To ask why cheating is so wrong?

[Tandora]

Inspired by another thread, where people are emphatically insisting that no one should need an explanation for why cheating is so wrong.

AIBU to ask for one?

I mean I get that it’s horrible when someone does something behind your back; so the lying aspect of it- I see how that is wrong. But it’s more than that isn’t it? like it’s not just any old lie.. after all people tell lies all the time (including in relationships), yet it seems that cheating is considered almost the worst thing that you can do to someone. But why?

I get that if you’ve committed your life to someone , it’s a betrayal if they suddenly abandon ship for someone else, but why do people get so beyond upset about casual flings, where there’s no intention to leave? Or is it because they are afraid a fling might lead to abandonment?

It seems quite strange to me to be so wound up about what someone else does with their body, and to feel so entitled to control that…

Sooo… can someone explain it to me? I don’t really get the concept. Genuinely..

<Puts on hard hat and ducks for cover 😅>

But it's not. Throughout time, extra marital relationships have been everything from typical through to unacceptable depending on class, society and era. It's just not true that monogamy is and always has been the norm

It's deep rooted insecurity.

I don't understand this statement. The hurt I would feel about DP sleeping with someone else would not be about fear he would leave me. So why is it insecurity?

You're incorrect.
From a deontological ethical point of view, Adultery is breaking the SACRED VOW. It is indeed universally accepted across all cultures, timelines with minor exceptions as wrong, and is condemned.
It is in fact an explicit contractual agreement between the two parties, the ones breaking the contract are by default dishonest.

The debate will include wiggle room and whataboutery but it still doesn't change the accepted societal norm.
I'm stating my opinion on the facts as I see it, even though people may have plausible reasons or permission from the other to commit adultery.

I was cheated on, now being arrogant, the actual physical aspect I recovered from very quickly. However, the financial/home aftershock had devastating consequences for me personally.
I left within the hour post confession.
I will not tolerate any misdemeanors by the other party on the question of adultery and ultimately loyalty. Now if we come to an agreement between ourselves that's a different set of circumstances altogether.

This is only the case regarding women's adultery. Extra marital relations have been widely tolerated, even expected, in men (particularly men of means) until comparatively recently. It was just 'men being men', and a 'dignified' woman turned a blind eye.
There are also communities where polygamy is still legally and socially acceptable for men.

I think the institution of marriage and monogamy is seated in the union of rich and powerful dynasties, with benefiial unions throughout history.

Laws created to help spread religion, wealth and polictical power. The unions of the rich and powerful needed to be protected and marriage was the perfect solution for dynasties to continue.

I fear it is less about the emotional aspect, it arose from practicality of conquering in some way or another. Marriage became an institution a way of recognising different unions between countries, making it valid, important and respectable.

Laws have always been passed that benefited men, they understand the laws of ownership and the advantages of that.

That's a completely different debate and is not entirely untrue, however, that doesn't make the universal condemnation of Adultery untrue.
I don't tolerate Adultury from my friends and I will judge them initially if they ask for advice or help. Whichever party it happens to be.

I'm not saying it's easy to resist temptation or it isn't exciting, etc, etc.

This is it for me. I've been cheated on too and I won't lie, the pain was indescribable. But now having seen what other people in relationships have gone through wrt financial, sexual & physical abuse, I would gladly take cheating.

For some reason sex seems to be seen an unforgivable sin, while other things aren't. I wonder how much of it is actual lived pain and how much is the societal view of cheating = monstrous.

Well I mean all of that behaviour is shit, but it shouldn't be an either or. We shouldn't accept any of it. Maybe it is a sign of social conditioning that we have such low expectations of men in particular in relationships.

This idea that a woman is nothing without a man is very helpful to men isn't it?

Well exactly. Cheating doesn't have to be worse than those things to be unforgivable.

No, its the same debate. You say adultery is universally condemned and has been throughout history. I say women's adultery has been universally condemned while men's has been tolerated, which is an important distinction.
I think attitudes are not necessarily so fixed in real life either. I've known several people who had affairs and the people around them may have judged, but they didn't become the social pariah MN might lead one to believe they would.
If you have been cheated on or fear it, then you're part of a demographic that is going to have a particularly strong view. Many people in real life take a more nuanced view of other people's behaviour I think.

Odd question but I'll bite!

From your post it sounds like you thin it's ok as long as nobody gets hurt. I can sort of see how you'd reach that angle on things. But consider - what other problematic things would you be ok with your partner doing that you were expected to "never find out" about? You might find out that you eventually get hurt in other, more insidious ways.

When people start sneaking around, it's inevitable there will have to be lies eventually. Where they're going, what they're doing... how long before that becomes the norm in your relationship? What else might you not be able to trust them about?

I'm poly - for me that means I have "flings" (eww, I hate that word!) outside of my committed relationships. Despite what less-familiar people have said to me about my lifestyle, it does NOT prevent or exclude cheating from being a potential problem! If I started lying about how I was spending my time with another person, it would undermine everything that I value about my relationship with my primary partner, and I would consider that cheating.

A slightly related example - I have an understanding with another gentleman, but I broke it off after finding out that he and his partner have a mutual "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Maybe ok for some, but seemed just the wrong side of skeevy to me. However, they don't seem to have encountered many problems (that I know of), so it's possible that I'm the one being too moralistic here!

I do believe cheating is and has always been the norm for the male species and the unfortunate consequense for a female dependant on that male.

Through womens rights, men have had to concede certain powers, their fight against women is still strong and instilled from generations of men having all the power in relationships.

Their seems to be a fundamental fight between men and women, whether that has arisen through the birth or creation of marriage is another question.

Love lasts as long as it lasts, you cannot make someone love, respect, honour and obey someone who does not wish for the same contract.

There

@Hrpuffnstuff1 you are just wrong. Incorrect. Speaking untruths. However you want to put it. You are not right in this one no matter how limited your understanding. From Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, historic Chinese, African tribes, Islamic civilisations from the beginning of time until modern day, monogamy has been an elastic requirement

For me it's two things:

1. because when you have sex with someone you're 'having sex with everyone they've had sex with' - so by sleeping with someone else while you're sleeping with me, you are exposing me to a risk of disease I have not consented to. It's a safety violation.

2. because it's joining someone else's 'team' over mine. Assuming the cheat partner knows they are cheating with my spouse, and know I don't know, then it's allowing that person to think I'm a fool, pitiable, laughable, because you want to shag them. I often think the main thing in a relationship is, at bottom, you're on each other's side against all comers in a life that can often feel like a battle against the elements. To find out that your partner, your 'team', has been - to whatever extent - teaming up with their affair partner to deceive you, letting them feel they've got one up on you... that would hurt. Horribly.

To my knowledge I've never been cheated on. And I've always told my partner that if he needed to sleep with someone else (using barrier protection) then it wouldn't necessarily be a dealbreaker. But lying, sneaking around, and unsafe sex? Definitely a dealbreaker.

Having an affair is not something I want to involve myself with. That's because I know myself well enough to know it would be toxic to my mental health. My dh says the same. We also are lucky to have a good physical life after decades together. But I don't have a black and white view on the subject as I know everyone's situation is different abs who am I to judge.

For me it's that the social norm is monogamy (in theory, anyway - that clearly isn't true given how many people cheat).

So when I enter a relationship it's under the (sometimes unspoken) agreement we're agreeing to exclusively be with one another - cheating is breaking that agreement.

I have no issue whatsoever with the actual act of my partner sleeping with someone else (I'm not bothered about them sharing their body with someone else, although I know that is an issue for some people) as long as that was the agreement, I just don't want the parameters of our relationship shifting without mutual consent.

I dunno if that makes sense: I don't 'need' emotional/physical exclusivity and I'd be open to polyamory, so it's not the idea of my partner loving or fucking someone else that bothers me, I don't need to be the only one. But as that's the 'standard' and most relationships I've been in since my early 20s we've explicity agreed monogamy, I would expect that unless otherwise agreed.

5128gap No, its the same debate. You say adultery is universally condemned and has been throughout history. I say women's adultery has been universally condemned while men's has been tolerated, which is an important distinction.
I think attitudes are not necessarily so fixed in real life either. I've known several people who had affairs and the people around them may have judged, but they didn't become the social pariah MN might lead one to believe they would.
If you have been cheated on or fear it, then you're part of a demographic that is going to have a particularly strong view. Many people in real life take a more nuanced view of other people's behaviour I think.

I agree, and I'd further distinguish between cheating leading to treating people badly and cheating being dealt with well. No that either are great, but its surely worse when someone lets say a man cheats on the woman who has just given birth to his child and walks out and leaves her to raise that child on her own without any support, financial or otherwise. Or when the cheater gives someone a lifelong STD.

Other musings: theres not an awful lot of point in cheating men in the modern world. The value of men has been levelled up more because women can earn enough money now not to need them for support. So they need to provide other things than financial support to make them worthwhile having relationships with now. I think the amount of women you see posting on sites such as this saying they are happy with FWB and casual sex creates an impression that there are more women than there actually are who enjoy that sort of arrangement. I know of almost no-one in my social circle who does. I don't know of anyone at all who would indulge a man to give him sex on a fairly casual basis without any exclusivity. Nearly every woman I know is in a committed relationship and either married, working towards marriage or with strong committments to be exclusive.

Being in a relationship with a man who cheats is hugely damaging. I was almost unable to hold down my job when I was cheated on.

I wonder whether the OP has had her boundaries gradually eroded so often in this relationship that she no longer knows where they are any more? Strangely enough, when I was in a relationship (supposedly exclusive) with the ex boyfriend who cheated, I would have answered this question differently. But then I saw the damage that cheating and infidelity can cause, and I don't think its the glamorous, carefree thing that its often made out to be.

I've always had that view, my being cheated on has or had nothing to do with it.

However, I do agree, that people even myself have varying nuanced viewpoints on cheating.
DP cheated on her ex. We had a long heated discussion on morality, ethics, side effects, etc, etc. I've spent 30 yrs in hospitality- promotions- events management and managed not to cheat despite explicit and implied offers to do so, including a time arriving back home to find 2 women in my bed after a gig. My girlfriend at the time was downstairs.
I told them both to get dressed, go downstairs and join the after-party.
I'm not for turning, however, it doesn't mean I don't internally analyze the post-temptation situations. It also doesn't mean I don't give a listening ear to those who come for advice and support.

If we stick to the actual subject of cheating ( im all for both partners allowing each other to have different sexual partners if all has been agreed)

I think for many people that are cheated on its that they then dont feel like they were/are enough. And feeling like your not enough would be heartbreaking.

For me i would absolutely struggle with my DH having a one night stand, i would feel like couldn't he just come home and do that with me.

I would understand an affair though ( not that i would be happy about it) as i can see how easily it can happen starting first with the emotional side of it then moving to the physical side.

Its an interesting subject OP

Ooh I find this super interesting because for me the opposite would be true - a drunk one-off I'd be less bothered by because people like sex, make stupid decisions when they're drunk, but an emotional affair would involve more lying/having to acknowledge to themselves what was happening (versus a quick fuck that didn't kind of click in terms of how bad it was until it was over).

It's fascinating how differently people feel about the same things.

Yes! That's exactly what I mean. Your DP cheated on an ex, and on these threads the view would be that that made her a despicable person, once a cheat always a cheat and so on. Yet, even with your own attitude towards cheating, you clearly don't hold those intransient views towards your DP. And that attitude is more reflective of what I see in real life than the attitude on these threads that OP is describing.

Yes! That's exactly what I mean. Your DP cheated on an ex, and on these threads the view would be that that made her a despicable person, once a cheat always a cheat and so on. Yet, even with your own attitude towards cheating, you clearly don't hold those intransient views towards your DP. And that attitude is more reflective of what I see in real life than the attitude on these threads that OP is describing

Personally I don't have a black and white view of it when considering situations that happen to other people, but it would be devastating and relationship ending if it were to happen to ME.

😊

I have a friend who cheated on his ex with at least 6 people, and that's what we know of. Even in his mid 20's, he sat in a club in Rhodes confessing his sins crying.
He's 40 now I've stopped listening to his bullshit.😂

Personally, I think certain behaviors once internal permissions have been given then become habitual.
As for DP, we both have a past, and we both have external people who have tested the relationship. That's one thing that does annoy me, the lack of respect toward the relationship from other parties. In the end, you have to trust and be trustworthy.