to be offended by this T-shirt?

[parklife1]

I saw a post on social media today. It was about two gay men becoming fathers of twins via surrogate. There was a picture of the two men in "DAD" T-shirts. The pregnant surrogate stood in between them with a T-shirt saying "NOT THE MOMMA".

I'm not even against surrogacy perse, but I found this picture offensive.

I understood why she was wearing it - she wanted to display that she doesn't want to have a mothering role in the children's life.

I still think it's a slap in the face of women, we go through so much during pregnancy and labour. Giving birth can be life-threatening, I lost 2.1 litres of blood during my first birth and 1 litre of blood during my second birth.

Many women have postpartum depression after birth and the hormones are on a roller-coaster.

My body will be forever marked by giving birth (stretch marks, C-section scar, mum tum).

To me this picture is just offensive, because it sort of portrays women and our bodies as a commodity.

AIBU?

Nonsense. I feel the same about heterosexual people, and single people of any sexuality, as I do about two gay men 'using' a surrogate to obtain a baby.

Some of the lily livered little snowflakes on this site might be shocked to know MUMSnet is not only for mums.....'for parents'

Doesn't matter how you become a parent. Or if you are male.

Too many bored mumsnetters trying to paint a 'mother' as some kind of superior being! Worried about being erased, not needed....

@LoveSpringDaffs I had ivf. Criticising surrogacy doesn't offend me. Please don't worry about me!

No. Gay men can have a family. Like I say I know several who have adopted. They are great parents. I know one who had children with a woman before coming out.

What they shouldn't be able to do, what no one should be able to do, is rent a woman's body.

No one is against gay men being fathers - I imagine if you did a survey of everyone on this thread they would all be in favour of gay men becoming fathers via adoption. We are against the exploitation of women.

The mother is the person who is there when you’re sick, for your first period, for your first kiss, your first break up..

LOVE for the baby makes the parents. With respect, do NOT tell me who my mum is. I know.

There is something horrifically offensive on this thread, and it’s not the t-shirt.

"Here here"

*Hear hear

(Sorry, seen this three times today and something snapped in my brain.)

Nobody has a totally unfettered right to do what they like with their body, if it's against public policy. In the UK it's illegal to sell your organs for transplant into another person's body, for example. Many other countries have banned surrogacy. It's a great shame we haven't done the same.

What a load of shite!!!

This.

"We are against the exploitation of women."

Going by the OP the woman was happily posing with them. Not quite the same as financially desperate eastern europeans, no matter how much mental gynmanstics people on here try.

What about the concept of adoption?

Adoption is entirely different to surrogacy.

Adoption is a complex process with the child's needs firmly at the centre. Adoption is not about what the parents or prospective parents want, it's about the child and what is best for them.

Surrogacy is entirely about the wants of the commissioning parents. It ignores the needs of the child who is created with the express intention of removing it, usually at birth, from its mother.

Adoption is necessary, important and difficult. Surrogacy is an abhorrent practice, currently being normalised by social media and celebrity, and should be banned.

@SleeplessInEngland oops! I did wonder if I'd got that right but no edit button!

(That was in response to hear hear vs here here)

Leaving the surrogacy issue to one side, I think this is awful for the resulting child. No one can predict how this child will feel about how it came into existence, maybe it won’t be particularly affected, maybe it will but it’s up to that person how they wish their biological mother(/s if egg donation is involved) to be defined.

I know someone who has no issue with their adoption but I also know people who’ve grown up not knowing who their father was (for instance) and feel a keen loss of a part of their identity. I don’t think it’s right at all to try to define that relationship for someone else, particularly when I think it’s safe to presume none of the adults involved have any experience of it themselves.

it’s a pretty strong statement that leads me to suspect they will tell their child how to feel rather than listen to what they’re being told and that makes me quite sad.

Adoption has made great strides with recognising the importance to some about understanding their genetic backgrounds and feeling a connection to it, participants of surrogacy would do well to take note to support the children it creates.

I don't see why you need to be offended, this lady is only expressing herself in her own surrogacy situation and is not using it in the context of your birth experience.
As far as making women commodities I think it's comparative to females accepting sperm from donors.
Both in my opinion are very giving gestures that allow those unable to conceive to have the joy of parenthood.

I find surrogacy appalling regardless of whether the buyers are gay / straight /whatever. Its mostly women from poorer backgrounds that wind up surrogates for financial reasons (imo slightly similar to prostitution - buying a woman's services.)

Having a child is a privilege not a right. Sorry in advance if that offends anyone.

It depends how free that choice actually is.

I read an article about a woman from
Georgia (country not state) who had 10 surrogate babies in 1 year. She was married to a very wealthy man and didn't want to give birth again but wanted a large family.

They used 10 different surrogates and they had no involvement with that at all. She didn't even know their names. They paid £1000 to each one. She insisted that all surrogates already had at least one child. That money would have gone a long way to feeding their existing children.

Did those 10 women have a 'free' choice.

Don't be silly. There's a lot of gay fathers out there that manage to parent without resorting to the commercial exploitation of poor women's bodies.

Like many other posters on here, I am opposed to most surrogacy regardless of whether it's gay men or hetero couple that employ it.

(Also I'm not hetero, thanks.)

I've had IVF and placed dc for adoption while a SW neither of these actions are the same as surrogacy.
Adoption would be the same if the child was removed at birth and you had a contract drawn up where you agreed to pay the birth mother in exchange for them handing over the child.
But that is illegal due to it being child trafficking.

I don't think surrogacy should be legal regardless of the sexual orientation of the purchasers.

Nice try but no. Im against all the heterosexual couples that have used surrogates too.

My friend is a lesbian, she and her wife have 2 adopted children and are great parents. They are completely opposed to sperm donation (and surrogacy). They accept that being lesbians, they couldn’t have bio children, having no sperm and all that, because they are not entitled people. They are fantastic, loving, capable parents to their adopted children.

The pregnant surrogate presumably made an informed choice to do what she's doing, and was also happy to pose for the photo wearing the t-shirt.

So on that basis, YABU.

@Thebestwaytoscareatory those s

This

Well said