a month board, the thread was full of people telling me what a horrible parent I was, how they couldn't imagine charging their child to live in their own home, did I hate my child etc etc. So refreshing to see the consensus here that charging your adult DC a more appropriate (but still below market rate) board is not so dreadful!

The point I'd make is that your DC is 18. A decision she makes now is just that - a decision made for NOW. It doesn't preclude her going to university in a year or so or several years. It doesn't stop her getting a degree via other means such as apprenticeship or distance learning. If indeed getting a degree is what she wants to do. The job she does at 18 will not define her forever. She may well gain practical experience via other means and do just as well or better than someone with a degree. She could consider studying an HNC at a local college (which can be used for credit transfer onto a degree course if she wants to do that later) if there is something more vocational she would rather do.

Your DD will achieve more if she wants to do it for herself.
There is more than one route to the same destination.

‘I said that job wasn't enough for her to afford to get her own place and keep a roof over her head etc. she laughed and said well you aren't going to throw me out, I'll just keep living here.’

Ha ha ha, read Mummy’s face & think again.

This is a pinch point when children grow into young adults & we hope that they fledge fully into independent adults who can leave the nest & get on with their own lives.

If your DD would like to stay living with you, then I suggest that she makes the case for how & why it benefits you to have her there. Now this is a case of critical reasoning for her & in the process she will grasp that it is in her better interests for her to fledge, by going away to University & get on with her life.

As an alternative, she may consider an apprenticeship so that she earns as she learns, & this may well require her to relocate.

Underneath this is her uncertainty about making a commitment to an adult independent life. Understandable but staying home in the cosy nest is not the answer. Talk through her uncertainties with her but with the firm assertion that she is to fledge. If she completely refuses Uni or apprenticeship then she earns full whack & pays full rent.

Unless she is ill or incapable, when home is required for safety, recovery &/or security, then she is old enough to get on with it.You need to be forthright in your challenges so that she feels the pinch of her assumptions not being realistic for her, her capabilities & for your plans for your life.

It is time to flex her wings & jump out the nest to fly.
It is time for you to get in with your life & this comes into the balance.

I'd be giving a her a big reality check and be asking for more rent if she is going to stay in work. In addition I'd expect her to do the cooking twice a week, her own laundry and fair share if the chores. I wouldn't be cleaning her room. I'd probably say that she couldn't stay indefinitely and by 21 I'd expect her to be moving out and paying rent on her own place.

She is capable of doing really well at uni, has great grades so I would really want to talk to her about what is holding her back. Is it that she's afraid of moving away or would she be able to commute to Manchester or Leeds? Anything troubling her about uni? Is there any other profession she is interested in, could she speak to a recruitment advisor to see what else she might be suited to?

I have a sister who was in a similar position to your dd and she never achieved her fill potential some of it due to laziness also anxiety. She regrets it now as all the rest of us are well earning and she isn't.

There is a lot to be said for starting a role and working your way up but that takes time and in many industries you will be pipped to the post by people on graduate schemes who come in new eaning more than you. £1300 might seem a lot when the only bill you have is your phone but it doesn't stretch far if you have rent, food, a car or a kid and are saving for a deposit. I'm not saying she wants to or will be a receptionist forever (nothing wrong with it) but she is capable of more.

You might explain that pay is degree related so she may be happy now on a low wage job (and token rent), but in the real world it’s easier to progress to higher pay with a degree.

However, I suspect having to pay her % of full adult board and lodging might change her mind fast.

YABU to insist she goes to University but it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect her to pay her own way now she's decided to leave full time education.

If she'd cared she could have gone to university later. Not going to uni at 18/19 doesn't mean you can't go at 21 27 31 and beyond.

I was going to suggest an apprenticeship too. Are there any suitable employers near you? This way she can get a degree but still have a reasonable disposable income. If she is working as a hotel receptionist, her other option is to do a hospitality apprenticeship.

I definitely think you should charge her 25% of the household costs. You can then secretly save whatever you can afford from her contribution so you can then give it her back when she moves out or goes to university if she changes her mind.

The fact that you are now doing an OU degree is a reminder that people can still get an academic qualification at any age. University must seem like a less tempting option for people your daughter's age after all the restrictions during the pandemic. The difference is that the expansion in apprenticeships gives people more options. The increase in student rents and fees has made going 'away' to university a less desirable prospect for many people your daughter's age. The downside is that they don't get that 'total immersion' experience and acquire independence gradually. The upside is that they can remain in a familiar environment closer to family and friends.

Let her work for a year and then reconsider. I think that is a better option than pushing her to go and then for her to drop out later.
I know so many people who dropped out of university because they just weren't mature enough to make the most of the opportunity. Plenty of people go a year or two later and get on far better.

I am afraid you cannot insist, she is an adult. You could be really draconian and throw her out- but please do not even consider this. You have to work on gentle persuasion- you can argue she needs to preserve her options, you can continue to note that it is in her best interests to go etc. Is there an alternative where she could undertake a relevant apprenticeship? If she is bright she can get on to a really good one which can provide the right start without the debt that comes from a degree. University is not for everyone.

You can't really force her but what you've suggested ( a dose of reality) is the way to go imo